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This is usually the case, yes. If not, glass cannons would be virtually nonexistent.Isn't it an incredibly common trope in fiction that your own powers exempt you from their effects?
Besides that, though. Eclipsa isn't in a constant dipping-down state and she certainly wasn't when she was frozen by Rhombulus. Even if dipping down provided that durability, she wouldn't have it if Moon decided she needed to die unless Moon had some kind of stroke and let her go into Mewberty form every time she unfroze her to try and kill her.
I'm not really sure what states Globgor has more durability than any princess, let alone the few princesses who can dip down.
Yes re-read the scene, she charged up her energy blast from Mewni and destroyed an alternate dimension@GiverOfThePeace I'm confused, did it state this in the guidebook?
What do you think should be done?I would appreciate if Dargoo is willing to clean up the verse.
For more evidence for spells from the wand being able to hurt the wand user (Other than the post from earlier about dimension busting) it states here in the Magic Book of Spells guidebook that even fodder spells like "Warnicorn Stampede" can hurt you or, at bare minimum mega lowball, effect you. "Be sure you point your wand away from yourself"This is usually the case, yes. If not, glass cannons would be virtually nonexistent.
In terms of some downgrades though, Star being Sub-Relativistic I think is incorrect. The only reason people say that, I believe, is because they think she's fast as teenage Marco and somehow teenage Marco is as fast as adult Marco which is just wrong. Unless I'm missing something, there's no reason to assume teen Marco keeps the same speed as adult Marco. His ripped adult body goes away when coming back to his home dimension, but why would he keep his speed as an teen? I think using the speed Star had awhile ago with her being as fast as her dad is more accurate.Dargoo:
Thank you for helping out. I appreciate it.
There should probably be another thread for that discussion. For now we should settle and conclude if the princesses have universal durability. I can't really prove if princesses are multiversal by themselves, unless some of the people from before came in.I have issues with the speed ratings for other reasons mentioned above, and think it should be removed from Hekapoo entirely.
For more evidence for spells from the wand being able to hurt the wand user (Other than the post from earlier about dimension busting) it states here in the Magic Book of Spells guidebook that even fodder spells like "Warnicorn Stampede" can hurt you or, at bare minimum mega lowball, effect you. "Be sure you point your wand away from yourself"
Meanwhile for a dimension busting blast, the wand user cannot choose who it can't be effected by since Skywynne went through the trouble of finding a planet in another dimension filled with barely any life to avoid casualties, but still killed all the worms living on that planet. So it's looking more and more that princesses that can dip down, have (at least) universal durability. I hope we're not gonna be cherry-picking when an attack should effect a princess or not either.
What I'm saying is that dipping down gives you universal durability, while using a spell in base can still hurt you. So it's not an anti-feat. The idea of dipping down giving you this durability makes sense since using magic from the wand is nothing compared to when you dip down.
It shows in the magic book of spells, in the actual show, "What to do if you destroy a universe". It shows this along with "What to do if you delete gravity". So I wouldn't say it has zero references and why would there be a lot? I don't think anyone in the show has the intention of destroying a universe, they usually want world domination or something.I'd say that as a durability feat, then, it's probably an outlier, if we're seriously saying she withstood being in the epicenter of that kind of spell. Like, we see zero references to spells on the level of this destruction in the show proper besides an off-handed comment/joke from Episode 1 and the actual fights between Mewberty Form individuals and equal adversaries has them specifically using far weaker spells with varying degrees of effectiveness. Tier 8 physicals are consistently a threat to Star even when she's dipping down.
Actually, after reading through that page carefully, that princess seems to be describing a planet and not a universe when she's calling it a "dimension". She describes destroying the dimension as ripping the earth in half, she describes the life in the dimension only relative to the planet she's on, etc etc. I think this was debated above as well.
Well, it certainly doesn't take "mental gymnastics" for the 'nuke from other dimension' bit considering that the feat is not described in detail nor is it a feat we get described as it happened. It's also entirely plausible based on previously understood powers wand-users has and has the benefit of allowing the feat to not me a massive outlier when compared to every other spell we see magic users who are dipping down cast barring extremely circumstantial spells like the Whispering Spell and Star merging Mewni/Earth. It's either something that doesn't line up with the more important story beats of the show or it's something that the wand is capable of but not really touched on as a specific spell in the show.No offensive, but sounds like headcanon considering the pages support my claim (universal durability) when you take the text at face value. Meanwhile the theory of Skywynne opening up a portal from mewni and then blowing up the dimension takes lot of assumptions and mental gymnastics to accept. In the next pages, she starts getting depressed from destroying the dimension by accident and only intended to split the planet. Why would she call the planet "Earth" and then proceed to call the planet Dimension 811? It takes more mental gymnastics for this to make any sense. Not to mention the many examples of when a dimension is named after an important location but yet you can that there's a lot more to the dimension that just that area. This isn't manga where people are mixing the word "World" and "Universe".
On the other hand there are, admittedly not directly provable, interpretations we can take of the feat that don't require her to have that kind of durability - such as the aforementioned firing the spell from a different dimension or that specific spell exempting the user from its destruction. However these interpretations are more consistent with what we see in the show proper with magic having occasionally absurd high ends that don't show up in direct fights.
I mean, I'm fine with saying that the Wand has spells that can do this, but the moment we're trying to say that any dipping-down user has Tier 2 durability that's kind of where it stops making sense with the show as a whole.I'd rather take the side with evidence and than the interpretations. These universal feats are consistent if you just take into account that not everyone in this is trying to destroy the universe, so the princesses are not gonna be doing those type of attacks. It's kinda easy for princesses to just simply not destroy where they live.
It would need to be in detail to prove your interpretation right, but for mine, the way the pages describe it, my claim makes more sense.Well, it certainly doesn't take "mental gymnastics" for the 'nuke from other dimension' bit considering that the feat is not described in detail nor is it a feat we get described as it happened.
Certainly, for the act of nuking the dimension.It would need to be in detail to prove your interpretation right, but for mine, the way the pages describe it, my claim makes more sense.
Tbh, I'm not even arguing for tier 2 anymore, I'm arguing for 3-A or High 3-A at this point. Like I said, I can't prove multiversal attacks. I'll take a "Varies between blah blah blah" but I'm not arguing for Tier 2 anymore. 3-A is provable (like I did before), meanwhile, as far as my knowledge goes, I can't prove Tier-2 for individuals.I mean, I'm fine with saying that the Wand has spells that can do this, but the moment we're trying to say that any dipping-down user has Tier 2 durability that's kind of where it stops making sense with the show as a whole.
Basically a flat "Tier 2" for dipping down I'd be against, but an extension of the "Varies between Tier 8 and Tier 2" I'd be fine for.
I understand what you're saying, but the sake of which assumption to take, we should take the side that assumes less. Using occam's razor, it would be less of an assumption to assume a princess dipping down could tank a Tier-3 attack than assuming Skywynne opened portal and shot a blast through it when the book doesn't state this. All it states is that she destroyed it.However I feel like the "tanking the attack" part of it is far more interpretive and could have involved any number of factors that maintain consistency.
I'll be fine for that too, but as far what has been proven, "Varies between Tier 8 and Tier 3" makes more sense currently, at least when it comes to individuals by themselves. I still think, imo, that Tier 2 is possible for individuals, I just can't prove it myself. Nonetheless, Tier 3 is the most consistent I believe.Basically a flat "Tier 2" for dipping down I'd be against, but an extension of the "Varies between Tier 8 and Tier 2" I'd be fine for.
If we want to be pedantic about it, occcam's razor would view "surviving the destruction of a universe" as something far more outrageous than "avoided the destruction hitting them", since we don't know either for certain due to this being an off-screen feat.Using occam's razor, it would be less of an assumption to assume a princess dipping down could tank a Tier-3 attack than assuming Skywynne opened portal and shot a blast through it when the book doesn't state this. All it states is that she destroyed it.
Occam's razor would that suggest we go with the simplest explanation possible. We know for a fact that Skywynne traveled to dimension 811, at least to blow up mountains, so we know stepped foot on it before. While it doesn't state that she was standing on the planet when she planned to split it in half, but it doesn't state she wasn't on it or that she on mewni. To think that the book meant that she stood on mewni, made a portal, then shot a beam at the planet, takes way more thinking and its more complicated than simply stating that she tanked the attack.If we want to be pedantic about it, occcam's razor would view "surviving the destruction of a universe" as something far more outrageous than "avoided the destruction hitting them", since we don't know either for certain due to this being an off-screen feat.
To be fair, I don't think we ever see a princess get hit by a blast that could destroy the universe because no one attempts that. Also, for users who dipped down, I don't believe we ever saw someone get hurt with visible wounds on them. The only times those princesses were in danger, when they're dipping down, is when an enemy hits them with a one shot ability that ignores durability, like soul sucking or those swords the solarian warriors used. So far, as far as anyone has presented, there hasn't been any contradictions to universal durability, which is needed to prove it's an outlier.That said we aren't looking at this feat in a vacuum. My point is that we see zero feats like this, durability wise, for top tier magic users in the show proper, with most direct fights peaking at Tier 8 with some extremely conditional spells peaking at Tier 2, spells that don't scale to durability anyways.
We know for a fact that Skywynne traveled to dimension 811, at least to blow up mountains, so we know stepped foot on it before. While it doesn't state that she was standing on the planet when she planned to split it in half, but it doesn't state she wasn't on it or that she on mewni. To think that the book meant that she stood on mewni, made a portal, then shot a beam at the planet, takes way more thinking and its more complicated than simply stating that she tanked the attack.
The only times those princesses were in danger, when they're dipping down, is when an enemy hits them with a one shot ability that ignores durability, like soul sucking or those swords the solarian warriors used. So far, as far as anyone has presented, there hasn't been any contradictions to universal durability, which is needed to prove it's an outlier.
Shows here that Skywynne deleted gravity and shows how some people are dead, but then herself can lasso the planet and spin it. So we know having magic can protect you from the conditions of space. So the idea of a princess existing and still being alive after a dimension is destroyed seems likely. If it takes more than just surviving in space to survive without living in a dimension or something, then let me know.we need to assume that she can withstand the initial blast and have all the associated powers they'd need to exist after an entire dimension is yeeted.
If we're talking Tier 2 then that'd include the destruction of spacetime. She'd need a lot more esoteric resistances than breathing in space to survive that.So we know having magic can protect you from the conditions of space. So the idea of a princess existing and still being alive after a dimension is destroyed seems likely. If it takes more than just surviving in space to survive without living in a dimension or something, then let me know.
Just talking Tier 3-A to High Tier 3-A. I still think Tier 2 is possible but it's not what I'm going for right now.If we're talking Tier 2 then that'd include the destruction of spacetime. She'd need a lot more esoteric resistances than breathing in space to survive that.
I mean go ahead, I already agreed with Dargoo on mostly everything. I just wanted to make the last point of princesses having (at least) Tier 3-A clear and it hasn't been decisively debunked. If my guidebook scans and arguments are gonna be dismissed anyway, then fine. I just think it was fair, consistent with the series, and at least a consideration for "Varies from Tier 8 to Tier 3" extension is only fair.Let's stop going around in circles here. Dargoo's conclusions can probably be applied at this point.