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Bowser vs. Eggman, again (Grace?)

Soupywolf5

Soupywolf5

Any/All
6,127
885
Because I want to watch the world burn Also my last two Mario versus threads were ruined

Dr. Eggman vs. Bowser

Grand Star empowered Bowser is being used, Eggman has all his machines/inventions besides the 2-C ones, Speed is equalized, Both are fully equipped

Nintendo of America's CEO: 16

Pingas You're dated: 16

Ness: 2
 
Time Eater is the only thing that can match Low 2-C Bowser here (and it requires two Eggmen so)

Anyways, Bowser has way more hax abilities and I don't got time to list them all but also resists most of Eggman's as well.

But we'll see what gets brought up.
 
What changed from last one? Because otherwise I just say, also OP said all inventions, so Time Eater is included here otherwise it wouldn't be fair, and Eggman used the Time Eater alone by himself to get his past self

Eggrobo's can pilot the other machines to use their haxes on them

Also Bowser doesn't resists the haxes in the potency of Eggman's, he just either mindhaxes him with his AoE beam with planetary range and potency, suck his life out, or turns him into a card with planetary range transmutation

Also with the forum move this mean this thread can't be added -.-
 
Ehh, Bowser has a couple of ways to win, plus ressurection. It honestly depands. If Eggman is using the Time Eater, you can say he'll start with his abilities.
 
Eggman has all inventions, meaning EggRobo's just pilote other machines, so sure, Eggman does use the Time Eater, while a EggRobo uses another or another or another, plus ressurection won't mean much when he won't be winning via AP

So I ask again, what does he have that's new?
 
Eggman technally should only be able to use one EggRobo, which doesn't matter all too much when he one-shots them. Ressurection does matter, if Bowser dies via durability negating hax. If he gets incapped, Retry Clock or Earlier Times can reverse the fight with Bowser having slight prior knowledge. Stuff like BFR is useless since Bowser can go back in time. He resists elements, transmutation. The only thing I really can see working is mind control, but as explained above, Earlier Times and Retry Clock can undo it. And I'm not sure when Eggman will even use this. If Eggman has a hoard of machines, Bowser can easily just inhale them via his vaccume ability. He's done this to enemies before to get the upper hand. As well as negate items/powers being used. Bowser has multi-solar system ranged transmutation, Eggman ain't getting passed that. He also has the Star Rod, he can literally just wish away Eggman and make himself win. He doesn't even need to say his wish. Voting Bowser.
 
First things first this match won't be added because it was made after the forum move shit, so I guess votes and all won't really matter

Second, why he would he only be able to use one? They are mass factured, one-shooting them is meangless because they are disposable, the problem is that they can use all their hax while Eggman controls the **** out of time with the Time Eater, like slowing it down that he is snail movement, and you yourself said that in those moments matter alot, Bowser has no counter too most time manipulation, and Time Eater entire thing is that

Retry Clock isn't ressurection, it needs to be activated, he can't activate it if he is mindhaxed, the game even gives you the option to use it or not, plus even in BIS he couldn't use it after being crushed, or locked into a safe, so It seems it only works if he gets knocked out, or else he would have used It on those times

Never argued BFR, it was already argued in the original thread it wouldn't work

Eggman would turn the entire Earth into a card, that bypasses Bowser transmutation resistance

Nah, he can't activate retry clock if he is mindhaxed, as proved above

Eggrobo's can use the machines while Eggman fights Bowser

One, vacumm doesn't work with big enemies as show multiple times in BIS, two vacuming doesn't kill enemies, Mario and Luigi did, they can literaly just kill Bowser from the inside, which is very easily done since tons of areas of his body doesn't have guards, only the brain has it

Literaly when has Bowser transmutated a entire multi-solar system? I want proof because that sounds sus, plus Eggman also has things that beat him in one-shoot, so that wouldn't mean much

The Star Rod is 2-B, so I don't think he can be used here isn't it?

Listing powers isn't a argument, Metal can just Chaos Control Eggman back to avoid BFR, and sealing can be dodged and all, plus his machines can act on their own and are unaffected by it, they can just hax Bowser while he is gloating, make Bowser free Eggman, them kill him

The main thing that gives Eggman the W is his Time Manipulation, down to slow down or stopping time, which Bowser can't counter, giving Eggman the opportunity to give him time to do anything
 
Bowser telepathically tells Eggman he's fat, the insult makes Eggman so upset he leaves to go cry in bed giving Bowser the win. Jokes aside I'll give my thoughts on this later (Kinda leaning on this being inconclusive atm).
 
Unoriginal Memes said:
The Star Rod being 2-B was rejected iirc, so it's still fair game.
Click to expand...
That is troblesome, but I think the time manipulation could give ol Egghead more than enough time to do anything before Bowser makes his wish
 
Anyway, I guess I vote Bowser or inconclusive for the reasons present in this thread as well as the last one. Although I would like to be put down for incon for the time being.

I still don't really see the point of this thread, as nothing will change.
 
Where is it shown Eggrobo's can use the machines? And with what skill level can they even operate them anyways?

Why are we giving Eggman shit like Metal and his Robos anyways while Bowser is on his lonesome? This would be much better if we also allowed Bowser his own minions to help him fight.

As for time stopping, in TTYD Bowser is listed as having a resistance to the time stop in that game IIRC.

Chaos Control has never brought someone back fron a BFR tho? Only induce BFR and assuming it can reverse that effect seems kinda baseless. Maybe show proof he can even do that? If we're making up shit they can do with their powers I can be here all day.

He "would" turn the planet into a card. But he didn't? Plus can't Bowser just power null that attack? What's stopping him fron doing that? Or mulling Metal's attempt? What's stopping Bowser from petrifying everything in his vicinity including Metal or Eggman himself? What's stopping Bowser from just taking control of Eggman's army? They're robots, but they can be affected by Rouge's empath manip and thus can be affected by mind hax. Bowser would've willed entire MSS-sized dimensions of people into his subservient minions, so if we can use Eggman's "would have" argument we can do so here.

Plus, "sealing can be dodged" like the mind control gun that shot a projectile can't be either? Given Bowser's teleportation and agility?

I believe there's way too many variables here and either one can simply use a hax move to win the battle. So I'll say Incon
 
3&K, the entire Knuckles story is Eggrobo's using Eggman's machines

Because OP said all inventions for Eggman, they are all inventions

I would like to see it, because I am doubting It

Rivals 2, Shadow and Metal were locked in Ifrit's dimension, and Shadow used Chaos Control to return, know more about your opponent before making baseless accusations

Because he was stopped by Sonic and Co, not because he can't, his entire plan was that and he almost succeded, pretty sure Bowser can't just thought based power-null literaly everything, plus time slow for blth of those, plus being OOC

That's not how it works, just because some character can do something doesn't mean your character can, Rouge affecting some Egg Paws is a feat for her, Bowser can't mindhax robots without any feats because some other unrelated character can make some Egg Paws distracted, not even mindhax

The "mind control gun" has planetary range, since it was going to mindhax, unless Bowser immediately jumps off the planet he can't, "other character can do thing so my character can do so" isn't a argument
 
Btw all equipment here means Bowser does have his summons (In case that wasn't clear)
 
No, Rouge effecting them with simple mind hax (which it is and it's supernatural power, you can't claim otherwise) while Bowser's mind hax was stated to be able to affect those citizens in those realms of MSS size is definitely a better display, thus they can be effected. Confusion is also listed as an effect of vertigo and is listed as mind manip on this site.

Shadow used BFR to get out, but when has Metal used it in character? And you have the gall to even say "OOC" like the entirety of your argument is picking out single-time instances of hax for Eggman's side and using them like they're completely in character? Sure, bud. Also, Shadow was able to telport himself out of it, but the point is that Metal has no destination for where the hell Eggman was BFR'd in this scenario. He's in the battlefield while Eggman was BFR'd and or/sealed. Metal has no displayed ability to be able to pull someone out of a BFR that he himself is not part of like Shadow was. If Chaos Control has showings displaying it has the ability to teleport other objects to a person based on just the thought of that person or thing alone then I'll concede to this point.

As for the proof on mind hax, the direct quotes are here:

"To help him accomplish this, he plans to convert the residents of the painting world into monsters as well. If nothing is done, all those monsters will soon begin to overflow from inside the painting." - Super Mario 64 Instruction Booklet

"Princess Toadstool and Toad are missing, too. Bowser must have taken them and sealed them inside the painting. Unless Mario recovers the Power Stars immediately, the inhabitants of this world will become Bowser's army." - Super Mario 64 Instruction Booklet

"Being imprisoned in these walls can drive a fungus crazy. When I really start to freak out, I think to myself, "Well, I'm going to be here for a while, so I might as well stare at the fish. They are oddly hypnotic." Then I actually start to like being captured............Aaaguugh! IT'S MADNESS! I've got to snap out of this! You have to free us before we're all completely brainwashed! ...But for now, why don't you gaze at the fish with me. You look tense. Come relax." - Toad

Interestung to note that it says Mario has to collect the Power Stars immediately or the residents will be turned, which might imply the Power Stars, and thus, the Grand Stars which are more powerful Power Stars, give those who wield them the power to undo corruptiom/mind control as well. Bowser wields a Grand Star here.

Also, Bowser has a very in-character ability to shoot fireballs, and he has had fireballs that were able to phase through solid matter in 3D Land, so that could be a form of durability negation he can use to directly hit Eggman and one-shot
 
In Paper Mario, when fighting a Star Rod Bowser, he laughs off the Time Out ability which freezes time. So time manipulation doesn't work in this battle.
 
No, that's not how it works, there's isn't a thing like "simple" hax, that doesn't exist, hax is hax and is based on feats, Rouge's worked on robots, Bowser's didn't, therefore you can't scale mindhaxes, here in the wikia affecting robots only happens if your mindhax shows feats, Rouge doing it does not make it work because both are ""mindhax"", show actual proof Bowser can mindhax robots, plus if you are playing this random scaling game we can say it just worked on Egg Paws, so it can't work on others

I haven't insulted you once for anything you said yet you are already throwing shoots at me, first thing first bad analogy and comparassion, I say OIC when it is OOC, everything I am saying Eggman has done, second Metal hasn't used Chaos Control to escape BFR because he never needed to, Metal literaly has Shadow's data and has used Chaos Control before

Uh yes, Chaos Control has been able to teleport others before, plus I ain't saying Metal is just going to teleport Eggman out of there, I am saying Metal will teleport to Eggman and back out, and as seen in Rivals 2 Eggman can comunicarei with Metal, even when they are in separate dimensions, he can just tell him where to pick him up, since that's pretty much what happened in Rivals 2 but reversed

Cool quotes bro, still doesn't change the facts Bowser can't mindhax machines and Eggman's potency bypasses that resistance

Eggman is too smart to just let himself get hit like that, plus he has probabilty manipulation, which makes attacks more likely to miss him
 
DatOneWeeb said:
In Paper Mario, when fighting a Star Rod Bowser, he laughs off the Time Out ability which freezes time. So time manipulation doesn't work in this battle.
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, Bowser has the Star Rod

Good thing I renember Sonic will soon get time manipulation resistance, and the Time Eater can time manip him :)
 
To be fair I can argue the same thing since Timeless Voids were negged, Mario moved inside the void and can affect Bowser without the Star Rod.
 
I don't think moving between a timeless void would grant you time manipulation resistance iirc, but I could be wrong
 
The burden of proof is still on you. Robots being affected by mind hax means they're susceptible to mind hax in general. Unless said robots inherently rresisted mind hax before , but even then Rouge's hax isn't at all on Bowser's level. I don't see what's quite so hard to understand. Besides, if we're being technical, Pink Bob-Ombs were part of the inhabitants of worlds which are literally just sentient Mechanical Bombs, Snow Men and Flowers were part of these worlds, and even shit like Boos and machines that scoop Mario up and fling him backwards.

Metal has some of Shadow's data and literally can't act of his own free will as recently as those Rivals games. But I'll give you the Eggman keeping a connection with him between dimensions thing. So BFR won't work. But why won't Sealing work again?

And what exactly is Eggman"s potency here? The only mind hax I recall from his was a projectile-shooting gun that only worked on Tails? Actually proove your statement there because from where I'm standing that's not an argument at all.

Time Eater only time manip'ed Sonic via time travel crap IIRC so I dunno about that. It controls "time" as a statement but then Grand Stars can manipulate time and space, Bowser can create a realm where the concept of speed can vary depending on where you enter it, and Bowser had that "warping through time and space" quote from New Island.

Yeah and everything I've said Bowser has done?
 
That's not how buurden of proof works, I don't need to prove a negative, you need to prove you can scale Rouge to Bowser, you are literaly going "this character I find weak, this character I find strong, so strong character has better hax", robots already resist mindhax by not having a mind, that's the wikia standard, you only mindhax robots if you have feats for mindhaxing robots, which Rouge has and Bowser doesn't, plus this isn't about who's hax is better, but that you can't scale them, Mario creatures being weird isn't proof he can mindhax machines

Heck, it's literaly on the inongarnic phisiology page:https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Inorganic_Physiology

He doesn't need to act have freewill, that's irrelevant, sealing won't work by reasons I already gave, plus Eggman's probality hax would make the chances of Bowser actualy sealing Eggman extremely low

It's stated multiple times in Colors that he was going to mindhax the entire planet, and nothing contradicts that, if you literaly either played the game or read my arguments you would know, this is literaly a major plot point

He literaly can slow Sonic down in the final battle, this is simply another case of you not knowing the opponent before making arguments

Countered and refuted
 
I also completely forgot Eggman has the Phantom Ruby and all it's prototypes, plus the Phantom King who is also low 2-C as well, the illusions of the Ruby would be extremely effective against Bowser
 
Bowser uses thing that only works on one enemy, and has a high chance of failing the stronger the enemy is, yeah right
 
Slowing =/= stopping by the way. It's minor time manip resistance negation at best.

Yes, but Bowser was gonna have MULTIPLE worlds become subservient to him is what you seem to not understand plus the Grand Star scaling up from Power Stars which have the implication of being able to undo said mind hax. Also, Bowser has universal range with teleportation so as long as he escaoed the planet he should be fine and Eggman needed the Chaos Emeralds and tons of Wisp power to even accomplish that scale of mind hax, and the kicker is that if he misses he ain't getting that energy back, so mind hax is moot and rendered null by Bowser simply warping away or just plugging the ray up with a cork like he did the fountains in Odyssey lmao.

Mario creatures being weird isn't a good counterargument at all. There are literally mechanical inhabitants of some of those worlds and inorganic things.

Plus, you still haven't acknowledge intangible/phasing fireballs being a very in-character move for Bowser that can go right through any mech's durability to hit Eggman and one-shot him or why he can't just petrify anything in his vicinity given that has a wide range being able to affect whole country-sized kingdom's and all. Luck is also a thing Bowser gets from items in SMRPG and even BiS IIRC so probability manip isn't really relevant. Speaking of SMRPG, you know what enemies are in that game that can ve affected by Bowser's hax like fear manip? That's right, machines. Granted, only some of them, but still.
 
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