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Earthbound: General Revisions

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Chrisras

Chrisras

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For some reason, Jeff 's dura is Universal+ for tanking attacks from Giygas, however, Poo and Paula do the exact same feat, and Poo only as Universal, and Paula doesn't even has a possible higher durability, needless to say, that not even Ness has this. I remember reading that even if the attacks from a higher tier is extremely casual, you still get upgraded. So would this change the dura of the kids? (Nope.)

Also, I notice that at the end of the final battle, after the player defeats Giygas, we can clearly see that the kids bodies are completly destroyed (remember that the kids are in robot bodies now), and then their spirits come out and travel back to the future to unite with their original bodies (remember that the kids battled Giygas in the past). So, even if you destroy their robot bodies, their spirits can travel back where their original bodies are (even if their bodies are in a different time) and reunite with them. So would this grand them a limited Type 6 immortality? just some doubts. (yay)
 
The universal dura likely should be removed since it would likely be PIS/Outlier

Also, no if a character of a higher tier make a casual attack to a far weaker character then that character can't get a upgrade

Limited Immortality should be ok
 
I don't think the dura should be removed, after all, the kids still needed to resist a long time until all of Paula's prayers managed to contact all the people, and then they needed to wait until Paula's prayer stoped being absorbed by the darkness to interact with the player, and then they needed to wait until all of the player prayer damaged Giygas. needless to say, that Giygas was always attacking, so is not like the kids never recieved damage from him.

yay.
 
Then again, they were not in their original bodies, so their durabilty could have been upgraded in the process of being change into robots.

I remember reading that about the casual attack from an admin, but I don't remember in what thread.

For the normal kids like Jeff, Paula and Poo would be fine the Far higher, but Ness was someone that literally gain the power to stand up to Giygas, so thats my higher concern.
 
Agreed. More knowledgeable people in dura's regard would be awesome.

Most of those were comic gags or Power of deux ex machina stuff, here, the kids were preparing since the beginning to fight Giygas, so is not like they didn't know his power.

Ness still persisted fighting Giygas, even in his Low 2-C form. The only reasons why he isn't on Giygas Low 2-C tier is becuse he never hurt him actually, but that doesn't take the fact that he gain power especifically to confront him, so even if his AP is no match, he's still supposedly strong enough to resist a fight with him (Even then, the reason why he didn't hurt him was becuse of his non-corporeality, wich is still a rare argument, since Ness and Co. are capable of hitting Ghost and the such, and that they still manage to keep up with his full Omnipresence, wich I highly doubt some Lightspeed kids and one Semi could do, even if he was mindless)
 
Okay

Also since you said they can hit ghost then shouldn't something like "can harm intangible beings" be added to they profiles?
 
I think it should be added, since they needed to fight them to escape from threed.

Also, this would apply to the verse probably, since all the protas can fight Ghost and the such.
 
I would appreciate further community input regarding this thread.
 
I do not know much about Earthbound. I will ask ArbitraryNumbers and Darkanine to comment here.
 
Our Earthbound pages, in general, are huge messes that never seem to get revised despite all the revision threads about it. By the way, the Universal+ stuff is just a hold over from when Giygas was Low 2-C, we must've just forgot to scale it down.

I'm not really sure whether or not to consider this an outlier or not since Ness got a major upgrade before the battle, so it be weird to scale everyone to Ness. I suppose "Possibly 3-A" in spirit form for being able to "survive" Gigyas's attacks but being left pretty much incapacitated otherwise is okay. That, or "At least Town level, possibly far higher"
 
Wait, Giygas was downgraded to 3-A? shut, I didn't now that.

Can you tell me the thread were that happend? I don't remember if I commented there or not. I can recall Giygas being described as a treath to Space-Time in some text in the game, but I don't remember if it was in the Japanese original or in the translation.

Why that would only scale for the spirits forms? They needed to weaken him firts, by fighting him and then praying, and in that time, Giygas was already in his 3-A/L 2-C form, so is not like they just take the strongest attack at the end.
 
Yup, it was in the Japanese original. http://legendsoflocalization.com/earthbound/monkey-caves/

The cosmos is stated as being pretty much were both Space and Time coexist and travel

During the talk with Talah Rama, he states that the cosmos was "twisted" due to Giygas's plans, and that only when the chosen 4 meet, the cosmos will breath calmly once more.

So pretty much Giygas evil doings were putting in danger the Space-Time of the universe.

That, and the fact that this could be pretty much reafirm by all the times Giygas is described as being capable of "Destroying all the garbage of the universe" by Porky, or by the many instances were is stated that Giygas will "Put everything into eternal darkness", seems like is more than just physical, and more like absolutly everything in the universe.
 
I'm completely against scaling Jeff and the others to Giygas. It's a massive outlier, and them not being able to defeat Giygas with power alone and having to resort to prayer is kind of the whole point of the fight.

I can agree with Giygas being Low 2-C going by Chris' reasoning, but Jeff and the others definitely should not scale in durability. It doesn't matter how long they've endured it, Going from Town level to Universal durability by virtue of one fight that the party couldn't even win by normal means, without any significant powerup in between, should not happen.
 
Yeah in hindsight I'm against it too. Especially considering it would imply they're on Ness's level after he received a major upgrade and they received none.
 
K, them I guess a possible higher could be fine (?)

Since after all, the party was also fighting stronger enemies than the nuclear robots, so that could be justified.

But what about Ness? He has justification.
 
So Giygas should be upgraded to Low 2-C again, and the main characters to "Town level, possibly far higher"?
 
There really aren't many enemies who are supposedly that much stronger than the Nuclear Robots other than Giygas himself.
 
Considering their Town level rating comes from scaling off of random encounters (albeit, end game encounters), I think "possibly higher" is fine.
 
@Darkanine

Okay.
 
Darkanine said:
Considering their Town level rating comes from scaling off of random encounters (albeit, end game encounters), I think "possibly higher" is fine.
Click to expand...
I'm fine with this.

Also, the 7 and 8 Sanctuary Bosses are way stonger then the nuclear robots at the cave of past, so I think Ness should be straight 7-C.
 
Okay then. I guess most of this is settled. It seems the conclusions that we have are:

-Keep Giygas in his old Low 2-C rating.

-Durabilty's upgrade for the rest of the kids (Poo, Paula and Jeff) are not happening due to being PIS/Outlier (Jeff's highballed durability should be removed), however, a "possible higher" can be added to their tier due to the Nuclear Robots being just normal enemies, and the kids fighting stronger enemies in the cave can confirm that they are stonger then that.

-If what I said about the Sanctuary Bosses is correct, Ness's "Possibly" should be removed, and be straight 7-C, likely sharing the "possible higher", but again, only if it is agreed.

-"Can harm intangible beings" Could be added to their profiles, since they can hit Ghosts.

-Since no one argued against the limited Immortality 6 type for the kid, and at least Anonimoe stated it was fine, I guess can be added aswell.

If these get accepted, I also ask permission to be the one that can apply the changes, since I want to get this additions done quickly as possible, if there no problem with that.
 
I suppose that seems acceptable. What do you think Darkanine and ArbitraryNumbers?
 
I've been thinking about adding keys for Early-game Ness and Mid-game Ness and co. as well.

Early game Ness fights animals, injures sentient oak trees, and solos off multiple gang members at once. Seems like a solid 9-B to me.

Mid game Ness fights dinosaurs, taxis, numerous kinds of robots who should be on par with the Starmen, who in turn scale to Buzz Buzz's feat, which I calc'd a while back. So High 8-C.
 
Well, I suppose that it wouldn't hurt.
 
You can message Darkanine to ask him to comment here, if you wish.
 
I think that we already seem to have reached a conclusion regarding this subject.
 
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