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It's not my fault people can't civilly handle disagreements. People need to stop going into debates assuming that their opinion is objectively correct and that the only way anyone can disagree is through ignorance.
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Persona General Revisions Part 1: Tiers and General Statistics
- Thread starter Solacis
- Start date
- Status
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That last setence is word by word what you do, I unironically have never seen such a lack of self-awareness in a thread
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This conversation is helping no one.
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I will drop it then
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Where is the proof, then?
I don't think anything of what he's posted so far proves it, it's only his assumptions built on top of the scans.
I don't think anything of what he's posted so far proves it, it's only his assumptions built on top of the scans.
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Well it is enough proof for literally everyone except you probably. Also You are technically also just assuming tbh so saying Solacis is assuming would be hypocritical on your part
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That doesn't mean it's proof. Critical analysis of statements is required. Of course someone who is already leaning towards upgrading a series they like will agree, that doesn't make the information accurate, if only makes the judgement of those people more biased.
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If you have enough people to upgrade you should instead of going around in circles with Matthew. That's what i reccomend
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Actually yes.
A person who isn't a fan of a verse and who isn't predisposed to already wanting to see their faves stronger than they are will provide more accurate value judgement then one who already goes into the thread with a prior-hand motivation / agenda. To only care for the opinions of "fans" creates echo chambers.
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If the reasons for the upgrades at hand are demonstrably innacurate / flawed then the upgrades shouldn't happen.
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I agree with Matt for this one. Especially when Solacis said "No they are not. Their distortions are caused by strong internal perceptions. The Palaces themselves reference the owner's entire cognition, which includes the knowledge of the size of the universe."
Like... what? Every character in Persona suddenly know the size of universe accurately. Just doesn't make sense.
Like... what? Every character in Persona suddenly know the size of universe accurately. Just doesn't make sense.
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yes but if that person doesn’t have much knowledge on the verse then they are likely wrong because each verse has their own interpretations on things just like what is happening with you now
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Yeah Im gonna do just that after all it’s like what 10 against 3?
Also are you seriously comparing the people in this wiki to flat earthers? omfg
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True, but in the matter of this thread it's blatant. A bunch of scans where provided and none of them prove that the Palaces are universal in size or that the Collective Unconscious is multiversal in size.
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It's more than just that, the Palaces are incredibly personal and they reflect particular problems that their creators are facing internally. They don't need to be the sizes of universes as the cognition that creates them is laser-focused on a particular aspect of their creators' psyche.
This is why Kamoshida's palace is ENTIRELY centered around his superiority complex and sexual predatory actions. It doesn't need to be anything other than a castle where he is King because that is solely what his mind reflects and desires.
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You realize that only 3 of you think that way while more than 10 people think otherwise including around 4 admins
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Quantity is irrelevant, what matters is the strength of the argument and the evidence that it is supported by. If the evidence itself is demonstrably faulty then everyone who agreed with the original argument is irrelevant because the argument they agreed to was false.
Objective reality doesn't care for one's subjective feelings.
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doesnt change the fact that when they go to the metaverse everything is the same as the real world with the exception of the palace itself. A good example of this would be sae’s palace and an even better example of this is Shido’s palace where literally the entire earth has been flooded and is in an apocalyptic state
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So can we start with the upgrades or?
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I agree with all of Matthew's arguments. Individual palaces doesn't seem universal sized based on the evidence provided.
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The rest of the Metaverse being a reflection of the real world more or less acurrately has nothing to do with the palaces themselves.
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Matt is saying that all of these aren’t correct and we still need Dark Grath’s Opinion
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Haven't you already gone through his arguments more than a thousand times though? And ooh, right.
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Well some people are starting to agree with me if this is what we want to talk about. I appreciate the support but I believe arguments and scans are more important.
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I mean solacis already provided alot of proof that shows these upgrades are good to go but matt and some others think otherwise.
Also Solacis and Dark Grath will likely start debating tomorrow so it would be wise to stop for now
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Matthew seems to make good arguments regarding why this should not be accepted, but as Dragonmasterxyz said, several of the people arguing about this need to please try their best to calm down and be respectful towards each other.
@Amelia_Lonelyheart @DarkGrath @DemonGodMitchAubin
Can you help us out here please?
@Amelia_Lonelyheart @DarkGrath @DemonGodMitchAubin
Can you help us out here please?
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Not really, I’m not that knowledgeable about it all, especially since I haven’t played Royal and I don’t want to get spoiled, sorry y’all
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- Thread starter
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Yeah, I take this back. I know for a fact I wouldn't have become so pissed off if Matt hadn't been such an obvious ass. Accusing me of dishonesty and deriding me as deluded while I only answered his points and requests.
He had a question, I answered. He asked for scans, I provided it. Then he proceeds to call me a liar because I said I addressed his query. Every reply from him then on has contained multiple accusations of dishonesty and unsubtle attempts to insult me.
While I will continue this debate tomorrow on more civil terms, I will not be apologizing for my earlier outburst.
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I am a bit concerned why Maki and Tatsuya weren't in the"affected" bullets but otherwise everything seems okay in my book.
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I used to be in the Persona revisions server on Discord before my main account got nuked and I had to make an alt. Can someone update me on what happened since then?
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they will most likely be discussed in a different thread
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I agree with Matt with some reservations. That’s not to say I think everything he said here is correct, I think the OP still makes some good arguments.
I’m still currently on vacation. Will comment my own argument against some of the points both Matt and the OP made when I get back, which will either be today or tomorrow.
I’m still currently on vacation. Will comment my own argument against some of the points both Matt and the OP made when I get back, which will either be today or tomorrow.
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As far as the whole universal-sized stuff goes at the moment, I am also going to agree with Matt.
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They don't need to be, but given the actual statements behind palaces, everything seems to point to them indeed being so.
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Judging from the discussion, it seems the debate is about whether or not Palaces are universes or not, right?
- Status
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