• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Eternatus Issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
GyroNutz

GyroNutz

VS Battles
Administrator
12,562
2,517
Two main things:

  • Why does this Pokemon have Low 2-C AP? Neither warping space time nor having infinite amounts of 3-D energy warrants this rating. High 3-A is iffy already, but that's less of a glaring issue.
  • Why does it have a category for every ability affected by its power null? That makes zero sense; categories are only for abilities/feature that the character itself possesses.
Smaller things: I'd like to know why its range is planetary, and also its speed should be justified. I know why it has Relativistic+ speed, but your average person reading the profile will not.
 
-I agree with the first question, "likely High 3-A" is enough.

-I don't mind too much, we can add the abilities that Eternatus negates in the Eternamax key.

-Eternatus should be comparable in speed to a fully evolved pokémon and obviously comparable to Zacian, which is described as extremely fast:

"Zacian dashes through the battlefield to strike its enemies with the speed of a swift wind. Its graceful movements are beautiful to behold and have been compared to a dance. Zacian's slashing attacks possess a speed that makes them impossible to see with the naked eye, and those hit by its blade are cut down before they can even feel pain from the blow."
 
As I already said here, I think Eternatus should simply be Unknow until it gets more exposure.

The High 3-A is so weird because how can Eternatus suddenly contain infinite energy after only absorbing the energy from the Galar region? Did Galar somehow contain infinite energy within it?

It's just weird as a whole, how does something that supposedly contained infinite energy lose and have to gain it back? You cannot divide infinity apart.

Legendaries obviously tend to scale above fully evolved Pokemon when it comes to speed, Zacian's speed may not compare to what we already have but its supporting nonetheless.
 
Doesn't change the fact that Pokedex entries are typically what provide the most accurate information about Pokemon, so if it says that it radiates infinite energy, then that should be accepted, like how Pupitar's entry of blowing away a mountain is accepted
 
Having infinite energy or absorbing infinite energy isnt High 3-A unless you can actually use infinite energy at once.

Otherwise its just hax or infinite stamina.
 
DragonGamerZ913 said:
Doesn't change the fact that Pokedex entries are typically what provide the most accurate information about Pokemon, so if it says that it radiates infinite energy, then that should be accepted, like how Pupitar's entry of blowing away a mountain is accepted
Click to expand...
if Infinate energy counts as High 3-A, then Kirby having "infinate Power as stated in the games" would make him High 3-A as well maybe even higher given that reason
 
The description of Eternabeam (Infinite Beam in Japanese) states that Eternamax is the original form of Eternatus.
 
For the high 3-A stuff, im pretty sure its not because of either but because it's both at once. Affecting space-time using said infinite energy.
 
PaChi2 said:
Having infinite energy or absorbing infinite energy isnt High 3-A unless you can actually use infinite energy at once.
Otherwise its just hax or infinite stamina.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure that's what Eternatus is doing. The fact that it's radiating this infinite energy is what's warping space-time
 
Rose claims that Eternatus is a limitless source of energy that can guarantee everlasting prosperity for Galar.

But I will honestly remain neutral.
 
Yeah the profile does need some work, pretty sure it's the only tier 3 mon (that's accepted to my knowledge) but yeah listing what its power-nulls does is indeed overkill, perhaps a link to a blog on either the notes or explanations on how its power null works will be more appropriate?.

Also a simple link to the Poliwrath calc will likely suffice for the speed.

Tbh I'm neutral on High 3-A scaling too, ofc as a mascot level legendary being only Low 6-B is ludicrous lowball imo however considering the direction of Gen 8 (with the lack of immersive lore as well as rather Incomplete "stuff") I doubt Eternatus will get more development until the manga/anime catches up with the games.
 
Eternatus was in a state of power overload when returning to its original form, but my problem is how it depowered and had to gain back its supposed infinite energy by absorbing a finite amount.

Eternatus shouldn't be Low 6-B because he can't be infinitely weaker than his original state, his power leaked and was responsible for the Dynamax phenomena but you can't divide infinity that way.

There's also Zacian and Zamazenta being able to defeat Eternamax-Eternatus in lore, when all we have for them is splitting the sea and ramming through mountains.

EDIT: Its Power Null should just have a more lengthy description summarizing the extent of its capability, not a whole category.
 
NeoZex6399 said:
Rose claims that Eternatus is a limitless source of energy that can guarantee everlasting prosperity for Galar.
But I will honestly remain neutral.
Click to expand...
This is supported by Eternamax Eternatus' Pokemon Shield Dex entry: "Infinite amounts of energy pour from this Pokémon's enlarged core, warping the surrounding space-time."

This also shows that the infinite energy is causing the warping of space-time. As such, I'm at least standing with the High 3-A rating staying
 
The Axiom of Virgo said:
Yeah the profile does need some work, pretty sure it's the only tier 3 mon (that's accepted anyway) but yeah listing what it power-nulls does is overkill perhaps a link to a blog on either the notes or explanations on how its power null works will be more appropriate?.
Also a simple link to the Poliwrath calc will likely suffice for the speed.
Click to expand...
Yeah, just put a little note in paranthesis like (Should be at least as fast as Poliwrath) and link the calc if necessary
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Nowhere is infinite energy accepted for such tiering.
Click to expand...
The infinite energy alone wouldn't qualify for High 3-A, but it's because the infinite energy is also causing space-time to become warped that it's in that tier
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
That literally means nothing, was it doing it throughout the universe? No
Click to expand...
Doing it throughout the universe would make its range universal, but as shown on Eternatus' profile, its range isn't universal. That doesn't scale to its AP
 
Well there's the matter of how everything warps spacetime to some extent, which is half of why "warping spacetime" is meaningless.
 
Being able to affect space-time with your energy alone also suggests that its infinte given that space-time is what's factored in.

Also, aren't the Dens in the wild area created by Eternatus's power as well?
 
Wokistan said:
Well there's the matter of how everything warps spacetime to some extent, which is half of why "warping spacetime" is meaningless.
Click to expand...
The way it does it though is on a different scale, as shown with how it's to an extent that images of other locations occasionally flash during the battle.
 
"The way it does it though is on a different scale, as shown with how it's to an extent that images of other locations occasionally flash during the battle. "

This doesn't really suggest that it's doing it across an infinite distance along 4 dimensional axes.

Also yeah what is even going on with that power null tabber
 
Even I'll admit that's sounds a little iffy, so essentially; Eternatus has access to an infinite amount of energy however it is limited on a planetary range however due it warping time and space, it gets an universal rating.

Am I understanding this right?.
 
It's kinda important here though. Being explicitly limited to a planetary range counts against it having actually infinite energy, as opposed to an unreliable statement/hyperbole, and even then it's High 3-A at best.
 
Im with Dragon on the range stuff. Why would affecting only a particular range disqualify it's AP?

And for the record, I actually do agree Low 2-C is an issue, but stand with High 3-A.
 
How so? Infinite energy =/= Infinite range

And also, how is a statement from the Pokedex, the same thing that gave us Pupitar's mountain-busting ability that we use to scale fully-evolved Pokemon nowadays, unreliable?

Additionally, based on what your saying, what would a suitable range be for its infinite energy?
 
Wokistan said:
Being explicitly limited to a planetary range counts against it having actually infinite energy, as opposed to an unreliable statement/hyperbole
Click to expand...
That's why. If the statement's not only unsubstantiated but outright contradicted...
 
Wokistan said:
Wokistan said:
Being explicitly limited to a planetary range counts against it having actually infinite energy, as opposed to an unreliable statement/hyperbole
Click to expand...
That's why. If the statement's not only unsubstantiated but outright contradicted...
Click to expand...
And like I said, how does its range contradict this statement? Infinite energy =/= Infinite range
 
Honestly just some context would be nice because after reading what little lore there is, I honestly don't see where the universal scaling comes from.


I've seen numerous muguffins in fiction that have: infinite, endless, limitless, etc amounts of energy/power AND can warp time, space, reality, etc yet they don't get tier 2/3 ratings based on that alone, so what makes Eternatus any different?.
 
The Axiom of Virgo said:
I've seen numerous muguffins in fiction that have: infinite, endless, limitless, etc amounts of energy/power AND can warp time, space, reality, etc yet they don't get tier 2/3 ratings based on that alone, so what makes Eternatus any different?.
Click to expand...
Could you give examples then please? Cuz Eternatus is the very first time i've dealt with this at least.
 
How so? Infinite energy =/= Infinite range

It... kinda does though. An infinitely powerful explosion is going to be infinitely large, that's just how releasing this amount of energy works.

And also, how is a statement from the Pokedex, the same thing that gave us Pupitar's mountain-busting ability that we use to scale fully-evolved Pokemon nowadays, unreliable?

Because just because a thing says one right thing doesn't make everything it says unquestionable truth and everything should be scrutinized to see if it holds up?

Additionally, based on what your saying, what would a suitable range be for its infinite energy?

Considering the apparent context of "thing would want to affect more than limited distance and doesn't yet" and "thing apparently has infinite energy", a range infinite across 3 axes.
 
The power null category thing was more because it has 98 categories, with dozens of categories (stuff like "Earth users") being on the profile just because Eternatus nulls it. But I agree that the tabber should just be removed and explained better.
 
Does eternatus have some strange power null mechanic that necessitates listing everything its ever worked against anyways
 
The Pokedex is the literal Pokemon encyclopedia. Generally speaking, its statements aren't hyperboles, and Pokedex entries are typically accepted when considering scaling, especially for the legendaries. It's not just one instance, it's a general trend.

Also, "an infinitely powerful explosion is going to be infinitely large" is not a true statement. It can be true, but range does not have to scale to AP.
 
It just nulls pretty much every Pokemon move, I don't think there's any "strange mechanic" behind it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

CloverDragon03
Gotta Revise 'Em All, Part 2 (Clover Edition): Mainline Game Scaling
5 6 7
Replies
254
Views
14K
CloverDragon03
CloverDragon03
Second22
CMF Garou’s Profile Some Issues
Replies
36
Views
2K
JustANormalPerson01
JustANormalPerson01
Damage3245
  • Locked
One Piece - Issues with temperature of ice
Replies
17
Views
2K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Requiem_Yoriichi
"Outsmarting": What do we do about it?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Requiem_Yoriichi
Requiem_Yoriichi
thetechmaster36
Hyperdimension Neptunia CRT: Game Maker R:Evolution
Replies
33
Views
2K
thetechmaster36
thetechmaster36
Back
Top