Chel vs Jonathan

I'm gonna make Chel fight every Joestar that she can. Assuming she wins, she will go to the next one. I currently know of three

Anyways.

Speed is equal

First key Jonathan

That's all. Go. Winner choose.

Jonathan Joestar:

Chelshia: 1

Inconclusive/Draw:

I was actually gonna make this fight. Could you do me a favor and make it first key Jonathan? I found it to be the best comparison

I meant to do that.

Meant to make it first key? Because if so I'll have up my vote in a bit

Yes. He is first key. That was my intention

Alright. This is gonna be the last thing I make before I go to bed because it's pretty damn late rn but I just have to get into this.

If we take the closest Jonathan has ever been to his second key, meaning after his fight with Bruford and before his fight with Tarkus, he stands a slight better chance, however it should be noted that Jonathan's fightin style isn't exactly all that creative nor does he use Hamon to the best of his abilities during the beginning course of Part 1. In fact, his fighting style seems incredibly basic and doesn't leave much room for variety as he kinda just has flashy attacks with cool sounding names but amount to very little. This form is lacking a lot of things he could do, considering that he doesn't have Zeppeli's strength or otherwise.

Jonathan shows an overwhelming amount of compassion towards his opponents which is going to ultimately be his downfall. Hell, he still tried to make amends with Dio and was sad that he had to actually fight him. ******* Dio, and he's an asshat. To a stranger he doesn't really know he's probably going to feel reluctant still. Remember that he is still in character and he doesn't show himself fighting much to actually injure. He even held back against Speedwagon and I believe against Bruford, and I believe he almost died against Bruford.

His experience is also pretty low. As in, maybe a day or two at most considering Part 1 takes place over the course of not very long at all and most of it was spend fighting people who were mostly having just as simplistic fighting styles as himself. Hell he may have taken hits from Tarkus but it was made abundantly clear that Tarkus was still superior to Jonathan before Zeppeli gave him his strength.

Jonathan also has a pretty shit range, all things considered, and needs Hamon to travel through things tor really hit, however Jonathan doesn't do that much during this form and instead simply punches. I don't recall him channeling Hamon through much besides leaves in the first part of Part 1. Chelshia has a more reliable ranger attack and arguably the better know how on how to fight considering it was literally programmed into her.

Jonathan doesn't fight a lot of enemies back to back iirc, at least not at this time, and I only recall one fight where there was more than one person. Jonathan really isn't skilled when compared to the other jojos. Chelshia has actually fought people with a variety of more powers than Jonathan is too used to, and likely many more years of expeirence, which Jonathan can't say, as Part 1 Dio also hasn't been fighting for long and Tarkus and Bruford he defeated by explicitly exploiting weaknesses which Chelshia doesn't have.

Jonathan also has a showing of him literally trying to block an attack he'd be better off dodging, and this is later in Part 1 as well, where he had a better idea of how to fight, showing that when it comes to blocking or dodging, he'd likely prefer to block which is going to be very unfortunate for him.

Chelshia is also far more maneuverable and used to melee combat, especially people running in to directly punch her, and hit and run tactics aren't exactly out of character. Hamon is gonna sting, but it's durability negation is most effective on the undead and otherwise it's just concentrated sunlight. It hurts humans but not as much as it would effect an undead as far as I know. Aka no organ squelching or anything along those lines.

And then of course we have berserk mode, the thing that could really tip this into her favor. At that point it doesn't really matter what she does because one hit is going to absolutely devastate Jonathan and I was told his healing isn't passive and he needs to actively use Hamon to heal himsel, meaning that it can in fact be interrupted. So...overall he gets pretty screwed.

Chelshia has more variety and less character flaws that would effect combat going for her. Jonathan has just about as much experience as her but not as much of the skill, or the fighting know how to really get her off of her feet or take her by surprise with things he has only at his disposal. He only surprised Dio in Part 1 by using his environment which is something he won't be able to readily do in this area.

And I mean the chest form is also useful because invulnerability and Luck and Pluck will only get him so far but overal it has inferior range compared to Chelshia's attacks as well as her shockwave move which is going to knock Jonathan off balance.

I've been thinking about this fight a lot and I even watched Part 1 so I've had a lot of thinking and deciding to do.

Yea. I'll read through that tomorrow. But one for Chel then

Yeah like I said.

Put a lot of thought into this. Even watched Part 1 so I know generally what I'm talking about

Makes sense. Well. I shall post my last two Chel fights then sleep

You know I've been actively saying on discord I want people to stop making Chelshia matches-

I did not know that. I ain't in your discord. I just knew you wanted to hit 10 wins.

I know I just find it funny.

I'm actually close to getting her her last win on a few matches

And then I decide it's spam time. Makes sense

Good luck on getting literally any votes for them

You'll be surprised.

You'd be surprised on my dedication

>His experience is also pretty low. As in, maybe a day or two at most considering Part 1 takes place over the course of not very long at all and most of it was spend fighting people who were mostly having just as simplistic fighting styles as himself. Hell he may have taken hits from Tarkus but it was made abundantly clear that Tarkus was still superior to Jonathan before Zeppeli gave him his strength.

That's actually wrong, it was cut from the anime but in the manga he trained for weeks under Will in rigourous training much like Joseph had in Part 2, Dio himself a so decided to train in the manga in fact that's how he got the flashfreeze, he trained and got it, by the end of the training Jonathan looked like this.

Jonathan is also extremely skilled due to that training, he's almost as skilled as Will who had something like 30 years of training.

He has took hits from Tarkus, in one case he even grabbed and stopped a blow from him, he's weaker but he's stopped and blocked blows from Tarkus multipole times before getting deep pass hamon.

On another note, Jonathan being compasionate is only really a thing with Dio because he grew up with Dio and still considered him his brother (that's even said on panel on why Jonathan didnt want to fight him, it's explained clearly) despite his evil but still didnt hesitate to vaporize him, not wanting to do soething doesnt mean he'd hesitate. He held back on Speedwagon because he was a human, literally the only reason. Bruford he didnt held back on untill Bruford became a human again, Jonathan actually picked up on this and stopped fighting him because he knew Bruford himself was no longer going to fight Jonathan as well, Bruford actively ceases the fight seconds after Jonathan begins holding back and stops his killing blow on Jonathan mid attack because Bruford gained back his humanity through hamon purifying him. The dude also doesnt give a shit and goes for the kill on any monster or undead without giving it a second thought, see that one villager, Jack, Tarkus, Doobie, Wang, literally every opponent he's fought that wasnt a human, he was also prepared to fight Dire when Dire attacked, a human.

>Aka no organ squelching or anything along those lines.

That's actually one of the few confirmed effects of hamon on those not weak to it. Every single effect of hamon can work on those not weak to it other than Regenerationn negation and the vaporizition. Meaning Jonathan can induce organ failure, mind control, control his target's body, induce instant ko, status effect, etc. If he's super charger with hamon he can induce all of this on contact, whether through him doing cpntact or his opponent doing contact.

>healing isn't passive and he needs to actively use Hamon to heal himsel, meaning that it can in fact be interrupted

It isnt passive but youre mistaken in that it can be interrupted, the healing is instant it just has to be activated, he just needs Hamon to do it. But he's always producing Hamon with every breathe and any Hamon that isnt used right away gets stored in Jonathan's body that can be called on at a whim later, even if Joathan is incapable of breathing, any stored hamon is still usable.

On another note Jonathan actually has the range advantage, Hamon can be channeled through various objects, given SBA is Central Part, a place filled with grass, he can effectively make the entirea area a hamon landmine if he decides to channel hamon through the grass and ground. And for Jonathan not doing it a lot, he's done it in every instance he could or when being in cqc was a bad idea. Example, channeling hamon through the wall to hit Jack, channeling Hamon throgh a cliff to spook Poco, the leaves, channeling Hamon through Bruford's sword, channeling hamon through the water to hit Bruford at range, etc. There's actually plenty of examples. If Jonathan is at a disadvantage at cqc (which he wouldnt be given he just needs one direct hamon blow to win), he can and would be at the advantage at range, even in character.

Okay so, first of all that that training doesn't exactly go under experience because training and experience are two different things, as you can train how to fight for a long time but barely get into an actual, real fight. Also that scan seems to only imply one week of training which still is incredibly low all the same. It also doesn't mean he's as skilled as Will, and you don't really provide reasons to say he's as skilled as Zeppeli you're just stating he is. Also he may have beaten Dio who trained for a week but Chelshia beat people who have received training or combat expeirence for years.

Fair point on the compassion I suppose but even then I don't think Jonathan is going to immediately go for such a brutal kill on an opponent who doesn't outright look like an undead. Based off Part 1 it just doesn't seem too in character for him to do so. Chelshia is clearly not extra evil, and he'd only kill someone or injure the shit out of them if they seem to be a potent evil, EG Tarkus and Dio and several undead

And yet does he know how to or would he do these sort of things in-character? The mind control thing I don't recall him doing pre-overpass, or honestly even post-overpass. Also I was told specifically that the effects of hamon would take longer to someone if they weren't the undead? I don't know if I'm simply being lied to or what but that's just what I've been told.

And yet yes it still needs to be activated, presumably Chelshia could overwhelm and make it so it couldn't be activated, but I guess that's a different story but if it's really low mid than that's a big ew for the fight.

And hamon landmines are generally speaking pretty obvious, what with the whole crackling electricity and such so I'd say it's a bit noticeable and could be avoided if he tries making the whole place a land mine, and either way we don't know if he's just trap the whole battlefield because he don't see him lay traps.

Training isn't experience but what it is is skill (Although Jonathan himself still has experiece given he's fought a bunch of thugs, used to box when he was a kid (Dio as well has plenty of experience fighting, he used to fight all the time in the slums and was considered the best verall in thei group) and was considered quite good at it, fought Bruford a skilled military commander and knight, fought Jack, constant training sesions with Will, has fought a handful of zombies, and has been shown capable of taking on post-training Dio and Tarkus just fine, while not the same key, it's literally only a few hours apart, dude didn't magically get drastically more skilld), Jonathan himself is extremely skilled, he trained for one week, then continued training for at least another, there was a few time skips here and there, we know as such because we can look at the dates certain events happen such as the fall of Windlot or when Jonathan's training began, Jonathan trained for a few weeks, given Jack dies on December 1st and there's actually two weeks of stated training, Wang attacked Jonathan within the second week. Jonathan is arguably even more skilled than Will and in spite of his hamon, managed to fight with Bruford and Tarkus, them being weak to Hamon doesnt take away that Jonathan managed to fight them and was even praised by Bruford, same goes for Dire, who praised Jonathan for his quick thinking, optimal thinking and reaction to the situation he was in. So Chel beating those who have trained for years isnt an advantage when Jonathan has done the same.

You'd be right only if Chel isnt attacking him. Chel is clearly a monster of sorts even if not a zombie (and Dio is capable of creating chimeras, of which Jonathan has no qualms killing) and is attacking him, why would Jonathan not go all out? Why wouldnt he just assume it's one of Dio's monsters sent to defeat him? That's honestly the most obvious thing Jonathan would conclude. If Chel isnt going all out or is trying to be peaceful, he will as well but if Chel shows hostility then he's gonna go all out.

Organ failure, instant unconscious inducement and status effect inducement is a side effect, he cant pick or choose, if he's using his Hamon at max power, that's what will happen if something not weak to Hamon is hit by it. There is no in character here, it's simply a matter of if he's gonna use Hamon while serious, which Jonathan would.

>The mind control thing I don't recall him doing pre-overpass, or honestly even post-overpass.

Literally anyone can do that shit, it's a basic Hamon power, hell Caesar pre-training did it on a random italian chick he was dating just to show off. Although Jonathan did do it on Wang and Doobie's snakes, meaning Will taught him how to do it but it works just fine on anything, see Caesar doing it on a random civilian or Joseph in Part 2.

>Also I was told specifically that the effects of hamon would take longer to someone if they weren't the undead? I don't know if I'm simply being lied to or what but that's just what I've been told.

Whoever told you that is full of shit, unless that person is talking about regen negation or vaporizing the target, every other hamon ability i free game and works fine, in fact some abilities only work on those not weak to it.

>And yet yes it still needs to be activated, presumably Chelshia could overwhelm and make it so it couldn't be activated, but I guess that's a different story but if it's really low mid than that's a big ew for the fight.

What are you on about? You're trying to say Chel could overwhelm Jonathan to the point he cant think hey it's time to heal then just heal, it's thought based as long as Jonathan has enough Hamon to do it. Jonathan being overwhelmed isnt gonna stop him from healing unless he has 0 Hamon stored and is incapable of breathing, if neither are true then he can heal instantly. His healing can heal shattered bones, flesh wounds and broken necks.

Landmine was a analogy, in reality he can just make it so the entire area is a giant **** you zone that simply stepping on it induces Hamon effects. It being noticeable doesnt mean it's avoidable, especially because it can be sent through the ground then come out under the opponent. Not withstanding that if Jonathan is charged with Hamon, simply touching him will induce the Hamon effects, meaning if Jonathan is fully charged (which is a high possibility, the dude is trained to be able to keep his hamon breathing subconsciously, even while 'sleeping), Chel making contact with him could be tandamount to suicide.

British Kenshiro fra, also just wanna say these explanations you guys are making is fantastic kudos to you both

I mean based off all this I dunno how the f Chelshia can pull a win so this sounds stompy.

Which makes me question her fight with Joseph as well if he's capable of the same shit but also is just more than Jonathan

She could probably beat Jonathan afer 1 week of training, two weeks though, specifically past December 1st as that's when he learns about a few key Hamon attributes.

Depends on what Joseph, Joseph has a bunch of Hamon effects but pre-training while he's capable of hamon and knows quite a bit about it, he doesnt know everything and just pulls shut out his ass as he goes, it's not till after Lisa Lisa trains him that he is skilled and knows the full extent of what Hamon can do (he also has trouble of focusing hamon due to lack of training early on). But at the same time Joseph is king of the asspulls so it balances out.

So...what, OP has to specify? Because if it's two weeks it apparently sounds like a stomp.

Idk, Two weeks of training, specifically post Jack he probably takes it, while only 1 week he probably loses as Will had yet to of taught him the basics fully, including things can be used as a conduit and hamon can phase or even basic shit like the zoom punch. 1 week Jonathan only knows about hamon passing through organic matter, hamon and water are a good combo, healing (only minor healing though like broken bones and necrotic flesh), pain negation, what it can do on those weak to it, plus some stat ampng.

Hrmmmm.

you see this is where the Op basically picks the winner

Oh dear. I missed a lot

It's basically come down to you picking who wins or who stomps

Me? Nani? Da heck did I miss?

Post Jack+Two week training Jonathan wins, pre-that Chel probably stomps.

Pick your poison.

Basically if it's Jonathan after like his two weeks of training he essentially stomps, if it's one week of training Chelshia probably wins but the other option is a stomp so

Chariot190 said:

Post Jack+Two week training Jonathan wins, pre-that Chel probably stomps.
Pick your poison.

Click to expand...

Not really wins Jonathan just stomps if Chel can't get close

She can get close, it'd just ultimately backfire as he only needs one clean blow to win (and if he's serious, direct contact is likely lethal, it's like touching an electric fence, not exact but it's a analogy). Him doing AOE isnt his lead, but it'd happen if Chel tries to play the range game, in which he has the clear advantage in.

Well, I had set this up with the first key as his usage. But if both of those are like in the first key, am I even allowed to do that?

I mean idk.

In his first key there's him pre-hamon where he's superhuman and that's it, there's him in week 1 of his training where he's learning the basics but hasnt learned a lot of the main important things (Zoom Punch was learnt at the 1 week mark), then there's 2 weeks of training where he knows the basics and a bunch of random abilities and then there's Post-Jack which is basically the same but he's fully aware that he can channel and phase Hamon through solid objects and can use things as a conduit. That's all in his first key. His first key is like a month of time (counting the time he was being taken care of by erina).

I don't think I'm even allowed to change that. That's like if I used Kid Goku, but specifically pre to him getting his Megajoule feat. Or using Hank but like the first episode of hank. Unless it's separated into Keys, and has reason too, i don't think that's allowed

idk you could probably do pre-Hamon but that's a stomp.

Is a stomp post? Can't do it if it's a stomp

Definitely a stomp post overpass

Well rip this fight then