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Jesus Burgess possibly upgrade

Ryuga21

Ryuga21

3,076
1,030
Jesus Burgess was shown to be a character as durable as Blackbeard himself, so he should share the same High 7-A + tier.

That is, Burgess should be listed as High 7-A+ because his AP is comparable to his own durability. Characters like Sabo would be upgraded too, as well Fujitora.
 
1) Burgess is flat out stated to be no much for Ace so no.

2) SenGoku's shockwave hit all the BB pirates (Except San Juan) to varying degrees. So again no.

That said they will probably all get the same tier soon anyway so this thread is somewhat moot.
 
1) He could be no match for Ace since he doesn't have haki, Blackbeard (whether or not he does or not) believed he could take him down due to his fruit negating Ace's fruit.

2) How does this effect Burger not being on that level?
 
Dr.Fix said:
1) Burgess is flat out stated to be no much for Ace so no.
2) SenGoku's shockwave hit all the BB pirates (Except San Juan) to varying degrees. So again no.

That said they will probably all get the same tier soon anyway so this thread is somewhat moot.
Click to expand...
1- Burgess was never said to be inferior to Ace or to be no match for him. Blackbeard just wanted to defeat Ace alone in hopes of recruiting him into the crew.

2- Not everyone was hit by the shockwave, and that doesn't detract from the fact that Burgess supported it.

Yes, High 7-A + will gone, however Burgess and the others mentioned should still be ranked at the same level as other characters who already have this tier currently.
 
He is a Yonko Commander idk why he didn't have this tier already. Btw, I agree with this but is better you contact boss Calaca for comment here (I think it would change Luffy's durability in a possible future upgrade)
 
Burguess might not be match for Ace for not having Haki and not because he's weak.

Let's take into account that Burguess, Doc Q, Stronger and Teach were shown getting hit by Ace's Hiken, and Kurohige suffered from the intense pain of it because of the fruit. If the attack were to be so weak it doesn't faze them, Teach wouldn't scream that loud, as the fruit amplifies the pain the user suffers.

So first point makes sense to me.

Jack is leagues above Pre-Timeskip Smoker yet he wouldn't be able to dent him without Haki. And Smoker, at the same time, can't really hurt Jack because of the stats difference. So in this case, Burguess could very well be in the same ballpark than Ace, but without Haki he has no way of beating him.
 
@Calaca that's a whole lot of conjecture. "Maybe", "could be" seem like excuses.

Yonko commander is a weak excuse. The equalization rule only applies to top three. Teach has 10

Kuzan is def above Jesus

The Impel 5 are more comparable to Ace then Jesus is

at best Jesus is the 7th strongest memeber of the BB pirates which puts him around Oven level.
 
Dr.Fix said:
^I don't think anyone beleives that's true . . .
Click to expand...
It's stated he's the commander of the first ship, again it implies to me he's first mate, and he is one of the oldest crew members. The only people who don't want to believe it are people who want Shiryu to be first mate so he matches with Zoro. The only thing really speaking against it is his "fight" with Sabo, but it could just be that Sabo's that strong, and I personally think the Blackbeard crew (At Dressrosa point atleast) are the weakest of the Yonko.
 
I wonder where did you get that power scaling for Teach's commanders.

Burguess took two attacks from High 7-As without much injuries. It's simple scaling.

Ironic that you claim I rely on conjectures to claim Burguess is the 7th strongest Commander lmao. Be consistent with yourself.

Burguess is the Captain of the First Float and one of the first crewmembers. Even in the VC is stated he's one of the powerhouses of the crew, and people trust in his strength.

Simple enough for me. I agree with the scaling. Burguess doesn't need to be massively weaker than Ace to not be match for him.
 
So to sum up . . .

He's outted by his captain as no mtach for Ace

He was dominated by Sabo

He has 5 crewmates who were Level 6 prisoners alongside Ace

he has a ridiculously low bounty

His only wins are against Colossieum fodder

He has zero feats of hurting someone at 7-A level (Only surviving being on the receiving end)

He has no calcs of his own putting him very high

Sabo's fire that did him in is actually calc lower . . .

But because he wasn't 1 KO'd at any time and because of the 1st ship title you think he should be above all that. . .
 
Alright glad that is cleared up.

Unfollowing because Staff vote trumps and I want nothing to do with this upgrade.
 
>No match for Ace

hAkI m8

>Dominated by Sabo

Implying Sabo beating him is an antifeat as if Sabo is weak.

>Low bounty

Before being a pirate and these don't measure power as I have told you before.

>Wins

Irrelevant.

>Feats against 7-As

He'd be scaling to High 7-A so irrelevant too.

>No calcs

Scaling.

>Sabo's calc

Irrelevant. Sabo scales above anyway.


Pretty much, yeah. Burguess scales. Thank you for summing up the bad counter-arguments.
 
I think that Calaca seems to make sense, but please remember that the staff have to make an extra effort to try to always be polite.
 
Okay, i'm going to have to point out this small change actually affects literally the entire scaling chain...

Yes, Burgess tanked a hit from Ace and Sengoku. I'll get to that shortly.

Blackbeard specifically states the following: "... You wouldn't stand a chance against him."

  • This has absolutely nothing to do with specifying if this is in regards to "power level" or "Haki". The argument should not even be made in the first place, so let's stick with the facts, shall we?
Burgess takes a Hiken immediately after this and was only slightly harmed (same attack as very similar results to Blackbeard). We should at the very least consider the idea that Burgess' durability is comparable to Blackbeard's own--same goes for the entire crew as well.

Burgess later withstands a shockwave from Sengoku alongside the entire crew including Blackbeard. Again, all of them sustain equally low damage from the attack.

The fact is that Burgess took attacks from High 7-A characters just like Blackbeard, thus has the same reason to be scaled to that stat.

Now, i'm going to pick on Fix's arguments against the upgrade:

>He's outted by his captain as no mtach for Ace

  • Yet this doesn't clarify why. Is it because Burgess is too weak, has no Haki, inferior intelligence to Ace, etc? You're putting your entire stock on a statement that's very vague to justify Burgess being <<< Ace in power.
>He was dominated by Sabo

  • Then that simply means Sabo is the superior combatant, whether that be intellect, ability, power, or otherwise.
>He has 5 crewmates who were Level 6 prisoners alongside Ace

  • ... This has nothing to do with Burgess, period.
>He has a ridiculously low bounty

  • Bounties have nothing to do with a character's Power Level. Blackbeard had been a pirate for decades, had a 0 Bounty, yet still defeated Ace, a man with 550m. Luffy with a 30m defeated Croc's 80m. He has 500m when he beat Cracker and Kata, who were both far above that. Worthless point to argue.
>His only wins are against Colossieum fodder

  • That's the only fight outside of Sabo's that we, the viewers, actually see. Worthless argument.
>He has zero feats of hurting someone at 7-A level (Only surviving being on the receiving end)

  • At the end of their fight, Sabo did take quite a while to defeat him, and even noted that he would have his hands full with him. Not to mention the fact that Sabo did sustain some damage from their fight--albeit light. Burgess could have injured him with the blade he has in reserve--otherwise why would Sabo take the effort to dodge it if Burgess can't do anything to him? Only reason Sabo sustained so little damage is because he abused his Logia ability as shown at the start of their fight.
>He has no calcs of his own putting him very high

  • Every fight Burgess has is off-panel, so your argument doesn't negate the notion that he scales to characters he is shown tanking. There are characters such as Zoro with a feat lower than where he is actually placed. And characters in EVERY verse including One Piece who have 0 destructive feats, yet scale from fighting/harming/tanking specific characters.
>Sabo's fire that did him in is actually calc lower . . .

  • Oh, you lost this argument in regards to the whole Fujitora debacle. Just because a character has a lower calc'd feat doesn't mean that attack will scale lower to their AP. Period. This goes for characters like Zoro, Doflamingo, Luffy, Fujitora, and basically every high and top tier in the verse at High 7-A or 6-B.
Anyways, i agree with the upgrade... but like i said at the start, the stats are not going to make sense without a major revision. Too bad that will never happen since several individuals will just say "no" at every turn to avoid necessary changes. Sad.
 
Fujitora is the pillar for the High-Tiers scalling chain, any changes that involve him would result in that. It would be controversial if Gear Third Luffy were comparable to Fujitora, with Gear Fourth being at least 3 times stronger than both. But at the same time, Fujitora being comparable to someone who is superior to a Yonko Commander, the same YC in which can withstand blows from characters comparable to the Gear Fourth in power.
 
Apply what Calaca and CinCameron have accepted probably.
 
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