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We should probably also have a tally of who agrees with what. Since not everyone who agrees with a downgrade, agrees with downgrading the same thing.
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Alien X downgrade :/
- Thread starter Zamasu_Chan
- Start date
- Status
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I agree with at least Low 2-C
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What’s the point of this? Everybody is this website agrees with the low 2-C downgrade why stall this further?
Nobody agrees with 2-B or 2-C and and the comparisons to other verse just seems in vain
Nobody agrees with 2-B or 2-C and and the comparisons to other verse just seems in vain
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Of the Chrono Navigator or Alien X scaling to the Navigator?
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We agree with the 2-B downgrade but we are still discussing the 2-C rating
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- Thread starter
- #246
That’s not true at all.
Anur Vladius is an aberration in the known universe. It’s like anti-life.So, one Celestialsapien pulled into Vladius’s grip would definitely perish. But, if a group of Celestialsapiens got together and were able to agree internally and externally to combat the planet, they would all be able to survive.
1 Celestialsapien will die to Vladius’s grip because any living thing that even goes near Anur Vladius automatically dies. No life is allowed on Anur Vladius at all. However if the Celestialsapiens go to Vladius as a big group they nullify it. If it was just strength in numbers and AP they would’ve died as a group. It’s clearly hax dude.
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The former was about Celestialsapiens using reality warping / power nullification to counter the Life absorption hax that make sense yes but the latter was clearly about them combining their AP and durability to survive a multiversal destruction, unless you are arguing that Celestialsapiens does have some kind of power null via reality warping then this should be added on AX profile
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- Thread starter
- #250
If they have to make a decision about it then no. We also don’t use multipliers like that in tier 2.
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Yes? They need to make a decision in order to combine theire AP durability to survive a multiversal attack if you think that it's done via Reality warping (Power Nullification) then Power null should be added on AX profile
Then how does it works?
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Not really. You’re pulling 2-C out of nowhere when even Firestorm said he made a mistake and they’d just be a lower degree of 2-B.
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Okay but it seems that Zamasu chan is trying to argue that Celestialsapiens can survive a multiversal destruction as a group via Reality warping (Power Nullification) so Idk
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However @Zamasu_Chan you still haven’t said how Eon could survive inside a time warp when those time warps were supposed to destroy all of existence. So really they are just an effect of the multiverse collapsing rather than the cause of it, meaning you have no proof of “death by a 1000 cuts”.
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- Thread starter
- #255
The fact that we’re scaling 1 celestialsapien compared to what an entire race can do.
Maybe we should just forget the statement all together. There’s too much farce surrounding this.
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Agreed like I said, I’m gonna nuke the life-force part anyways.
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So to summarize for a moment:
Atomic-X being low 2-C got yeeted and not countered further.
AX not having 2-B EE got countered by Andy and not further brought up (and should really have it’s own thread if there are still disagreements)
The Chrono Navigator seems to be somewhat of a 50/50 split between 2-B over time (if that exists in tier 2) and 2-B over time and as environmental destruction.
The strongest power statement seems to be where most people have an issue with but Andy said that based on the reality warping being strongest hax argument alone he wouldn’t give Alien X low 2-C but rather Low 2-C, possibly 2-B.
If you combine the Navigator being 2-B over time and Andy’s opinion on the hax argument then you get: Low 2-C, possibly 2-B over time.
Both sides seem to be willing to let the WoG from the Q&A go due to contradictions with canon.
Thus I’d like the other staff to comment again to see if their opinion remained the same after half of Zamasu’s CRT getting debunked.
Atomic-X being low 2-C got yeeted and not countered further.
AX not having 2-B EE got countered by Andy and not further brought up (and should really have it’s own thread if there are still disagreements)
The Chrono Navigator seems to be somewhat of a 50/50 split between 2-B over time (if that exists in tier 2) and 2-B over time and as environmental destruction.
The strongest power statement seems to be where most people have an issue with but Andy said that based on the reality warping being strongest hax argument alone he wouldn’t give Alien X low 2-C but rather Low 2-C, possibly 2-B.
If you combine the Navigator being 2-B over time and Andy’s opinion on the hax argument then you get: Low 2-C, possibly 2-B over time.
Both sides seem to be willing to let the WoG from the Q&A go due to contradictions with canon.
Thus I’d like the other staff to comment again to see if their opinion remained the same after half of Zamasu’s CRT getting debunked.
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No it didnt. Not a single person countered Atomic X scaling and the vast majority here are in agreement that he does scale.
Im pretty sure Giver and Daddysbrawl gave counter arguments against it after Andy gave input.
And as said before, I dont agree with this since "Possibly 2-B" wouldnt be coming from this. And to answer your earlier question to me, I did initially have no issue with scaling Alien X's hax above the hax of the weapons, but Zamasu gave a counter-point against this for not being able to scale different abilities.
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Straight up wrong, Ben was 11 when servantis made that statement.
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No? The context doesn’t even match up. Kevin and Ben didn’t even like eachother at that age, and Kevin said something about being a good friend shortly after.
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Zamasu didn't counter anymore after i argued kai wielding excalibur scaled to maltruant.
Seperate thread then and it seems brawl also misremembered the events.
Then i'm neutral on that. I'll await andy's further input regarding this.
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- Thread starter
- #262
Servantis making that statement when ben was 11 just makes the statement more shaky considering Ben couldn't transform into Alien X at the time.
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The ee statement was when ben was 11. Look it up.
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Not really just means he knows about a celestialsapien's abilities
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What’s more likely?
A: Servantis knowing of the powers of a being existing outside Time and Space, enough to create a rough measurement of their abilities, rivaling the intellect of a character who spent millions of years outside of time studying things like this, all before a Celestialsapien had even displayed such feats of power publicly (In fact, no Celestialsapien has even thought of using EE in the show, even when offended) , and instead of informing- I don’t know, the Cosmic authorities?- he takes matters into his own hands and tells an 11 year old child to take him down.
B: He was simply lying and exaggerating to manipulate gullible people into taking his side.
A: Servantis knowing of the powers of a being existing outside Time and Space, enough to create a rough measurement of their abilities, rivaling the intellect of a character who spent millions of years outside of time studying things like this, all before a Celestialsapien had even displayed such feats of power publicly (In fact, no Celestialsapien has even thought of using EE in the show, even when offended) , and instead of informing- I don’t know, the Cosmic authorities?- he takes matters into his own hands and tells an 11 year old child to take him down.
B: He was simply lying and exaggerating to manipulate gullible people into taking his side.
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After reading this,
I have to agree with Alien X being Low 2-C
Finally GL vs Ben 10 Death Battle aged well now on VSBW XD
I have to agree with Alien X being Low 2-C
Finally GL vs Ben 10 Death Battle aged well now on VSBW XD
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Yeah..... And? If an entire race can survive an infinite multiversal destruction then a single Celestialsapiens should be either at least 2-C (due to the green Lanterns rating for performing a similar feat) or he should be a lower degree of 2-B like the Green guy explained
You guys can do wherever you want tbh, if the 2-C or 2-B argument got rejected then yeah "at least Low 2-C" and as for the Chrono Navigator and EE I'm pretty neutral about this, but for Atomic x case he definitely doesn't scale to Alien x for obvious reasons
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^
I've said it earlier and saying it again. No one here brought a counter argument against Zamasu's point about Atomic-X scaling when doing otherwise makes no sense. The only recent point had to do with Kai and Excalibur and I fail to see what that point amounts to here.
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Just No? , the only argument for Atomic x scaling to Alien x is that "Maltruant did beat Atomic x because the creators doesn't know how to power scale therefore Atomic x scale to Alien x without any proof supporting this"
this isn't an enough argument even Zamasu chan argued for "High 5-A possibly low 2-C " for Atomic X case not only to mention that the creator statements are still a supporting evidence for that
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This is being very dishonest as thats not the case at all. The main argument for Atomic-X scaling is him being a blatant fusion of Alien X, which would in turn make him => Alien X. The Maltruant argument is a 2nd supporting point to this.
And im not seeing how them powerscaling badly means Zamasu's argument is wrong.
Probably doing that to make a comrpromise when we really shouldnt have to. Atomic-X not scaling is based off a very little basis as opposed to a big basis supporting him scaling.
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Yeah he is a fusion of Alien x but that doesn't mean he is stronger then Alien X while the visual feats alone shows otherwise, I mean this is literally a fusion between a character "A" and a Character "B" (who is infinitely weaker then the Character "A") , I'm pretty you need feats to say that the fusion between them would make them even above the Character "A" (since it's basically like a character"A" with a PL=1000 making a fusion with a character "B" with a PL=0,1 then in the end you get a character with a PL=100)
Now of course my arguments sounds bad but I'm just trying to give an idea of what is going to happen when a character A (who is infinitely stronger) fuse with a character B (who is infinitely weaker) would look like
I'm not saying that Zamasu arguments are completely wrong but I'm just saying that those arguments aren't enough.
He did a compromise because many people disagree with this, Atomic x not scaling is based on pure visual feats and credible writers statements
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A. Because Celestialsapiens are ruled by the same government so their powers are common knowledge + he’s a superngenius + Servantis outright states that Ben proved that he is the threat he made him out to be. Also Servantis IS part of the Cosmic authorities (unless you're solely talking about the Celestialsapiens as in beings who have cosmic power and are also part of the authorities, who probably won't care since I assume Azmuth got that CS DNA willingly), that's the entire point on why he sees it as his mission to take down Ben.
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I'm basically just waiting for Andy to respond and see if he has any new arguments. If not then I'm fine with the downgrade of Alien X to (At least) Low 2-C based on strongest hax not scaling to the Navigator. Everything else (all other supposed supporting evidence that AX isn't 2-B and the Navigator's tier itself) is still under discussion but some of it can probably be handled in a different thread.
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@Greenshifter
Don't we have At least 2-C for changing the multiverse on the low end if it was done as a group?
Don't we have At least 2-C for changing the multiverse on the low end if it was done as a group?
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Zamasu and I agreed on yeeting that WoG.
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@Greenshifter I'm referring to what's done in the show. Whether it was done as a group or not makes the high and low end.
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Art style? Zamasu's right, changing one aspect of reality isn't the same as changing all of it. This does give him multiversal range though.
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Can just downgrade him now to at least Low 2-C then we can discuss the other issues later?
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