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Doki Doki Literature Club! downgrade

Actually, based on real-world Save Files, wouldn't Information Manipulation be an apt power to use to classify Save File manipulation?
 
Ricsi-viragosi said:
Here's the simple deal.

Real life save file mechanics would not fit Low 2-C standards, as they are neither higher dimensional compared to the game, nor are they uncountibly infinite universes. They are just a collection of facts, ifs, etc.

Doki Doki save files are outright shown not to contain everything either, .chr files for one are outside of the saves, and altering/deleting a file affects all saves.



You would need to provide proof each save file contains infinite universes for one to be Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
That sounds like Low 1-C rather than Low 2-C to me, uncountably infinite universes and higher dimensional spacetime.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
I don't understand what the main rebuttal of this reply is towards the argument I'm bringing, what do you mean of "the power as just using it and that's it"? how is that relevant to the points I'm bringing? At least elaborate it in simple, separated saves do not overwrite the main's, because they are causally separated where they can contradict one another.
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You claimed that "if it's just a causality manipulation then a savegame would [be] getting overwrited instead creating a new one, the older saves do not affected the newer ones when you interrupt them proves that they are causally disconnected" when this isn't the case, saves don't = to using causality manip in a way that other causality manip would overwrite it in any way. If you save, do thing A, load, do thing B, save in another file and load in the first one again then you're before doing thing A and B. Why would having done thing B and saved overwrite the first save at all like you say? That doesn't make any sense.

Saves are ways of setting up "what happens"/the causes & consequences around the timeline, it stands to reason that there can be many and that it's nonsense to claim what you did as a contradiction to that.
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Again, I fail to see how the second half of this sentence has any relevance to the current topic of conversation.
Click to expand...
Idk why you say this again, I asked you to explian better what you said, reply to the rest is unproductive.
GreatIskandar14045 said:
You don't seem to know the things you're talking about, if you're familiar with video editing then you'll know that's not true. The video is the file, I don't know why you differentiated it in the first place. You can cut the length of the video in half, add more in half, or an hour or two, or put effects, transitions, elements, etc, save it, it will ultimately transform the video itself from the original state, save as it, you will save it as a new video with a new name with the previous video remaining unchanged, most video editing apps tend to do this. If anything, your video/image analogies ironically supports savegames as timelines since like I said, they can works as duplications of the original.
Click to expand...
You fail to see the analogy, the video being the timeline doesn't go as in the video that one edits but the 4mp file. If you export what you did to the video editor then that creates another video (which doesn't matter to the analogy), save and save as do not create a new video, you cannot watch the saved files you have because they're not 4mp, they just have the set changes you did to the video really to be put in place. And if you erase the video the changes will still be there but empty and with an error.

Imagine you could create new videos by saving and saving as instantly (as that works) instead of happing to wait for the new exported to charge up to 100% as it's being created, that would be nuts and make nobody ever export videos again.
StrymULTRA said:
You're acting like they are thought.
Click to expand...
I made a blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

In-Universe Save Files

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

"Imagine you use Causality Manipulation to change up the world in a specific way."

"And that is essentially a save file; "something" that inside it can lead to a change in Causality/how_things_are"
StrymULTRA said:
And you don't know how videogames work since save files are indipendent from each other, and thus acting like different universes.
Click to expand...
Should I add drawings made on paint in the blog based on people being able to believe this? That's not me being mean, drawings help and I have done so before for extra clarification on other topics that I do take as complex, like Kirby.

I am genuinely confused of how anyone can read the blog and say that. Once again from the blog "And that is essentially a save file; "something" that inside it can lead to a change in Causality/how_things_are" Meaning that I do stuff, save and in what way would me doing anything before a second save not be indipendent from the first save? How and why? Whatever I do the first save remains its own thing, I can close the game, I can keep going on the game, I can make the second save anywhere and it doesn't matter. Loading the first save it's just going to chage things up as they were when I saved that file, indipendent from each other file and w/o meaing that it's its own universe. There was never a logic behind this, just misunderstanding.
 
I agree with the OP, there should be stronger evidence for save files being alternate timelines for 2-C/2-B to be given off of them.
Seol404 said:
In agreement with Eficient right now. The "universe" in DDLC is acknowledged in universe as being only a few lines of code that make up the back drops for locations, it's entirely unreasonable to act like Monika is rewriting universes when the game itself says otherwise.
Click to expand...

This is not what Eficiente was arguing. What you're arguing would make the verse, like, 8-B or something. And this argument's already been responded to by the note on DDLC's pages.
Note: Contrary to popular belief, the fictionality of the DDLC world doesn't make it only as big as it normally showed to be (akin to a theater only having the locations it showed to the audience but not more than what's shown, and with the things shown being fake), it has been referenced a few times that the DDLC characters exist in a universe/reality, this one showed to have space with dozens of stars in it and its own flow of time, things unrelated to the fake stage play-like dynamic the game was supposed to provide without Monika's interventions. The space with stars in it and the flow of time are shown and referenced in-game, but not as something that was meant to be explored in regular circumstances in the game as a date simulator, thus implying that there is no reason for the reality in DDLC has to be lesser than a normal universe (the fake aspects of it come from how the beings in it were programed and how events and things were constructed to organize a date simulator, without the reality in which everything is in being lesser for it).
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played the game in a while. But doesn't Monika remark that none of it is actually real (Including the universe like area at the end of the game) since it's all just files?
 
I believe that to be in the context of discovering the player's truer reality, which isn't really relevant for tiering because of reality equalization. It seems more like fourth-wall awareness than the areas literally not existing. Given that she talks about events in her life that happened years prior to the start of the game, talks about walking by hundreds of strangers every day, her experiences in middle school, it makes me think that there's actually existent stuff outside of what we see in the game.

You can read all of these lines here.
 
Seol404 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, I haven't played the game in a while. But doesn't Monika remark that none of it is actually real
Click to expand...
4th wall awareness, Monika literally knows that she is just a fictional character and knows that her world is not real, but it doesnt matter on the tier of the verse, if we were rate everything to be just fictional, literally every character would be 11-A on the tier
 
Problem is assumption, in this case, we immediately assume that the world in-game is actual universe, while the world could just be a pocket dimension the size of solar system for all we known
 
Vietthai96 said:
Problem is assumption, in this case, we immediately assume that the world in-game is actual universe, while the world could just be a pocket dimension the size of solar system for all we known
Click to expand...
By that logic, every verse would just be solar system size cuz u have no proof that it is a universe, every verse is Universal size by default unless proved otherwise
 
Vietthai96 said:
This is the actual problem, we could use this "hole" to assume every verse is universe size and be done with it
Click to expand...
Because we assume that the verse is similar to how IRL stuff works, if it wasnt due it, a planet destruction feat won't be 5-B cuz u have no proof that the Earth on the verse is Earth size
 
I worded and added that note in Monika's profile to better clarify our position over her stats, as all profiles should do if things get confusing and uncommon like this, but I have no strong attachment to the stats and if someone can make a good argument for them being false then good for that. It's just that as far as I understand them they're correct.
 
Eficiente said:
I worded and added that note in Monika's profile to better clarify our position over her stats, as all profiles should do if things get confusing and uncommon like this, but I have no strong attachment to the stats and if someone can make a good argument for them being false then good for that. It's just that as far as I understand them they're correct.
Click to expand...
So we nuke the 2-C and keep the low 2-C????
 
Also, technically speaking, we give tiers like Low 2-C, Low 1-C, and so on for affecting the entirety of a set of axes, even if those axes aren't infinite, or even universal in size. Meaning that, as long as Monika nukes the entire timeline, it doesn't matter if that timeline has galaxies or not.
 
Agnaa said:
Also, technically speaking, we give tiers like Low 2-C, Low 1-C, and so on for affecting the entirety of a set of axes, even if those axes aren't infinite, or even universal in size. Meaning that, as long as Monika nukes the entire timeline, it doesn't matter if that timeline has galaxies or not
Click to expand...
1. But if she nuke a timeline of room-sized dimension, she still low 2-C??
2. So what if she just nuke a moment in time, what tier is that: 3-A?????.
Sorry to bothering you with question
 
1. Under certain necessary circumstances to make it qualify, yeah.

2. A "moment of time" being a point of time, would be whatever amount of joules is required to destroy that space, plus some weird untierable hax.
 
So have Eficiente's suggestions been agreed to then?
 
I do not know. What is the votes tally so far?
 
Antvasima said:
I do not know. What is the votes tally so far?
Click to expand...
Agrees: 13 (Guardian_Doge, Rikimarox2, DaReaperMan, RethPo, Seol404, Ned_the_outer_god, Ricsi-viragosi, The_Wright_Way, Planck69, Everything12, TheLastStylebender, Agnaa, Alphaapexnep00)

Neutral: 6 (Infiniteday, Zencha9, manu_zarri, Confluctor, Vietthai96, GreatIskander14045)

Disagree: 1 (Bernkastelll)

The names in bold and italic are both staff and retired staff. Anyways, I believe this is enough for it to get applied.
 
Thank you for the summary.

Yes, that seems fine to apply then.
 
Bernkastelll said:
4th wall awareness, Monika literally knows that she is just a fictional character and knows that her world is not real, but it doesnt matter on the tier of the verse, if we were rate everything to be just fictional, literally every character would be 11-A on the tier
Click to expand...
Not exactly, most verses don't acknowledge in-universe that it is fictional in the way DDLC does.
 
Not suggesting you did, just refuting the point that everything would be 11-A by the logic that it's fictional. I know that your position isn't that. In order to avoid any further derailment, I'll abstain from the discussion unless directly asked.
 
Bernkastelll said:
It doesnt refute, literally, every fictional verse is 11-A if we use the logic of ''mOnIka kNowS tHaT sHe IS noT rEal''
Click to expand...
No, now you are misunderstanding my premise. Most fictional universes do not have an in-universe character acknowledge that the universe is merely code and nothing more. As Agnaa pointed out, Monika seems to refer to having experiences outside what we see in the game, so there likely is a material universe in DDLC. It is a bit absurd that you attempt to apply the argument I'm making to all fictional universes when it clearly does not apply.
 
Seol404 said:
No, now you are misunderstanding my premise. Most fictional universes do not have an in-universe character acknowledge that the universe is merely code and nothing more. As Agnaa pointed out, Monika seems to refer to having experiences outside what we see in the game, so there likely is a material universe in DDLC. It is a bit absurd that you attempt to apply the argument I'm making to all fictional universes when it clearly does not apply.
Click to expand...
Why did u even said it if I didnt said nothing about it? And I know that not all fictional verses do it, u dont need to point it
 
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