Re Zero Revisions

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 23, 2016

Not sure if this is the time to be doing this considering the revisions the staff are doing with tier 6 but whatever the case the main purpose of this thread is to give some more attension to the blogs created by hienkel astrea.

First proposed changed is for reinhard's speed to be changed to mhs which was done by a weaker character than reinhard in arc 6 of the web novel, which was calc here. This scales to base reinhard as reid the first sword saint was stated to only need to use both his hands once every ten times in combat against shaula and reinhard is superior to reid. Reid was most likely not using reid as reid is something like a last resort, it can't be used unless the other person is worthy to be used against and can also only be used if they feel the other person needs to be absolutely destroyed. A fight against shaula wouldn't fall under such conditions as reid wasn't intent on destroying her and shaula isn't strong enough for him to need reid. Reid with reid should be comparable to the dragon and sage while shaula is somewhere between the bishops and the sage, dragon and reid, even base reinhard can take out bishops as he surpasses them in speed and dc the only issue is hax like the bishop of greed which makes dc irrelevant and is impossible to kill without ofensive hax which reinhard doesn't possess.

The only issue with this speed feat for shaula i could see is the translations not being all that clear however i think that despite it being a very rough and somewhat incoherent translation the main point is brought acrossed, the summary for arc 6 with better translations also talks about shaula killing subaru and co. with a light from the tower all of a sudden and evaporating their heads, so the timeframe is ok it would only be a question of the distance but i think what we have from the rough translation should be ok. If this feat is rejected there is another feat which scales to reinhard which would put his base at hypersonic which was performed by the former sword saint who is completely inferior to reinhard.

Another speed revision would be for elsa which places her at supersonic. This seems pretty straight forward to me with the only issue maybe being an argument for the time it took for elsa to reach reinhard.

Lastly would be revisions to rems ap, speed and durability. This calc places rem's al Human at building level and subsonic+ attack speed. Rem's durability should be wall level as she took a landslide attack that easily uprooted trees and rem took that attack and was hit several meters into the air and fell face first into the ground and got still got back up and this was still in her normal form. Rem has been hurt by being stabbed by cultist however so i think she should be street level (got hurt from being stabbed by cultist but still kept fighting), wall level against brute force attacks (survived a landslide that took down multiple trees and still got back up, can jump off high places with no damage), i am not too sure on this as rem has displayed multiple times durability beyond what a street level character can survive but still gets hurt by being stabbed, i want some opinions on this.

And finally her durability should be building level with Human for surviving and taking no damage from a massive explosion from several cultist. Hienkel hasn't posted the calc for that explosion as a blog yet but it came out to be building level. The issue with this feat however would be that we didn't see exactly how rem survived the explosion as the last thing we saw was her swinging her mace, rem was also burned from the fire magic of just one cultist. It is either she survived the explosion or had the speed to escape which isn't the case as rem has never been portrayed to be that fast so she had to have use Human as her normal durability couldn't tank such an attack, this is further backed by the fact that if hienkel's calc is correct she can create a building level attack i think it's safe to assume she could also use that same amount of mana to create a building level barrier.

LordAizenSama · Aug 23, 2016

I skimread the first paragraph, you're going to need more calc member opinions on the mhs calc

I'll probably read the rest of it later though

Ciruno_Fortes_(COB) · Aug 24, 2016

What about the whale's durability feat? From what I've seen on the anime it has to be at least large building to city block with how it took that amount of explosions and was still flying around. Can't argue too much about the other revisions though. Sorry if this comes off as rushy.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

Well we would need a calc on the whale's durability in order to upgrade it, it's durability being building level was just an eyeball on the explosions it tanked.

That also reminds me we need a calc for it's mist of elimination as well although not sure if it's an ap feat as the mist erases whatever it touches from existence.

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 24, 2016

CoreOfimBalance(COB) said:
What about the whale's durability feat? From what I've seen on the anime it has to be at least large building to city block with how it took that amount of explosions and was still flying around. Can't argue too much about the other revisions though. Sorry if this comes off as rushy.

We can do that with fireball calc since the battle scene shows the fireball's size relative to Hakugei rather well.

For example, we can see here that this fireball is already much larger than Hakugei's length (162 m), engulfing him completely.

The diameter of the fireball is, therefore, minimum of Hakugei's own length just by looking at it.

We can then use the source provided here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Calculations

"When dealing with an explosion that doesn't leave a crater behind, we can use the following Calculator:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Science/Nuke.html

Although it is tricky to use, we need to find the radius of the explosion in question, and insert the megaton value into the calculator until we get the same value for the "Air Blast radius (near total fatalities)" as the radius that we have scaled. "

I got 10 kilotons (0.001 megatons) for air burst fireball radius of 80 meters (not the blast we can't observe; the visible fireball). The fireball is actually much larger than Hakugei, which should change the value, but I'm not doing the calc right now so I'm just using his length (full engulfment so that no part of him can be seen from any angle, either above or below).

We can also use that fireball calc in other scenes where the explosion is visible relative to Hakugei for scaling, such as this.

.

We can then add up the energy of those explosions that Hakugei had sustained while "not losing altitude" until he died.

A calculation of 5.8 kilotons to 100 kilotons, after we scale all those fireballs to his own size, would give Tow level durability. I think that's a safe ballpark since it's highly unlikely those calcs would go above 100 kilotons.

Gemmysaur · Aug 24, 2016

That's a lot of speed scaling. If it was anyone else and not Reinhard, I would've questioned the authenticity of the scaling, but meh. Anyways, I personally prefer the Hypersonic calc from Theresia's feat but I can't really calc to save my life so perhaps, maybe MHS Reinhard is really a thing.

At least Hypersonic Reinhard also coincides with the fact that Elsa didn't get turned into paste by Reinhard going Astreacaliblast on her. Also, Elsa running at Subaru faster than Reinhard can get there.

Regarding Elsa, as I said, I can't calc for shizz so I'm watching the video instead, and I agree that Elsa is supersonic at the very least but not because of the calc since it looks to me like cinematic timing more than anything. Anyways, she seems to have made a sonic boom in 0:02 if you watch it in 0.25x speed. Which also coincides with her deflecting Felt's attack despite Felt being fast enough to make a sonic boom by herself, and then proceed to rotate her body for the lulz and cut Felt faster than the little blonde loli can move. Doesn't hurt that they have the same sound effect when blitzing around.

Supersonic, or at least Peak Human+ to Subsonic reflexes should also apply to Emilia-tan for being able to block multiple slashes from different angles courtesy of Elsa and even dodge one as well.

Also, Subaru would be what? Subsonic? Peak Human+? He at the very least is capable of dodging and blocking her strikes, regardless of him being so called, "normal". He even reacted to Elsa throwing a dagger at Felt while they were locked down in combat. Which would coincide with him being able to dodge some of Rem's attacks, when a calc for her puts her at Subsonic+ attack speed.

Not saying much about the AP though.

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 24, 2016

To clarify, I don't necessarily think Reinhard's Combat Speed is MHS, unless we can prove it in future calcs.

I think, however, his Reaction Speed is sufficiently MHS, meaning that he can defend against the attacks of someone who casually blitz/vaporize Subaru's whole group (which include Rem) from 10 kilometers even under an Aim Dodge scenario (the group is looking at the source of the attack at the moment it's launched, and can see the 'light' coming).

What I think is appropriate for Base Reinhard right now is Hypersonic Combat Speed scaled to Theresia - his grandmother and previous Sword Saint. MHS Reaction Speed would be scaled to Reid, the first Sword Saint, who casually bullies Shaula around fighting with one hand only. But not MHS for Combat Speed.

http://pastebin.com/8QTMKVDx

"Q: Among the characters that have appeared until now, what would the five people with high battle strength look like when they are lined up in sequence?
A: Reinhard, Ram(with horn), Regulus, Sekhmet, and Puck in his True form tied with Roswaal. Even though they are like dangos under Reinhard but these guys are capable of bringing down the white whale by themselves.
Q: The strength of the golden age Wilhelm-san is said to be enough to match successive generations of Sword Saints but then, is it okay to recognize that only Reinhard is outstanding among the Sword Saints?
A: Reinhard>Reid>>>Wilhelm (power of love)>successive Sword Saints (Tereshia)>normal youth Wilhelm>>old Wilhelm is what it looks like
Q: How powerful is Reinhard among the previous Sword Saints?
A: He's the strongest successor and the world strongest
Q: What are the names of the top five in this world that have the best eyesight (not perception)?
A: Reinhard>Reid>Tereshia>Shaula>[Gluttony]"

Note the >>> that indicates how much gap exists between the first/latest Sword Saints and Theresia. But we can just scale Reinhard to Theresia/Reid while we lack future calcs.

And the first Q&A already scales all the characters mentioned there to Hakugei's feats. Those five will solo Hakugei, including Reinhard though the other four are described as 'dangos' under him.

Lastly, I will add that Subaru has a little bit of precog added to his third fight with Elsa (he can anticipate a little better than in previous loops where Elsa wants to strike from, on which part of his body, her general speed, etc). He fights just a little bit better in each loop.

Without precog Subaru is just normal Human. (for the anime arcs at least)

Gemmysaur · Aug 24, 2016

Yeah, that's what I said, At the very least Hypersonic Reinhard. I dunno about the MHS thing though since he could very well be aimdodging as well via seeing the light since he has the best eyesight in the world anyway. He could very well see clearly the projectile coming while the group can only see the flash when it's already close, considering it's tiny.

Won't aimdodging make the value of reacting to the projectile be far lower?

I can't calc so please bear with me, but assuming Reinhard can deflect a projectile:

(Calc base shamelessly taken from Kirito bulletslicing calc)

Speed = Kirito's 90deg arm movement / (distance the projectile traveled / projectile speed)

Speed = 1.182027 m/((0.28 m)/(948 m/s)) ---> 1.182027 m/((10000 m)/(40000.66 m/s))

Speed = 4002.0057 m/s = Mach 11.668 = Hypersonic+ ---> 4.72818601 m/s = Below Average

The left being the original calc ---> The right being applied to what if Reinhard deflected a projectile from 10km away

Anyways, I most likely failed extremely hard with this, but yeah. How fast do you think Reinhard will have to move to deflect a Mach116 projectile from 10km away?

As for Subaru...

I don't think Subaru really has precog, but more of things to look out for. Little body clues that he has to watch out for to be able to anticipate an attack, meaning he has to be able to somehow see a tiny bit of the opponent's moves (in this case, most likely Elsa's silhouette running to the right or to the left, then he has to move his body to match that movement) which is why I think he has enough merit to get Superhuman+ or Subsonic.

That's just me though. Thoughts on Elsa and Emilia-tan?

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 24, 2016

"How fast do you think Reinhard will have to move to deflect a Mach116 projectile from 10km away?"

A bit faster than the speed of a human who is Aim Dodging. Mach 116.62 from 10km is 0.25 sec reaction time.

It's deflecting from inside Reinhard's own range that we need to calc, I think. He never used ranged weapons except throwing a dagger at Elsa.

For E&E:

This is the fastest speed feat I've seen Emilia performing in anime/manga so far.

Elsa 'blinking' in front of Emilia

That's 'faster than the Eye', or Subsonic reaction speed.

Gemmysaur · Aug 24, 2016

Heinkel Astrea said:
This is the fastest speed feat I've seen Emilia performing in anime/manga so far.
Elsa 'blinking' in front of Emilia

That's 'faster than the Eye', or Subsonic reaction speed.

Elsa casually bullies Felt who can make sonic booms by running. She even casually comments that Felt is blessed for having a power like that.

Emilia reacting to and defending against casual Elsa.

This is the fastest I've seen Emilia so far. Only watched the anime though.

As for Reinhard and deflecting from his own range, I tried the calc that was used for Kirito swatting bullets from an automatic rifle and applied it to Reinhard.

If Reinhard was to deflect a projectile from Shaula from the distance at the speed given by moving his entire arm 90deg, that was the outcome of my attempt. Below Average, can you by any chance check on that? Because to me, it seems like team Subaru only gets done in because they can only actually see the projectile when it's already close enough for something of that speed to hit them. Which wouldn't be the case for Reinhard since his eyesight is above and beyond everybody else. That's just my take though.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

I think hypersonic combat speed is ok as for mhs and his eyesight, i am not too sure on that, shaula's needles were described as light from the tower and no one had time to react to it. Reinhard could see the attack coming because of his eyesight but i don't think that alone means he could dodge it he would have comparable reactions in order to dodge it.

As for subaru, him reacting to elsa is complete pis, that fight between elsa, subaru and reinhard is filled with pis. Subaru is supposed to a normal guy that keeps in shape but he has feats that prove he isn't like throwing ram several meters into the air, lifting that wolfgarm which on the wiki apparently weigh 30-40kg with one hard and having a grip strength of 70kg.

Now even though subaru is clearly not a normal human he is by no means superhuman at least not even close to the level that elsa or reinhard are. Suabru reacted to elsa's attacks and elsa easily reacted to felt who had a blessing that gave her superhuman speed, this makes no sense to me. How could a guy from our world who i could buy at most being peak human react to someone who reacted to someone who had a blessing given to them by the world when he himself doesn't have any blessing, can't use magic properly and isn't some other race like elsa that isn't human.

Then at the end of the fight subaru reacted to elsa faster than reinhard? This makes absolutely no sense reinhard should have been able to easily react to elsa. So that entire fight was filled with pis.

Gemmysaur · Aug 24, 2016

Can't really say PIS if Subaru is doing it consistently. He's dodged and blocked from both Rem and Elsa. Elsa even noted that she was annoyed that Subaru was able to get Felt to run away by intercepting her knife with a kick to a plank or something, all while they were locked in combat.

He dodged a surprise attack from Rem from a blindspot (he was looking down at the cliff while Rem came from his 5 o'clock direction. On that note, he's also durable enough to catch the flail dead on in the stomach as it smashes and buries itself into the cliff with his jacket immediately afterwards. (ep.6)

Took a chain (of the flail) to the chest and side though he is really, really damaged, he still is able to talk and turn his body around, even lifting his upper body in a sitting position. In the next timeline, he jumped ridiculously high, I may be wrong in the distance he jumped though. See image below.(ep.7)

Subaru jumping feat

Anyways, even if we consider him moving faster than Reinhard PIS, everything else he did isn't. Also, it was Reinhard who reacted first when Elsa reappeared to kill Emilia. He even shouted "Subaru!" when he saw the pile of wood move.

It may just be that Reinhard's reflexes are top tier but his movement speed is only up to par. Or that he judged Emilia wasn't in immediate danger because Subaru is there, and Subaru can at least hold his own for a second or two. This would probably explain why he stopped in front of Subaru, talking Elsa down, instead of something like kicking her away.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

What i have a problem with is accepting that he is somehow able to react to elsa when he has been said to be weak over and over again, it doesn't match up that he can somehow fend off attacks from elsa and rem yet is said to be fodder among crusch's army and none of crusch's army bar crusch and wilheim would be able to take on elsa.

I can't buy that a guy who just worked out regularly and has no potential for magic and no blessings can somehow keep up with elsa who reacted to felt who had a blessing. Blessings are rare and give a huge advantage yet a guy without any not even able to use magic properly is faster than someone with a blessing? This makes no sense to me, subaru isn't special besides his return by death ability. The feats he has done don't match up with how he is supposed to be.

After the author has said things like this: Q: After this will Subaru become even stronger than Otto? A: If you mean in fighting, nope Q: Who is the character that Subaru can win against in a earnest fight? A: Petora Q: Who are the best five weak characters? A: Subaru, Petora, Anastasia, Original Ryuuzu, Ferris

I can't believe he is a match for elsa, and the thing is otto isn't weak he can use earth magic and has a blessing but even he would lose to elsa yet subaru can somewhat keep up with elsa? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Gemmysaur · Aug 24, 2016

He is only able to fight defensively, meaning his reflexes aren't up to par with Elsa. He's still fodder that way, only not as weak as we thought. Way I see it, she was playing for the most part, and underestimated him which pissed her off when he suddenly pulls a fast one on her like deflecting her projectile against Felt and blocking her attack against Emilia. She even lampshades this when she said that he has no knowledge or skill to make him interesting.

Otto, iirc has magic right? That makes Otto > Subaru.

Subaru still isn't beating anyone, just that he won't get lolstomped. Also, he has 0 skill with any weapon.

Felt is only making sonic booms with her blessing, outside of it, she's pretty damn slow.

Also, while I find it hard to believe he's supposedly physically fit NEET level but does superhuman stuff, I find it consistent that he's at the very least Superhuman. He supplexed a man-sized dog with one arm, he threw Ram harder than an olympic thrower, he jumped 48m far and 32m high and he took Rem's flail to the stomach like a champ. We know he's human, but we know next to nothing else about him after that.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

Him being able to fight her at all is my problem, if elsa has supersonic speed he shouldn't be able to defend himself in anyway or react to her when she was seriously intent on killing emilia at the end of that fight. Subaru is still human and he has no blessings and he can't use magic so him being comparable to people who have such things makes no sense to me.

I agree he isn't just a normal human and he has displayed superhuman feats but i don't agree with scaling him in any way to elsa.

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 24, 2016

Elsa did not go Supersonic against Subaru and she wasn't really fighting seriously. (using only one dagger)

It's only when Reinhard emerges that she begins exerting her maximum effort to fight. (go Supersonic and dual-wield)

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

That is reasonable, i am just not buying subaru being subsonic or anything like that, peak human though yes.

Why are we discussing subaru though he wasn't even in the topic nor does he have a profile yet lol. We can make one for him i guess after we hammer out his stats but first we should look at the revisions i brought up like rem's durabilty being wall level but still getting hurt by knives.

We need calc members opinions in order to deal with the other revisions.

ZERO7772 · Aug 24, 2016

Elsa one shot everyone in the second loop but wasn't able to kill subaru in the fourth one serious or not subaru shouldn't handle candle to her , short fight is PIS

Also Elsa isn't Whiliam Level from my point of view

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

Agreed, yea elsa isn't wilheim level even in his old age wilheim would be like a high mid tier character, elsa is only like low or mid, mid tier i think she is only so dangerous because of her high regenerative abilities, wilheim would behead and that would be the end of it.

Gemmysaur · Aug 24, 2016

Well, it's just my opinion that Subaru is a consistent superhuman so yeah. Take it as you will, as for Rem's durability with and without Huuma, I see both reasonable.

ZERO7772 · Aug 24, 2016

Reinhard one shouted her in the manga so there wasn't even a fight was it the same case in the LN ?

Yeah evan old wilhelm would rekt her

so seeing this : A: Reinhard>Reid>>>Wilhelm (power of love)>successive Sword Saints (Tereshia)>normal youth Wilhelm>>old Wilhelm is what it looks like

There isn't much gap between reinhard and reid you said once reinhard would one shout him xD

Also roswaal is equal to puck ? mean Ram may really be above them and i have very hard time believing that becuase roswaal want her body or is it because of her poetinal

ZERO7772 · Aug 24, 2016

Rem durability without Human is wall level with full power human she may reach building level and the same goes for her AP

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 24, 2016

@Gemmysaur what do you think of the whole being hurt by knifves yet surviving wall level attacks, how do we classify that, wall level but can still be hurt by piercing attacks or what i suggested above?

@Zero Reinhard one shotted her in all versions of the story there was never much of a fight. Well considering this: Q: Among the characters that have appeared until now, what would the five people with high battle strength look like when they are lined up in sequence?A: Reinhard, Ram(with horn), Regulus, Sekhmet, and Puck in his True form tied with Roswaal. Even though they are like dangos under Reinhard but these guys are capable of bringing down the white whale by themselves.

Q: Approximately how strong is the first generation Sword Saint Reid? (Based mainly on Reinhard)A: Yesterday, I gave the power rankings of the (top) five people among the current characters, however with the exception of Reinhard he can behead all of them.

Reid is stronger than ram, sekhmet regulus etc so yea he is pretty op just not reinhard level which begs to question what abilities he had cause hax is needed in order to "behead" regulus with his op ability that nullifies all attacks. Roswall is the strongest magic user in the kingdom so of course he ranks high, also still have a hard time believing ram was that op.

Anyway that was kind of off topic, i think it's time a couple calc members are messaged to have a look here.

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 24, 2016

"Gemmysaur what do you think of the whole being hurt by knifves yet surviving wall level attacks, how do we classify that, wall level but can still be hurt by piercing attacks or what i suggested above?"

Those Witch Cultists are very Superhumans. They jump like 5~6 meters vertically into the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC6d2gNExtk

I think it's more likely that Rem is Wall level given her survival of the landslide + falling several stories head first into the ground, but those Cultists can also damage her when stabbing her from the back.

Alakabamm · Aug 25, 2016

For the first one: using a timeframe of 0.25 seconds seems strange to me when it is possible they just didn't see the attack until it was too late. Humans themselves cannot react to supersonic attacks from a far distance away despite having the speed to do so because sound is too slow to indicate the attack before it is too late.

For the explosion calc, use total fatalities - this is the better low end and preferred to fire ball based on the unknown nature of the explosion attack.

Just angsize with the Elsa calc instead of looking at the size of the warehouse to find the distance. It shouldn't be too different but it is far less steps and you are lacking any real measurements in the calc.

The Hakugei scaling appears to use concept art - is there another full body shot from the anime that can be used instead? Otherwise it looks fine.

Gemmysaur · Aug 25, 2016

Piercing attacks require far, far less energy to do damage than blunt or energy attacks. Regarding the cult, the cultists are very much superhuman given that they were able to keep up with Rem, even if only through numbers.

Also, magic. They move through walls in the cave where Beetlejuice held Subaru.

I vote for Wall level Rem as well.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 25, 2016

@Alakabamn Well from what i see of the arc 6 summary it seemed that the first time no one knew the attack was coming and didn't have any time to react to it as it was described as "All of the sudden a light coming from the tower evaporated Subaru's head. All the other people were also shot through the head by the light and killed. ".

The 2nd time around subaru got shot again all of a sudden from the light from the tower but this time he didn't die instantly. The 3rd time he managed to block the attack but he wasn't the one who blocked it, he had beatrice who he was contracted to use a spell that interferes with the time and space around him to create a barrier that cannot be interfered with from the outside but even that didn't stop the attack as "the light was still shooting" so he had beatrice use a move that negates the effects of mana within it and that finally stopped the attack.

Seems to me they could see the light but couldn't react to it and the only reason why subaru could the last time was because he already knew where it was gonna come from.

Alakabamm · Aug 25, 2016

That would just make it very fast, not necessarily able to travel the entire distance in his perception timeframe.

Also, do we know how tall the tower is? I have an idea for a low safe end for the timeframe.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 25, 2016

The tower is stated to have 7 floors.

Alakabamm · Aug 25, 2016

Anything else?

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 25, 2016

Also this "Beatrice is the sixth layer, denominated place floor has become to one side stone, has been enshrined is lonely dragon cars in the middle of the space. Circular space to spread around its dragon car, but roughly radius in two or three hundred meters likely.
Rather than the ellipse, if it is accurately built the tower as a circular, its and accuracy, a huge amount of the empty mouth of labor multiplied not Fusagara."

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 25, 2016

Diameter of the tower is 400 to 600 meters. It's fully circular rather than eliptical.

Colosseum's eliptical end is 189 meters long.

This is the size of the tree built by the same person, by the way.

http://i.imgur.com/OppoUmh.png

http://i.imgur.com/gG3l0Qo.png

Subaru is in Aim Dodge scenario. He is able to see the shot from its launch up to its impact on his head/torso.

To be honest, in the native Japanese of the WN Julius has estimated that the distance Shaula shot from was 'tens of kilometers'... I used the 'ten kilometers' mentioned by Subaru as a low-end estimate, and because google was unable to translate Julius properly. For that particular revision we should wait for the official English release.

Official source for the Hakugei Side View is here:

http://rezero.wikia.com/wiki/File:Re_Zero_Volume_7_14.png

What angle-minute should I give Elsa when she's on the wall? I can't get a good estimate.

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 25, 2016

By the way, This is Julius' minimum combat speed compared to Subaru.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjLxj-X4nQI

Alakabamm · Aug 25, 2016

Do you have proof Subaru can see an incredibly small object from 10 km away? That seems absurd for a supposedly normal character.

The side view is still concept art...it is worse than what is used in the anime. Is there a shot of the whale in full in the anime or not?

Don't give Elsa an angle...just use angsizing.

Gemmysaur · Aug 25, 2016

Scaling should work for the whale right?

Whale from afar

Whale from atop

Whale head

Whale body

Is it just me or is it a bit inconsistent in size?

Also, even for a superhuman, 10km methinks is a bit too far to see clearly anything more than a tiny flicker of light.

What was the projectile anyway? It could've been that he already saw it was already close.

Celestial_Pegasus · Aug 25, 2016

Not sure about this either, subaru shouldn't have been able to see a needle 10km away although it was described as light still shoudn't have been able to see light from needles that far away. He should have only seen it once it came into his field of vision but yet every time except the last time when he used beatrice to counter the attack, he wasn't able to react to it.

I am not sure about the range of beatrice's first move emm but the second one is spherical field several ten meters long, the light touched it and fell and became needles. Seems like he only knew from dying the first 2 times what direction the light would come from as clearly he shouldn't be able to see 10km away but he couldn't do anything about it himself or he didn't know where it came from the first two times and figured it out the last time so he had time to stop it. We need translations of these scenes to see what's really going on.

@Alakabamm what do you think of the second speed calc that would place reinhard at hypersonic?

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 25, 2016

Chapter 12

http://rezero.wikia.com/wiki/Magic
"EÒâ╗MÒâ╗M is an "absolute defense magic". Beatrice uses Yin Magic to interfere with the time and space around Subaru, and while he can't move during activation, he experiences no interference from outside the barrier. It is similar to the Authority of Greed but doesn't have the same risk, and can be used until mana runs out"

Human blink is 300-400 millisecond, though I am unsure if it is appropriate to use here.

The following quote is from Juilus who used magic to determine the distance.

These are other whale images.

Alakabamm · Aug 25, 2016

Scaling from the 4th whale image looks good I think.

And this is animation so sizes will tend to be inconsistent. For example, RWBY's Dragon Grimm was very controversial because it varied heavily in sizes in various pictures.

The "blink" quote actually seems like a reasonable justification, however, the translation looks like it is from Google Translate. Is it confirmed that they meant "blink" there? If so, then I wouldn't have a problem with the throwing speed.

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 26, 2016

Yes, it's from Google Translate.

Original text:

This is the same phrase translated through Microsoft translation. http://imtranslator.net/translation/japanese/to-english/translation/

"Light is looming here at a rate unparalleled even [to] the blink of an eye, breaking the [vital] points with one hit."

So two descriptions of the scenario are:

It's Aim Dodge.

The perceived speed at which the light are impacting Emilia's ice shield is unparalleled to a Human's blink of an eye.

The 10 kilometer quote was taken from two different characters (Julius and Subaru).

Heinkel_Astrea · Aug 26, 2016

I think Serious Puck's AP is most likely Large Building level.

Can we use a 'trench calculator' for Reinhard's sword throw in this scene? The sword throw that destroyed the warehouse's front door when he came to rescue Subaru and Emilia.

Re Zero Revisions

Similar threads