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Dragon Ball Possible Upgrades

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Ionliosite said:
What is El Manga Legendario and why should we take it as canon?
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The El Manga Legendario is an official Latin American guidebook, licensed by Shueisha. It's typically seen as the most reliable guide alongside the Daizenshuu, with information that backs up statements made by previous guides (Vegeta being a planet buster, Full Power Super Saiyan being equal to First Grade in power, that kind of stuff), as well as new statements to bring light to certain subjects (Super Saiyan Third Grade being 10x Second Grade, and Super Saiyan Gohan surpassing Cell at that time).
 
@Spinoirr Feel free to do so. I haven't seen the Japanese scans so... Maybe they prove it.

This revision is a amalgamation of everything that is contradictory to the series bar the first upgrade attempt, which seems reasonable. While the other stuff afterward is... I'm not going to say impossible, but good luck attempting to argue such as it's caused so much havoc it isn't even funny.

I don't personally mind XV/Heroes reaching 2-A, but I prefer them being uber 2-Bs honestly.
 
For the first point, Gohan doesn't try to talk him out because his Super Saiyan form is stronger, it's because he knows he can become much stronger with rage, Goku even mentions earlier that "the sleeping power deep within [Gohan] began to awaken in the Room of Spirit and Time." Even with Super Saiyan, Gohan is no match for Cell without using this afformentioned power, which is also confirmed by a chapter guide within the manga.

In conclusion, Gohan's Super Saiyan form doesn't surpass Cell even at his supressed level. Also, this chapter seems to imply Cell's full power is quite a bit greater than the one he used against Super Saiyan Goku and Gohan.

I have no real contention with Moon level Goku, but I completely disagree with Planet level. Goku in his fight with Piccolo had an unknown power level, against Piccolo it was 416. Basically, we can't say the Super Kamehameha used against Piccolo was as strong as the one he used against Raditz, especially since there was a 5 year gap between the two events. Also, the 910 statement does refer to Goku's Super Kamehameha against Raditz, not piccolo, as you can see by the picture.

I once again have no contention with the God tier stuff, there's even a guide that calls all Universe 7's individual parts "hermetically sealed" from each other. However, the "as wide as the universe" flowerfield part comes from the Dragon Ball Z anime (250-ish, IIRC), which is the filler scene where Videl, Bulma and Chi Chi are in the afterlife with Dabura, and it's never even brought up in Super or occurs in Kai. Also, Tarble isn't filler, he's from Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!!, an OVA that also has a manga adaptation.

I'm not going to comment on the Xeno stuff, because I know nothing about it.
 
It's a Spanish Guidebook that was officially licensed by Toei and Akira Toryama.

If it is accepted by Toriyama, then I agree with using it.
 
If Earth, in the Universe of the Living World, is spaced hermetically apart from the World of the Kais, in the Kaiou Realm of the World Beyond, by a sealed section of the macrocosm, and Goku and Beerus' shockwaves were able to reach the planet, what speed would they have? Is it still just Massively FTL+?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
If Earth, in the Universe of the Living World, is spaced hermetically apart from the World of the Kais, in the Kaiou Realm of the World Beyond, by a sealed section of the macrocosm, and Goku and Beerus' shockwaves were able to reach the planet, what speed would they have? Is it still just Massively FTL+?
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Yes but they would probably have Low Multiversal Range in that case.
 
I agree with Asura's points. I feel Gohan could be Large Star Level+ and the Heroes stuff definitely needs more evidence, otherwise the Fragmentation Super Kamehameha is fine and so should the Super stuff.
 
Yes, and it could be potentially upgrade them to higher level, since the shockwaves where able to travel across multiple universal distances (since the Living World and Afterlife have universal sizes). Although, if the endless/infinite size of the DB universe is accepted, then it could give DBS characters possible Infinite Speed, but its very unlikely.
 
I admit, infinite and High Universe level were a bit of strength. The universe was stated to be "endless and expansive" rather than infinite, which is a mistake on my part. This most likely means that it's simply growing in size all the time.
 
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3724258

I did create this thread a while back for DB upgrade. It used the El Manga Legendario. The scans spacifically used where ones about Roshi and his moon feat. The guidebook on two occasions refers to the feat (along with other material), and clearly uses it as a benchmark for his strength. I linked the two scans, while the other scans are on the original thread.
 
Yes but they would probably have Low Multiversal Range in that case.
Stefano4444 said:
Yes, and it could be potentially upgrade them to higher level, since the shockwaves where able to travel across multiple universal distances (since the Living World and Afterlife have universal sizes)...
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I just picked up on this little bit, but the Kaiou Realm, where the World of the Kai is, has a different spacetime continum than the Universe, and if Kibito Kai and Elder Kai were able to feel the shockwaves in the same timeframe everyone else was able to feel the shockwaves, wouldn't that be moving faster than time, which is Immeasurable?

And would this scale to the Toeiverse with feats like Janemba shaping Hell and the Emma Realm via his Reality Warping (2-C), Goku being able to shake Hell and the Emma Realm by powering up (?), Broly destroying a large portion of South Quadrant (3-B), Boohan's Vice Shout, if this does scale to the Toeiverse since VSBW doesn't consider it canon to Super, (2-C), et cetera. Would it increase speed as well, since this would make Goku and Pikkon's crossing from Grand Kai's place to Hell a feat of them crossing dimensions (Immeasurable maybe).

I saw a thread that stated in Battle of Gods (the movie), Goku and Beerus shook the entire Universe, which contains all of these dimensions and spacetime continua. Would that boost them from Multi-Galaxy level as many people state [yes, I know they don't have pages, but eh. It's fun.] And lastly, does it scale to the Dragon Ball Chou (the Dragon Ball Super manga)?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I just picked up on this little bit, but the Kaiou Realm, where the World of the Kai is, has a different spacetime continum than the Universe, and if Kibito Kai and Elder Kai were able to feel the shockwaves in the same timeframe everyone else was able to feel the shockwaves, wouldn't that be moving faster than time, which is Immeasurable?
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No, travel between different dimensions/space-times isn't enough to make someone Immeasurable.

For doing something like that, the shockwaves would have to travel back/further in time via raw speed (like Flash).
 
Nullflowerblush said:
And would this scale to the Toeiverse with feats like Janemba shaping Hell and the Emma Realm via his Reality Warping (2-C), Goku being able to shake Hell and the Emma Realm by powering up (?), Broly destroying a large portion of South Quadrant (3-B), Boohan's Vice Shout, if this does scale to the Toeiverse since VSBW doesn't consider it canon to Super, (2-C), et cetera. Would it increase speed as well, since this would make Goku and Pikkon's crossing from Grand Kai's place to Hell a feat of them crossing dimensions (Immeasurable maybe).
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- Unfortunately there isn't enough evidence that prove that the entirety of Hell had be reality warped by Janemba.

- Broly only destroyed one galaxy for what i remember, not the entire quadrant.

- I do think the Buuhan's Vice Shot is legitimate , but it should be only Low 2-C since Buuhan has only affect the Living World and some unknown dimensions, and only when enraged.

But it should scale to SSj Vegito since he was able to shatter Buuhan's barrier which had be stated that was going to protect Buuhan's most his own move, and this beside the fact that he possess SSj2 and SSj3 which would definitely putting him above Buuhan's Vice Shot.
 
No one in DB is getting Immeasurable speed, period. Infinite would only count if we either accept the Heroes Multiverse 2-A or take the Demon Realm being timeless seriously (this last one is extremely unlikely). Flying across universes is only Massively FTL+ unless said multiverse is infinite, and we know canon DB multiverse only has 12 universes.
 
Honestly it sorta should, it would fix the whole Low 2-C times 2 issue completely as a side benefit and based on the arguement it fits far better than regular universal did
 
Hey I've been wondering, Shouldn't Super Buu be 3-A via Vice Shout? Or at least count it as Environment Damage (Which is everything so still does the same thing) as it was Buu who's the direct cause of the Dimensions collapsing into the normal Universe.

Or do we not have an Anime Buu profile thingie
 
There's literally a discussion about NOT trying to upgrade Dragon Ball because all arguments have been heard to death and the staff is tired of dealing with them.
 
Does that matter? He was opening rifts to the point that the Universe was becoming destabilized and was going to be crushed by all those Dimensions; Buu caused the rifts to open and had a shield to protect himself from the destruction of the Universe. It'd sort of be like I won't be 9-B if I had a gun because it's not me that's doing it. It doesn't work that way, I did a thing and that thing triggered another thing to do damage.
 
If I tip someone over with my foot, I won't scale to the GPE of their fall. >90% of that energy is from gravity doing its work.

Boo opened countless rifts, weakening the dimensional barriers enough for other dimensions to just tear through them. He did a fraction of a fraction of the feat.
 
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