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Dragon Ball Revision

PowerToScale

PowerToScale

2,433
1,163
I have noticed that Master Roshi's placed City Block Level for "At least City Block level (Almost in the same level as Tien Shinha in the 22nd Budokai)", which I feel is wrong. Master Roshi has shown a greater feat than that should put him up higher. Master Roshi was able to destroy the Moon as shown here .

This would usually be brushed off as an outlier, however, the feat itself is consitantly reference and backed up in guidebooks, as shown here , here and here. The feat itself is clearly used as a benchmark for Master Roshi's strength. Also, Goku's Kamehameha is also stated to be able to shatter the moo , acting as further supporting evidence.

It may be said that this feat is contradicted by later feats by the likes of King Piccolo who is stronger but has lesser level feats. However, these feats are heavily implied as super casual feats, 1 and 2, even his current "City level" ranking wouldn't make sense as he does it with a simple wave of his hand . King Piccolo also states that he could destroy the whole world. taking into consideration how Roshi's moon feat is treated as a benchmark for him, it wouldn't be too far fetched he could.

Naturally, all charatcers than scale to them would also gain the same ranking. I propose the following changes:

Roshi: Moon Level (destoryed the moon, and the feat is by official souces).

King Piccolo: At least Moon Level, possibly Planet Level (stronger than Master Roshi who busted a moon. Also stated to be able to destroy the whole world)

Goku: At least Moon Level, possibly Planet Level (Greater than Roshi who busted a moon, defeated king piccolo who is greater than Roshi and also stated to be able to destroy the whole world)

There are probably more characters that might scale to them, however, these three are the main ones that come into mind.
 
I agree with Moon level, but I doubt it'll be accepted here.

Master Roshi's feat is backed up by Goku's Kamehameha being stated to shatter the moon and in guidebooks. King Piccolo's city level feat was infact casual, he himself stated it was by a simple wave of his hand, and that he could destroy the planet if he wanted too.

There is no reason for him to be lying.
 
During the time Roshi first destroyed the moon, it was a huge outlier with the other feats. It's not until the Saiyan saga that planetary feats are introduced back into the series. We consider Roshi as moon level at Saiyan Saga, but not during early Dragon Ball.
 
Firestorm808 said:
During the time Roshi first destroyed the moon, it was a huge outlier with the other feats. It's not until the Saiyan saga that planetary feats are introduced back into the series. We consider Roshi as moon level at Saiyan Saga, but not during early Dragon Ball.
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Yeah. And that's what this Content Revision is attempting to revise.

I personally agree with the proposed revisions. Even with Piccolo's "Strongest attack", there is absolutely 0 reason why Piccolo doesn't subscribe to the modern-day excuse of "Condensed Damage" where damage is localized to an area (Kamehameha is noted to focus Ki into a condensed Area and so does Big Bang Attack to an even greater extent). There is absolutely 0 reason why Piccolo's Blast wouldn't also do this to at least some degree.

That along with the innumerable Guidebook scans that says it is indeed Moon-busting alongside Goku's Super Kamehameha (Also noted to be Moon-busting) only lends credit to the fact that Master Roshi was in fact Moon Busting.
 
I just want to say that the moon feat can probably be calc'ed using violent Frag, pulv, or vaporization. Which could lower the tier or raise it
 
I would of said outlier too, if it weren't for the emphasis on the feat itself. Guidebooks use it as a showing of his strength. Mutiple sources support the feat as being legit. Plus it was done by a MAX kamehameha, Roshi using his full power, not a hafled ass one.

If anything, Roshi and Goku should at least be Moon level with kamehameha, we know that Ki based attacks are much greater than normal attacks.

There is the arguement of "we don't see the feats till saiyan saga". However we don't see a planet busting feat between the Frieza arc to the Buu saga, we only get statements, while Goku was scared of Buu using an attack that would destroy the earth 10 times over (according to the dub, sub is just planet). Which would be (using earth gbe): 2.487e32x10= 2.487e+33 Planet level

My point is that there are clearly large breaks or gaps between whenever feats of planets or celestial bodies are being destroyed, so why would the roshi feat be treated differnetly when there is more evidence back it to be legit.
 
PowerToScale said:
I would of said outlier too, if it weren't for the emphasis on the feat itself. Guidebooks use it as a showing of his strength. Mutiple sources support the feat as being legit. Plus it was done by a MAX kamehameha, Roshi using his full power, not a hafled ass one.

If anything, Roshi and Goku should at least be Moon level with kamehameha, we know that Ki based attacks are much greater than normal attacks.

There is the arguement of "we don't see the feats till saiyan saga". However we don't see a planet busting feat between the Frieza arc to the Buu saga, we only get statements, while Goku was scared of Buu using an attack that would destroy the earth 10 times over (according to the dub, sub is just planet). Which would be (using earth gbe): 2.487e32x10= 2.487e+33 Planet level

My point is that there are clearly large breaks or gaps between whenever feats of planets or celestial bodies are being destroyed, so why would the roshi feat be treated differnetly when there is more evidence back it to be legit.
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The thing is King Piccolo would scale.
 
I'm skipping over most of these replies so correct me if I'm wrong on anything that's already been discussed, but I disagree with moon level Roshi. I feel like the first moon buster in DB was Teen Goku. The power levels are a bit confusing, but via scaling, Teen Goku is massively superior to Roshi. Roshi described himself as basically a joke compared to King Piccolo, King Piccolo was getting smacked around by post UDW Goku (only reason King Piccolo really did much is because he's an unfair fighter), Goku post-KP fight (who probably had a Zenkai Boost if Toriyama already invented it at the time) was getting casually knocked around by Popo, who described himself as a mouse in comparison to Kami, supported by Kami casually flicking away Goku, in the 23rd Budokai, Kami was significantly weaker than Piccolo Jr. who I believe was both weighted and suppressed against him, Kami's only chance of winning was the Mafuba, and Piccolo just redirected it. Teen Goku Vs. Piccolo Jr. was similar to Goku Vs. King Piccolo. Teen Goku was much stronger than Picollo Jr. and was knocking him around without that much difficulty, the only reason Piccolo Jr. did much in the fight was because he used Kami as a hostage and later exploited Goku's habit of dropping his guard by blasting him through the chest when he wasn't expecting it. Via scaling, it's clear that Teen Goku is much, much higher than Roshi, so Teen Goku being capable of moon busting doesn't support Roshi being capable of, oh and Teen Goku being a moon buster is supported by Piccolo (start of Z) obliterating the moon (the gap between end of DB to start of Z Goku and Piccolo isn't that large based on what we know). However, I also feel like the gap is too small for Roshi's mountain feat to only place him at mountain level, so while I do consider his moon feat a complete outlier, I do think he is above mountain level. Personally, I'd rate King Piccolo as continent level scaling from Teen Goku and based on his statement to be capable of destroying "the entire world" (although I feel like he was mainly referring to humanity as a whole, or maybe surface wiping rather than actually destroying the Earth entirely), with Roshi at large island to small country level.
 
The Kamehameha focuses and amplifies their power level. Goku was 416 vs Raditz and he let out a Kamehameha that registered 924 (an increase of 2.22). Piccolo casually busts the moon at 322 (wearing weights, random ki blast that doesn't even get an attack name) - which got him a Planet level rating here.

The question then becomes, how strong was Roshi at the 21st WMAT (the earliest number we have for him is 139 at the 22nd WMAT). As a rival of Master Shen and being strong enough to still take down Goku, Roshi should be about 120 PL. If he can concentrate his ki to at least the extent of Goku (2.22x) this would make his Kamehameha 266 PL (even if he just doubles it, he'd be 240). If casual 322 is Planet level, then shouldn't 266 be Moon level (considering there's Small Planet in between)?
 
ChemistKyle89 said:
The Kamehameha focuses and amplifies their power level.
Click to expand...
Actually, I think that's not necessarily how Ki blasts work. Fighters in Dragon Ball are constantly surrounding their entire body, including likely the insides of their body, with Ki, whenever they're on guard, such as in combat. Ki blasts focus the Ki into a single point and fire it. When the scouter is scanning their power levels when using Ki blasts, it's most likely focused on the point where all of the Ki is gathering, rather than the fighter, themselves. You could, in a way, consider their Ki blast power levels as their focused or maximum power levels, because their normal power levels are spread across their entire body rather than being focused at a single point, which would make it seem even higher. Actually, I believe this is stated a couple times, the first when Yamcha is explaining the Kamehameha before Roshi uses it for the first time. Yamcha, iirc, describes it as focusing all of a fighters latent energy into a single spot and releasing it all at once. And the second time being in the Raditz fight itself, where Raditz describes the Kamehameha as Goku concentrating all of his energy into one spot.
 
Well DBZ Kakarot shows Goku image training with end of DB Piccolo plus Roshi said they've been slacking off when it came to training, so Goku and co are barely stronger than they were before.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Why is Piccolo blowing up the moon considered an anti feat if it was never shown on screen?
Click to expand...
What? First, wdym "anti feat", do you mean you mean an outlier? And wdym "if it was never shown on screen"? It WAS shown on screen.
 
Damage3245 said:
This has already been discussed to death. Master Roshi's feat is accepted as an outlier here.
I'm not seeing any new evidence here that would change that.
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tbf depending on the calc result it might be different, since piccolo's moon bust got calced at 5-A.
 
What? First, wdym "anti feat", do you mean you mean an outlier? And wdym "if it was never shown on screen"? It WAS shown on screen.

The actual explosion itself wasn't shown on the panel.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
What? First, wdym "anti feat", do you mean you mean an outlier? And wdym "if it was never shown on screen"? It WAS shown on screen.
Click to expand...
The actual explosion itself wasn't shown on the panel.
If we're going with manga exclusively, meaning not counting the anime, then sure it wasn't shown on panel, but I don't think that really matters, we know he destroyed it, and in another panel we get another shot of the sky and don't see a single trace of the moon left, so why would that make it an invalid feat at all? By that logic, shouldn't Zeno destroying universes 13-18 be considered an outlier, since we never actually see it?

If I'm misunderstanding your earlier reply that I responded to, then my bad, but in that case, you should try to be more specific, because I was confused and still am.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Wait a sec. do you think Roshi's feat is an outlier?
Click to expand...
Yes. And if you're gonna ask why, it's because Roshi has never, before and after that point, performed anything near that level throughout DB, DBZ, or DBGT, only beginning to show even better feats in DBS, after training again. The next two times we get moon level stuff is in the 23rd Budokai with Teen Goku being stated as capable of shattering the moon, and Piccolo doing it at the start of Z, but that means little when it comes to Roshi.

Goku (Start of Z)>Piccolo (Start of Z)>Teen Goku (23rd Budokai)>>Piccolo Jr. (23rd Budokai)>>Kami>>>Popo>>>Goku (Post-King Piccolo)>>King Piccolo>>Old King Piccolo>>Roshi.
 
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