Issho and Sabo upgrades.

[Eseseso]

Since everyone on this site and every other site seems to think Sabo is a Yonko level boi...

1. Issho should be upgraded to High 6-A. First off, he has been implied to be comparable to Greenbull, who stomped 5 Scabbards, ate a Hao Infused attack from Yamato, and matched Momonosuke. Second, it was confirmed in Tsuru's Vivre Card that only Issho and Tsuru fought and defeated Jack, not Sengoku.

Also, @MonkeyOfLife found that Issho's Vivre card said:
Before 00 ドフラミンゴ護送中にジャックを返り討ちにする

Which translates to either:

Before 00 Retaliates against Jack while escorting Doflamingo
Before 00 Strikes back at Jack while escorting Doflamingo

Thus, Issho has 2 things supporting him being High 6-A.


1.5. For Jack's durability (probably his Base, since I don't think his Mammoth form would've been able to properly fight on the decks of just some ships), it should be noted that he took hits from Issho since the latter is comparable to Greenbull. He was clearly injured afterwards, but it is still worth mentioning, especially since it really helps support Scabbard level people downscaling from Admiral tiers.


2. Sabo fought Issho and Greenbull alongside other members of the Revolutionary Army. However, we don't know how exactly this went down, so Sabo should be "At least High 7-A, possibly High 6-A"

Edit: Sabo scales above Burgess, who endured an attack from Sengoku, so Sabo will just be flat-out High 6-A.

Scaling chain:
Pre-TS Burgess's durability (which took a hit from Sengoku, which we already use to justify Shiryu's High 6-A durability) < Post-TS Burgess's durability = Casual Sabo's AP = Burgess's AP < Sabo with Rage, Devil Fruit, Haki, or Ryu no Ibuki

 

[Darkvie123]

Agreed

 

[KochengPutih]

Agreed

But number 2, it is scaling to other commanders or not? With "possibly" ofcourse

 

[Stefano4444]

Agree, its about time for Issho to be upgraded.

 

[ssgengar]

Agree

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

Yee I think I agree

 

[That_moron2]

I Made This First: https://vsbattles.com/threads/sabo-upgrade.147757/ But yeah I agree.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Agreed.

 

[Stefano4444]

Bump

 

[Fireld]

Agree with the Fuji point

1.5. For Jack's durability (probably his Base, since I don't think his Mammoth form would've been able to properly fight on the decks of just some ships), it should be noted that he took hits from Issho since the latter is comparable to Greenbull.

You do know those ships can carry VA GIANTS like Saul, let alone a mammoth. IIRC BB was going to exchange Bonney for a marine ship since Sanjuan Wolf broke their old ship. Also Jack's hybrid>~human form in size, so at least that form would fight properly on deck.

He was clearly injured afterwards, but it is still worth mentioning, especially since it really helps support Scabbard level people downscaling from Admiral tiers.

I can't see that link. Is it Jack reading the news while covered in bandages?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I can't see that link. Is it Jack reading the news while covered in bandages?

Yee

when you open the link, refresh or search it again on the url, works for me

 

[Fireld]

Yee

when you open the link, refresh or search it again on the url, works for me

Thanks, now it worked!

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Simpler version of it.

 

[Sus]

what would jacks used form change in this situation?

 

[Damage3245]

First off, he has been implied to be comparable to Greenbull, who stomped 5 Scabbards, ate a Hao Infused attack from Yamato, and matched Momonosuke

You haven't supplied any scans for this, though I assume you're referring to when Doflaming referred to them both as "powerful monsters"? That's not a strong point as Doflamingo is just going off of rumors for that. And just because both can be considered powerful doesn't make them equally powerful in all aspects.

 

[Eseseso]

You haven't supplied any scans for this, though I assume you're referring to when Doflaming referred to them both as "powerful monsters"? That's not a strong point as Doflamingo is just going off of rumors for that. And just because both can be considered powerful doesn't make them equally powerful in all aspects.

Uh, he was portrayed as comparable to Greenbull when the 2 of them fought Sabo and the Revolutionaries IIRC.

Also @KingTempest IIRC said they were implied to be equal to each other.

But anyways, Issho did defeat Jack, who is High 6-A.

 

[Damage3245]

Uh, he was portrayed as comparable to Greenbull when the 2 of them fought Sabo and the Revolutionaries IIRC.

Two characters fighting side by side does not make them comparable.

As for the Jack fight, that was off-screen and we can't make solid judgments about how that went down. For all we know Fujitora used meteors on him.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Since everyone on this site and every other site seems to think Sabo is a Yonko level boi...

1. Issho should be upgraded to High 6-A. First off, he has been implied to be comparable to Greenbull, who stomped 5 Scabbards, ate a Hao Infused attack from Yamato, and matched Momonosuke.

"Stomped 5 Scabbards"
1: They didn't ever see someone with powers like his before, as he is a Logia and a Marine Admiral, which is unorthodox to them.
2: He simply restrained them with branches and tried to leave.
3: "Ate a Hao Infused attack "

Home dog had a headache from the attack while he was fully transformed, and was sweating bullets.
He did not "eat" the attack.
4: "Matched Momonosuke" An inexperienced Momo who isn't H6A. Why would he matter.
But if it helps your case, this shows that he was actively using his DF against Sabo and his boys.
Though I'm not sure if that's a real panel as Aramaki didn't have a face at that time, iirc.

 

[Fireld]

what would jacks used form change in this situation?

How high or low Fujitora scales to H6A

4: "Matched Momonosuke" An inexperienced Momo who isn't H6A. Why would he matter.

Inexpirienced or not, he would still be durable as heck with his dragon body but you can hear bone noises.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

How high or low Fujitora scales to H6A

Inexpirienced or not, he would still be durable as heck with his dragon body as you can hear bone noises.

I suppose this is fair?
Dunno. I'll address it later.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Agree

 

[That_moron2]

Two characters fighting side by side does not make them comparable.

He fought Sabo, and he fought Greenbull. Not only that but Jinbei mentioned that the Marines were even stronger than ever.

 

[Damage3245]

He fought Sabo, and he fought Greenbull. Not only that but Jinbei mentioned that the Marines were even stronger than ever.

We have no clear details yet on how that fight went down.

 

[That_moron2]

We have no clear details yet on how that fight went down.

If Sabo wasn't in the same tier, how did he get away with only a few minor injuries, and a bonus Kuma?

 

[Damage3245]

If Sabo wasn't in the same tier, how did he get away with only a few minor injuries, and a bonus Kuma?

I'd refrain from speculating on it personally.

 

[That_moron2]

I'd refrain from speculating on it personally.

That's not speculation. That's fact.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

All we know is that Aramaki used his DF and Fujitora used his sword but in the end game they failed to get Sabo.

 

[WrongIdea21]

If Sabo wasn't in the same tier, how did he get away with only a few minor injuries, and a bonus Kuma?

This is not a solid justufication

 

[Sus]

This is not a solid justufication

We have no clear details yet on how that fight went down.

isn't this why its only "possibly"

 

[Fireld]

If Sabo wasn't in the same tier, how did he get away with only a few minor injuries, and a bonus Kuma?

Like how Luffy escaped with Sanji in WCI despite not being in the same tier as BM.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Like how Luffy escaped with Sanji in WCI despite not being in the same tier as BM.

Idk man I think he was comparable to her fr fr

 

[Fireld]

Idk man I think he was comparable to her fr fr

She's toying with him.

 

[Sus]

She's toying with him.

i believe he was joking

 

[Sus]

For all we know Fujitora used meteors on him.

then, as a lowball, we can upgrade fuji's DF only

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

then, as a lowball, we can upgrade fuji's DF only

That's an assumption as well...

Possibly should be better

Tho a full rating in my view should fine

 

[Damage3245]

That's an assumption as well...

Possibly should be better

Tho a full rating in my view should fine

Could just give him a "possibly/likely higher" rating in addition to his current rating.

 

[Eseseso]

A possibly High 6-A for Sabo works.

Issho can just go up to High 6-A with his DF/meteors.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

A possibly High 6-A for Sabo works.

Issho can just go up to High 6-A with his DF/meteors.

Gonna make Ace vs Sabo

 

[Eseseso]

Wait a sec, didn't Jesus Burgess alongside BB's other commanders endure one of Sengoku's shockwaves?

I mean, it's listed currently for Shiryu as a High 6-A durability feat.

 

[DaMonkeMan]

Wait a sec, didn't Jesus Burgess alongside BB's other commanders endure one of Sengoku's shockwaves?

I mean, it's listed currently for Shiryu as a High 6-A durability feat.

Huh, good point, but it seems like it did still **** em up.
But that means Sabo scales above that for dropping it low on a stronger version of Burgess easily, which is probably gonna be problematic.