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Mugen Souls Animations

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Antvasima asked me to make a thread so that other people can give their input on this issue.

The game has few feats. The strongest characters in the game have Planet level feats. That would be Chou-Chou in her original goddess form creating a planet and the final boss Vorgis being planet-sized and capable of shrinking and devouring one of the Seven Worlds, 7 planets which are 1/7 of the planet created by Chou-Chou.

The party can fight Vorgis and Deified Vorgis, the form he acquires when he absorbs the original power of Belleria, a character that was somehat comparable to Chou-Chou's original goddess form. This makes them Planet level.

These characters are scared of Vorgis and unsure of their chances against him prior to the final battle. Their only confidence comes from having Chou-Chou and Belleria with them, especially since Chou-Chou regained her goddess powers in time for the battle (powers which she doesn't use for the fight).

The problem comes from a few special attack animations. This three, Soul, Sandy and Sharuru (seen in this video at approximately 0:50, 1:06 and 3:29) and the strongest Peon Ball usable by Chou-Chou, the "Galaxy-sized Peon Ball" here)

There's also a possible speed feat at 0:15 by a character jumping from the ground past the planet's moon in a few seconds and returning while the explosion of the meteor they sent into the planet is still going on.

Additionally, Deified Vorgis has a special attack where he destroys multiple galaxies. Unfortunately, there's no footage around of it since it's pretty easy to kill him without giving him a chance to use it if you have a decent party.

None of the damage caused by these attacks, including the ones destroying the sun (Given Sun Goddess there appears to be only one sun close to to the Seven Worlds, as they seem to be close enough to likely be in the same solar system), the planet or galaxy they're in is ever displayed outside the battles, and no justification is given for that. One thing is craters and such minor collateral damage created by an attack dissappearing after the attack is over. Another very different thing is destroying the sun or the planet you're in multiple times in the same fight and those still being there after after the fight is over.

These are the two prior threads about Mugen Souls.

I am against using the attack animations for the verse, as the characters do not display this kind of feats in the story, are defeated by a Planet level character prior to the final fight and the attacks damage is contained to the animations themselves.
 
Question: Is the final villain strictly limited to Planet level or is it just a feat he does? Because a stronger characters best feat being lower than a weaker than a weaker characters feats is not by itself an argument for them being wrong. Freeza has the best on-screen feat in all of Dragon Ball, but we don't say it is an Outlier.
 
What makes this issue complicated is that we have allowed battle animation feats to be counted for various other verses, and when I asked the staff for input, we reached the conclusion that we should generally count such feats, unless they severely contradict the scale of the rest of the story, and that we should evaluate them on a case-by-case basis:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/786524
 
@Matthew Schroeder

It's a feat. The two Planet level feats are the best feats in the game, with some minor ones I listed in the first thread.
 
As for the characters planet never being destroyed with the attacks, that's also not an argument for downgrades. Its just a standard JRPG trope for special moves to seemingly transport characters to other environments where they do their attacks, and after they're done that background fades and they're back on the normal environment. Final Fantasy explains this as a literal transportation to another dimension, and given the way the attack is shown we can interpret the same thing here.
 
Final Fantasy might explain it that way, but there's only one pocket dimension user in this game, Chou-Chou, who has only unknowingly created one pocket dimension, the Mugen Field. No explanation is given to justify the attacks damage, and I don't agree with assuming the explanation given in other games applies to this one.
 
That is not my point, my point is that if a character hits a character, then they are suddenly transported to an outer space realm, and after a special move the background fades and they are back on Earth, the logical explanation is that dimension creation / transportation occurred.
 
Or it could be the JRPG trope that it's used so that you only need to make one stock animation regardless of where you're fighting.
 
LazyHunter said:
@Matthew Schroeder

It's a feat. The two Planet level feats are the best feats in the game, with some minor ones I listed in the first thread.
So... The various 4-C to 3-B feats don't exist? They actually outnumbered the 5-B feats. And from what you told me they seem to make contextual sense, like a Sun Goddess having a Star level feat.
 
LazyHunter said:
Or it could be the JRPG trope that it's used so that you only need to make one stock animation regardless of where you're fighting.
That only applies from a out of universe approach. In-Universe, there has to be an explanation from it. There's generally two ways to analyze a work of fiction: Knowing that it is a work of fiction, and treating it as its own real universe with its own rules. We quantify feats with calcs and ignore authorial intent most of the time, so we definitely go with the later approach.
 
There's no justification or explanation given in-universe for it. It's not even brought up at all.
 
That literally never stopped us from using attack animations for verses, be it in Dragon Quest, Persona, Fate Grand/Order, or Disgaea.

If a Street Fighter character does a MFTL feat, it's obviously stupid and nonsense, but if there's numerous feats ranging from 5-B to 3-C, it isn't absurd.
 
In addition, the game seems to be in a chibi gag style, so you shouldn't be taking it too seriously, just like Arale can pop the sun like a baloon and it'd be fine in the next chapter, and we still accept the feat.
 
Only the strongest characters have Planet level feats. The rest of the party is scared of the planet-sized Planet level character that initially defeated them. Chou-Chou moving a continent is something that never ceases to baffle and freak out the hero and/or demon lord of each world the first time they see it. A Demon Lord permanently altering the climate of a planet so that it's snowy all year round is considered impressive and "Demon Lord-like". A meteor capable of lifewiping a planet is considered a legitimate threat by a hero and the party until they fix up their ship to destroy it in a space battle.

There's zero reasons to consider the few attack animations above Planet level like Soul's, Sandy's and Sharuru's as actual feats given the level of power seen in the story; let alone the two galaxy level attacks that would be huge outliers anyway.
 
Well, I am personally uncertain how to properly gauge cases such as this.
 
Once again, you are mistaking highest shown feats as the only feats.

You think that because the villain has a 5-B feat, all the stronger feats from weaker characters are outliers, even though they outnumber the 5-B feat.

And what the writers write as impressive doesn't really matter in the face of feats. I doubt Pokemon writers think Pikachu can survive even a .9mm gunshot, but by feats he absolutely can.

Masashi Kishimoto thinks ninjas other than God-Tiers can't survive bullets, and that is irrelevant.
 
@Matthew Remember to keep being polite to LazyHunter. He is one of our best contributors.
 
I will look through all the attack animations in the franchise later (There are multiple games, he's only talking about one game).

Depending on the number of feats, we have to accept it.
 
The three strongest characters (Chou-Chou, Belleria and Vorgis) are Planet level because they can create planets, fight the previous character and devour planets while being planets-sized. These are the best feats in the story. Weaker characters are suitably impressed and intimidated by this level of feats and less.

How are we supposed to ignore all that just because a few characters have bigger special attacks that obviously cause no real damage to the environment?

Because discounting the two outliers that are the Peon Ball and Deified Vorgis' attack, you're left with three special attacks versus two real feats and everything else in the game pointing that characters are not capable of that level of power.
 
LazyHunter does have a good point.
 
Because there's numerous better feats?

Once again, if impressiveness mattered Kid Buu would be the first 5-B DBZ character.

Also the game is chibi.
 
The arguments here don't even match...

We go by the story, everything else is irrelevant. If the greatest feat in game was planet level than galaxy level aninations shouldn't be considered legit. Galaxy level is far beyond planet level, they aren't comparable.

However this has nothing to do with it being a JRPG. I'm not sure if I understand what you two are arguing about. LazyHunter is going by story, Matt is going by the fact that characters being impressed and intimidated by planet level feats doesn't mean they aren't capable of something more.
 
@Ven

Ye.

I am going by the fact that this is a JRPG, and it is standard in the genre to show feats and power by means of over the top attacks. And given the sheer number of these attacks, I think that the main villain's best feat being 5-B is irrelevant.

Zack Fair is written as 9-C for his death but has numerous feats of fighting Tier 5 and 4 people.
 
@Matthew Schroeder Well his best story feat is 5-b Later on at his strongest (he becomes his strongest by absorbing Another character) He has an attack animation according to lazy Hunter That would put him in the Multi Galaxy range
 
@LazyHunter

Ah thanks also I think the links got flipped Clicking on the first one leads to vorgis'S special attack and the second one leads to Defild vorgis Just letting you know
 
^

Thanks for the warning, it's already fixed.

@Matthew Schroeder

How would a 3-B feat not be inconsistent with all the other ones?
 
Okay, let's talk about the feats in the animations.

https://youtu.be/j946gOJ5974?t=15

^ Girl deflects a moon-sized meteor (KE of this would be insane)

https://youtu.be/j946gOJ5974?t=50

^ Guy slices multiple planets

https://youtu.be/j946gOJ5974?t=66

^ Girl fires a beam that destroys multiple planets and the sun

https://youtu.be/j946gOJ5974?t=209

^ Girl creates a black hole that sucks multiple planets

https://youtu.be/j946gOJ5974?t=254

^ What she does is a big ambiguous, but the spell's sigil is planet-sized and it appears to pull things in before causing a large explosion. Seems like a vortex-type thing.

https://youtu.be/j946gOJ5974?t=276

^ Galaxy level feat.

https://youtu.be/ZGvE_WpP3xA

^ Massively FTL+ speed and also planet-busting

https://youtu.be/ZGvE_WpP3xA?t=160

^ Pierces the planet with a dive-kick making it explode

https://youtu.be/ZGvE_WpP3xA?t=406

^ Straight up planet-busting energy beam

Frankly, these feats happen all the time.
 
@Matthew There's also Chou Chou Crushing a galaxy Via Symras Ultimate soul (her equivalent To Chou chous Peon ball) However I can't find a clip of it The clip I had got deleted
 
1: Except that's likely perspective and the game recurrent inconsistent size (such as planet-sized Vorgis being barely bigger than your ship, who can fly in planets without any issues). Seconds later you see it hit both the ground and the enemy and it's much smaller.

2: One of the 3 attacks I mentioned. None of the planets is 100% destroyed so we would need a calc to know the exact AP and if it goes past Planet level.

3: One of the 3 attacks I mentioned. Star level is contradicted by Planet level being the top of power shown in the story.

4: One of the attacks I mentioned. Same as 2.

5: Too vague, zero proof of the size of the sigil being related to the power of the attack. If a character makes a city-sized magic circle it doesn't automatically mean city level attack. Also, at best its destroying a planet, characters are already Planet level.

6: The Peon Ball's power doesn't depend on Chou-Chou, it's not her power, it depends on how many Shampurus you have. This power wouldn't scale to her or anyone else. Besides, as I mentioned it's a big outlier. Also check out the size the games gives you for that, the Ball and the galaxy are only a couple of AUs wide, which would make that "galaxy" smaller than our own solar system. Which hilariously makes sense given that the 7 World Galaxy in the story is closer to being a solar system with 1 sun and a spaceship that considers a speed of few thousands of km/h impossible but can still easily travel from planet to planet in a timely manner.

7: 2nd game, characters are already Planet level.

8: 2nd game, characters are already Planet level.

9: From the 2nd game so it's unrelated to the discussion of the stats in the 1st, and characters are already Planet level so it's not a higher feat at all.

The only new evidence it's from the 2nd game, and they are 3 Planet level attacks that aren't above the power levels demonstrated in story.
 
That would be a possible thing neither of us has seen so we can't discuss it. According to the wiki, the final boss of the 2nd game is Ace, the character from your last video, and the true final boss is Tioni. Likely the Awakened Tioni form mentioned on the wiki, because her special attack in her base form is nothing special. She's a goddess of destruction like Belleria, so I'd hazard a guess that in terms of story they are comparable.
 
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