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Doki Doki Literature Club! downgrade

megaraptor said:
ok i will not comment on your orders
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Just a recommendation, and it may have been too harsh on my part. If there's any part of the blog you don't undestand you can ask and get to know why the downgrade happens, maybe I need to use a more clear wording and explanation there.
 
Not good replies, worse than I expected.

I'll reply later, or maybe tomorrow since I'm damn busy today. Worry not, I'll counter all of them in time.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Worry not, I'll counter all of them in time.
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If anyone is worry but they lack the ability to explain why they disagree then maybe that disagreement and belief of this being wrong comes out of necessity rather than as a logical conclusion. If so then that's something they need to improve.
 
Eficiente said:
If anyone is worry but they lack the ability to explain why they disagree then maybe that disagreement and belief of this being wrong comes out of necessity rather than as a logical conclusion. If so then that's something they need to improve.
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Don't know where this comes from if I said already that I'll counter them later when I have time, that's a blatantly wrong usage of argument of incredulity.
 
Neutral for now, leaning towards agree. I always personally found it odd the save files were considered alt timelines when the verse itself doesn't treat it as such.
 
Neutral i don't think this should apply to all verses that have save files and should be a case by case cenario
 
Undertale and Doki Doki save files are treated absolutely differently, on account of one being an in-verse power with only so many meta presumptions being allowed, while the other is a literal game that is only not 10-C because people wanted to equalize the level of reality or whatnot. (And they are outright timelines in Deltarune so that's an example for and one against)

To decide whether they are alternate timelines or not, you should look at this specific instance. TL;DR, no, they aren't.

The save files in Doki Doki are collections of ifs and references.

It contains the list of actions you've taken, but characters and items are taken from the code outside of the save files. That's why each save file can have contradictory versions of the same world (whose route you are on, what your poems were like, etc. - which Sayori acknowledges in the "happy" ending), have information carry on between savefiles (what dialogue you've already seen so that you can skip it - which Monika acknowledges when you try to skip her dialogue), while erasing something from the game (Sayori and co., pancakes, time, etc.) will cause a save file that has that character in it to become corrupted. They are not individual timelines on to themselves.


And there's another problem of treating saves as Low 2-C, even if they are snapshots of the world. Low 2-C is given for a timeline because a timeline contains uncountable infinite 3-A structures. A savefile at most would contain a single point in time. Monika erases time and the whole universe, which is implied to be "normal" from her perspective, so Low 2-C can still stay. But like all other things, her erasing that removes it from the game as a whole, not just that save file.
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
Don't know where this comes from if I said already that I'll counter them later when I have time, that's a blatantly wrong usage of argument of incredulity.
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I evaluated that saying that would be helpful given what's shown so far, if anything incredulity would come from your part to believe that out of all the people disagreeing (having commented or watching) none is unable to explain why they do so for reasons other than they feeling like it taken into consideration how they didn't explain their reasons and need someone else for that. There is such thing as making a deduction, and if I just so happen to be correct then I'm pointing out a very unhealthy and time-wasting practice for anyone to get better from that.

You already proclaimed you'll do that.
 
??

There is no mess here, neither "uncontrollable" situations are presented here since it goes normal like CRTs in common, heat arguments in upgrade/downgrade posts literally is damn normal, there is no need to move this into Staff only thread.
 
I believe it will take less time and be just as good to not reply to the things I said from the unrelated comments I quoted and instead promote a hypothetical wording that would justify the 2-C stat in a way that makes sense.
 
We will not move this thread into the staff forum. It is not important enough for that.

Anyway:

@Agnaa @Saikou_The_Lewd_King

I was asked to send a notification to you about this thread.
 
Eficiente said:
Those are nonsensical reasons. You're thinking the power as just using it and that's it, but that's not what Saves are, a Save is to be use that in 1 specific way, hence another needs to be used to use the power in another specific way w/o overwriting the first. The last thing you say proves nothing.
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I don't understand what the main rebuttal of this reply is towards the argument I'm bringing, what do you mean of "the power as just using it and that's it"? how is that relevant to the points I'm bringing? At least elaborate it in simple, separated saves do not overwrite the main's, because they are causally separated where they can contradict one another.

Eficiente said:
Who talks like this saying "causally disconnected" and "in quantum multiverse"? If it's vague and can be interpreted in many ways then you may be dooming others to maybe reply to what you meant or to grab all takes and reply to all of them, which I'm not going to do. You can say this with perfectly understandable words and I can reply to that.
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Again, I fail to see how the second half of this sentence has any relevance to the current topic of conversation.

Eficiente said:
This is incorrect. Save doesn't change the video, only the file of it you may be making. Save as doesn't create a new video, only another file of what you were making to it. The files you get out of save and save as do not have the video in them. You can't say that the files are the same as the videos because they're not, they're legit smaller because they have less stuff to it, they're just "the way in which the video was being changed" w/o being the video itself, otherwise you wouldn't need the video anymore and you could just delete it, which if you do those other files you made become useless.
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You don't seem to know the things you're talking about, if you're familiar with video editing then you'll know that's not true. The video is the file, I don't know why you differentiated it in the first place. You can cut the length of the video in half, add more in half, or an hour or two, or put effects, transitions, elements, etc, save it, it will ultimately transform the video itself from the original state, save as it, you will save it as a new video with a new name with the previous video remaining unchanged, most video editing apps tend to do this. If anything, your video/image analogies ironically supports savegames as timelines since like I said, they can works as duplications of the original.

Your arguments do not invalidate the savegames being timelines in the slightest, although Ricsi does brought good points on why they aren't. I'll stay neutral for now.
 
Eficiente said:
This is false, you're not understanding what you're talking about and yet you're talking anyway. If it was just random points in time then making something different along the way makes the argument fall. But good thing that was just a straw man and not the real thing.
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You're acting like they are thought.
Eficiente said:
Once again, you're not understanding what you're talking about. Restore doesn't mean it sends you to what you saved while leaving what you have but restoring what you saved on what you have, in the same timeline and with no multiverse.
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And you don't know how videogames work since save files are indipendent from each other, and thus acting like different universes.
Eficiente said:
This is also incorrect. If you delete the game itself then that screws over the saves. If I'm messing up a video (which I compared to doing stuff in a game) and feel like loading to many saves then those may be as many as I made and as different to each other as they may be, w/o doing anything to each other nor being timelines. Next to that your reason for them being timelines is just "they have to be".
Click to expand...
Because the game is the thing which contains all the save files, which are timelines. If I nuke the reality with all the timelines, the latter part is destroyed as well. I don't get why assuming that a game world is Low 2-C from default when it can be a functional multiverse with save files/timelines in it.
 
Yeah by all means, particularly talking in general, "game deletes all saves if you destroy it, so saves aren't universes" just doesn't work, the game is the verse, a total verse destruction will also destroy all the things that are compromised in it. My next comment can be quite disrespectful but that argument was quiet dumb.
 
I'm neutral for now, but leaning toward agree. But again i think Eficiente are too harsh, you should calm down Eficiente.

Anyway, the problem present here is how we interpret the whole save game thingy. So we have 2 way:
1. Each save is a timeline, with the same starting event but different storyline and outcome, and in turn make each of them a timeline on their own
2. Like some other member and OP himself, save is just a single point in time, so the whole save is just one universe with one starting point, with each save is just a single moment in time current, and each choice you make in game is just a causality manip, plot manip, fate manip the storyline to have the result which you desire, and Monika "remade" universe by destroy save file is just her using her causa manip, plot manip, etc.... to destroy one moment in time and re-direct the outcome of the game to her liking.

Well i need to sleep and working tomorrow, i will return way later, hope you guys be friendly at each others and don't stress up yourself
 
Well, of course I'm sure of that. Everything that has happened that goes on in the game is also stored in the save files. If you delete save files, of course everything that runs in the game inside the save files will also be deleted the same.

So you can't say that deleting save files isn't the same as deleting the timeline?

and one again, please can you be polite and soft?
 
I agree with the logic that we shouldn't just assume save files are separate timelines without in-verse evidence. If we use real-world logic then save files don't contain anywhere near every part of their game; they don't contain the environment or character models for one thing.
 
Here's the simple deal.

Real life save file mechanics would not fit Low 2-C standards, as they are neither higher dimensional compared to the game, nor are they uncountibly infinite universes. They are just a collection of facts, ifs, etc.

Doki Doki save files are outright shown not to contain everything either, .chr files for one are outside of the saves, and altering/deleting a file affects all saves.



You would need to provide proof each save file contains infinite universes for one to be Low 2-C.
 
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