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Revising the Naruto God Tiers (Staff Only)

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Damage3245

Damage3245

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This thread has been a long time coming, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is one of the most controversial threads I've created to date. In order for this to proceed as smoothly as possible, I would appreciate it if people could keep things civil.

Problem
The main issue is that the majority of the characters listed are rated as 5-B now because of a single 5-B calc, which is the calc of Hagoromo and Hamura sending the Moon from the planet's surface to orbit over an unknown period of time.

The calc assumes timeframes that range from 10 minutes, to 30 minutes, to an hour. And currently the 30 minute timeframe is what is accepted.

This is a problematic calc as there simply isn't a solid basis for accepting this timeframe as accurate. As the calc itself states, we don't have a timeframe for the feat. The feat has always taken place off-screen, with minimal details being given for it. We could invent any kind of timeframe for it. Due to this unreliability, I don't think it is right that all of the God Tiers are considered to be Planet level because of it.

I cannot think of a method of improving the calc that doesn't involve guesswork for the timeframe.

So what is the solution?

Proposal
My primary proposal would be that we consider the calc to be inapplicable for the scaling and instead rate the characters using these four calcs instead:

This means that the majority of ratings would go from 5-B to 5-C. The specifics of which character scales exactly to which value can be open for discussion.

I want to note that there is also this version of the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei calc created by Jvando:

However I believe that this calc falls under a similar problem as the Hagoromo & Hamura calc. There isn't enough justification for the timeframe aside from the belief that the feat occurred over a short period of time.

So, assuming we go with the Potential Energy version of the calc. We would have three 5-C calcs to use for scaling, instead of one highly questionable 5-B calc.

Characters
The list of characters potentially affected by this revision are:

Conclusions So Far
Consensus has been to get rid of the previous Hagoromo/Hamura calc.

The remaining decision to make is whether the Potential Energy version or Kinetic Energy version of Naruto and Sasuke's feat is more suitable for use.
 
The PE calc you used doesnt fit with the context of the feat since it would mean it too 7-9 minutes for said feat to take place.
 
You should prolly contact TataHakai to get more deets.

That being said, I'm gonna remain neutral and this should prolly be staff-only.
 
KLOL506 said:
You should prolly contact TataHakai to get more deets.
That being said, I'm gonna remain neutral and this should prolly be staff-only.
Click to expand...
I had considered making it staff-only. I'll check with Antvasima to see if that is the best idea.
 
Long time to not see a Nardo thread. My only words regarding this:

If the feat is 100% off screen in the manga (such as someone state that "they created the Moon" without any other context or panel) then the Timeframe is pretty inaccurate.
 
There are also not many staff Naruto detractors, Wrath, so that's a nonfactor for your point realistically.

That said, the main point of an assumed timeframe seems legitimate and the numbers are indeed arbitrarily pulled from thin air.

This almost seems a calc group thing moreso than a general discussion, since assumptions for timeframes of calcs is the base idea for accepting/denying your posited assertion, Damage.

That being said, yeah if theres no absurdly sound logical basis for a calcs timeframe then go with the calc that doesnt make such presumptions
 
There's literally no Naruto Staff suporters and you look and find for Naruto revisions to downplay without even having knowledge about the verse.

Jesus Christ.
 
Also let's not forget this calc was already accepted and discussed by a lot of staff and clac group members.

It's entirely possible that u are bringing up arguments that have been debunked and you should really go check the provoke crts for 5B before making a crt for it
 
@AstralKing7; well, the calc wouldn't be being used in the first place without being previously accepted. So I think we're all aware of that.
 
The closest thing we have to even getting a Time is by using a filler, which might as well be canon at this point as there is nothing else to work with and that's all they are going to give us.
 
The Calc can be accepted but this don't remove the context behind the feat, it you calculated something wrong, the math will be fine but the logic of the calc not.

That's my opinion tho.
 
Are u aware of the arguments??? That's what my comment was about don't only attack one part of it


And 5B isn't going anywhere the writers and Kodachi already got Naruto as planet level themselves with the statement about the planet busting TbB from adult Naruto

So yeah lol "highly inconsistent"
 
Bro we got Databooks, Scans, Calcs and people still downplay Naruto lmao.... Like how you literally go against what an Author says?

And there used to be a mod here who used to do the same stuff and get banned and im smelling his odor all over this post.
 
How about instead of nom sequitur assaults on the OP and the posited assertion, we stick to discussing the actual idea put forth.

Are the accepted calcs more consistent when we accept the arbitrary timeframes for the singular 5B feat are inadequate, yes or no?
 
How about we go against what the author says for a lot of series because what the author intended and what actually happens in the show many times is contradictory? Naruto is not special and the only one with this issue.

If you have a problem with that, change our standards. Otherwise you are bringing up literally nothing worth mention. Accusing people gets no shit done and it's been pretty freaking rampant in any Naruto related thread and is getting annoying.
 
"Going against what the author says"

Remember when this argument was ridiculed when it was said about Saitama's true power being half big-bang level? (I mean the statement was made up but still)

Remember when half of Bill's authorial states stuff got removed even though the AMA was in the perspective of Bill himself?

Remember the giant mess that was the authorial statement justifying 3-A Dante before other stuff was found?
 
Xulrev said:
How about instead of nom sequitur assaults on the OP and the posited assertion, we stick to discussing the actual idea put forth.
Are the accepted calcs more consistent when we accept the arbitrary timeframes for the singular 5B feat are inadequate, yes or no?
Click to expand...


It isn't assults at all I literally had to remind him or better yet teach him about different lore and what happened in Naruto. If you are not well knowledged in the verse whats the point of you trying to revise it? Makes no sense and the person trying to do so is very unrelieable.
 
Is assuming timeframes for stuff like this even really allowed? Idk how manga does it on the site but I do know I've seen stuff I'd have wanted to calc but couldn't due to no timeframe. Is it considered legal to defer to how long the anime shows it as?
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
How about we go against what the author says for a lot of series because what the author intended and what actually happens in the show many times is contradictory? Naruto is not special and the only one with this issue.
If you have a problem with that, change our standards. Otherwise you are bringing up literally nothing worth mention. Accusing people gets no shit done and it's been pretty freaking rampant in any Naruto related thread and is getting annoying.
Click to expand...
If you are getting annoyed leave. It isn't just the Author, its the feats as well and the Databooks. I said it was reminisent that is all. I've accused no one of nothing. Do not put words in my mouth.

rem┬Ài┬Ànis┬Àcent

/╦îremə╦ênis(ə)nt/

adjective

  1. tending to remind one of something.
 
@Wokistan; it really shouldn't be allowed, especially for a feat as important as this.

Timeframes need a reasonable basis, and if your guesswork involves going from 10 minutes to an hour, then you really don't have a solid calc.

As for the anime, that doesn't show the full feat either - so it wouldn't work either way.
 
Celestial Judge said:
It isn't assults at all I literally had to remind him or better yet teach him about different lore and what happened in Naruto. If you are not well knowledged in the verse whats the point of you trying to revise it? Makes no sense and the person trying to do so is very unrelieable.
Click to expand...
This is the definition of an attempted Poisoning the Well attwmpt and why I insist we actually discuss the issue at hand and not engage non sequitur. Please desist
 
Astral comments like that do not help at all. Having read the thread, it would seem that the instigators in this case have been you guys, bleach people and non anime people (me) haven't really done anything yet. It'll go better for everyone if we don't start with that sort of argument.
 
The real cal howard said:
"Going against what the author says"
Remember when this argument was ridiculed when it was said about Saitama's true power being half big-bang level? (I mean the statement was made up but still)

Remember when half of Bill's authorial states stuff got removed even though the AMA was in the perspective of Bill himself?

Remember the giant mess that was the authorial statement justifying 3-A Dante before other stuff was 1. found?
Click to expand...
  1. 1 Made up therefore irrelevant
unaware of #2

  1. 3 People need to look for more information next time.
Does not sound like the Authors fault in the 1st and 3rd case. Only the researchers. lmao.
 
How about you stop annoying me doing needless crap like accusations or talking about authorial intent when we use it in a case to case basis? Don't even try with needless word play after directly saying people wanna downplay Naruto.

**** it, do whatever the hell you want. Not gonna deal with another pain in the ass Naruto thread when is always the same stupid mess.
 
You guys are making it sound like everything surrounding this is 5-B. Let me say why it isn't, as the only thing it has going for it is the calc itself.

Scans: The scans are supposed to show moon creation, which is 5-C. The scan isn't going for a planetary scale.

Databook: Same as above. Even the databooks aren't saying that "Hagoromo moves the moon at Mach 40000" or something like that to justify the planet stuff. Also 5-C.

Feat: With Damage's calc, the feat itself isn't 5-B anymore.
 
Wokistan said:
Astral comments like that do not help at all. Having read the thread, it would seem that the instigators in this case have been you guys, bleach people and non anime people (me) haven't really done anything yet. It'll go better for everyone if we don't start with that sort of argument.
Click to expand...
@Damage literally goes around downplaying naruto with only having bareminnimum knowledge on the verse. That makes no sense and is very unreliable when it comes to an index which this site aims to be.

Do people go to Dr. Phil as a mentor on Astrology? no.

Do people go to Dr. Oz for mentorship on Paintint? no.
 
I moved this to the staff forum.
 
@Celestial Judge; by repeatedly attacking me as someone who "goes around downplaying naruto with only having bareminnimum knowledge on the verse", I'll take that as a silent admission on your part that you cannot refute the arguments themselves and have to rely on personal attacks.
 
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