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Lavos vs Madoka (Time Devourer vs Godoka)

The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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Because I'm still mad at SD for downgrading the Pseudos without us coming to a concession, this match was made, and I will be debating...ovo

Space flea fights loli. Which wins?

TimeDevourer
Goddess madoka by lyra kotto-d5ip5rn
 
I need to sleep now so I won't answer properly. But I don't see Conceptual Manipulation on Lavos's profile so at worst that's inconclusive. They'll likely beat the hell out of each other throughout the multiverse without a real winner.
 
If i'm reading Lavos's profile correctly, wiping it out from the entirety of the multiverse throughout all points of time and space wouldn't kill it, right? Or this applies only when he is wiped out from a single timeline?

Also, is Lavos acausal based on the old or the new definition?
 
Lavos is still acausal, though the others are time paradox immune rather than acausal.
 
Then I think that for now i'll confirm my vote for inconclusive. Maybe she could do something with conceptual manipulation to incapacitate Lavos or something along those lines, but idk how this would interact with the acausality.

In the meantime, Lavos just can't kill her. Another enemy to fight forever i guess (because a multiverse worth of witches wasn't enough)
 
Shouldn't I be the angry one for you upgrading without concession to begin with? ovo And I thought we did come to a concession, as you had nothing more to prove your point?

Anyways, what level of acausality are we talking here, because from what I understand Lavos seems to have 3-D scale acausaulity rather than 4-D, which is a big difference.

So Madoka wins via incapitating (her concept mainpulation is not enough to kill him).
 
Lavos' Acausality is 4-D encompassing the infinite timelines in CT. He also exists in the Darkness Beyond Time, which IIRC is not within any of said Timelines.

Though I want to vote Madoka because really, why would I choose that horrible thing over the Goddess?
 
According to Azzy, erasing a concept from the multiverse doesn't mean that you can straight up erase another 2-A conceptually. But it could incapacitate Lavos. Maybe.

Welcome to the dark side
 
Well, If that's what Azzy said, then I probably can't say for sure. For One, Serge with the Chrono Cross who put the thing down may be High 2-A. Going by the same reasoning used for Madoka's Conceptual Manip, we most likely can't go assuming that TD would be able to just absorb her either, and there's Madoka's immortality to consider as well.

Not sure. I'd like to go with SD's data reasoning but considering that if you try to beat TD with anything other than using the Chrono Cross and all those shenanigans you get hit in the face with a Bad Ending, I'll wait for some more input on this one.
 
Point in that Bad Ending being that, if you "kill it" without the Chrono Cross and freeing Schala with it, the thing will just abuse it's... Not... dying... powers to replace itself with another one of himself, then it resumes its agenda of eating all time and space (hence the Bad Ending). Considering endless timelines... Madoka would be stuck killing it over and over and over, if we went by the Incapacitation logic.

That's why I brought the question if she could do something with her Concept Manip that could put it down for real.
 
Well even if we don't count the concept manipulation as hax but only as a regular attack, it does have Multiversal+ AoE. Maybe this could help her dealing with the infinite number of replacements?
 
Not sure Lavos would kindly stay put reflecting on the wrong deeds of its Life while Madoka tears through an endless ammount of it.
 
It probably wouldn't. But does Lavos have a way to prevent it? Madoka does have her type 8 and 9 immortality to survive attacks unable to destroy her concept.
 
Well, they are equal in a number of things so the fight definitely happens, but Lavos' probably has no way of killing Madoka either. His best options would be either try to Memory Manipulate her - though I'm uncertain if it could pull a Homura Rebellion here, all things and context considered - or Absorption.

While Madoka's best bet as I see it would be some Conceptual powers.

Like I said above however, if we can't say for sure that Madoka would pull a full-on erasure against it, we can't say for sure that it would absorb her either. Though I still believe she might actually pull it off.
 
Dunno if it would be able to manipulate her memories as all her forms are resistant to mindscrew. But Homura did it so maybe?

Absorption probably wouldn't work due to the fact that Madoka uses manifestation bodies, so Lavos would be actually absorbing an avatar.
 
Then for me it's either

A. Can't say for sure who wins, go for Inconclusive because of some of the reasons above.

B. Madoka actually pulls it because of the other reasons above.

I'll wait for more input before I'm convinced towards one way or another.
 
Oh shit. Is Lavos actually losing for once? Have I been playing Civ 5 so much that i reached the end of the world in real life?

But yeah by Fate's words kinda siding with Madoka slightly

Also Fate is a definite traitor. The best kind.
 
"I have failed you, Fate. I have failed you."

"I should have known that your Pokemons, Digimons and Lavos were plotting to take over."

"Fate! Akuhomura is evil and so is Godoka!"

"FROM MY POINT OF VIEW THE DEVOURERS ARE EVIL!"

"THEN YOU ARE LOST."
 
Now that I think about it, since Madoka is omnipresent and she kinda has manifestation bodies throughout all the universes (they usually purify the Soul Gems). Would it be too much of a stretch to say that she can fight all the versions of Lavos at once?

I'm legitimately asking because I don't know.
 
Dunno. Maybe? (Also speed should probably be equalized here otherwise it's Nigh-Omnipresent vs Immeasurable. I just noticed).
 
To this day, I have yet to understand if omnipresent vs immeasurable is a blitz O.O

It seems that nobody can reach an agreement about it.
 
I'm fairly sure if someone is Omnipresent in the same level of existence as an Immeasurable, they blitz.
 
Not really. Her wish was to erase the concept of witches, but it doesn't mean that she is limited only to that particular one.

SD explained it in this blog
 
Just looked through it and...it kinda is. It's is massive extrapolation to say she can control a plethora of concepts through a very specific wish.
 
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