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Revising the Naruto God Tiers (Staff Only)

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The real cal howard said:
You guys are making it sound like everything surrounding this is 5-B. Let me say why it isn't, as the only thing it has going for it is the calc itself.
Scans: The scans are supposed to show moon creation, which is 5-C. The scan isn't going for a planetary scale.

Databook: Same as above. Even the databooks aren't saying that "Hagoromo moves the moon at Mach 40000" or something like that to justify the planet stuff. Also 5-C.

Feat: With Damage's calc, the feat itself isn't 5-B anymore.
Click to expand...
Most of this his arguement has already been disgused and debunked time to move on.
 
On the topic of the author statements, a good example of this is Parahumans (Verse). Wildbow likes to wank his characters lol. If we took his author statements at face value we'd get stuff like 4-C Behemoth (Worm), 4-A/3-A Eidolo, low 2-C durability Alexandria (Worm), etc. Due to stuff like that not heing supported in the actual work we don't use it. Death of the author is nothing new, and it holds that an authors interpretation wouldn't inherently have more value than any other. Due to writing the series they're gonna have the most info and will still usually be fairly reliable, but the stuffs gotta be supporedt by the media.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Celestial Judge; by repeatedly attacking me as someone who "goes around downplaying naruto with only having bareminnimum knowledge on the verse", I'll take that as a silent admission on your part that you cannot refute the arguments themselves and have to rely on personal attacks.
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It's literally been talked about years ago, its already been debunked what are you talking about.
 
Okay everyone - the thread has been moved to be staff only. I would appreciate it if any non-staff commentors could direct their comments to a member of staff if they need some input.
 
The real cal howard said:
Imagine comparing getting a scientific degree requiring years of study to reading a fictional series about magical ninjas.
Click to expand...
My Dattebayo Doctorate finally has a time to shine

I still maintain that Damages position is the most logically sound. Everything else skirts logic to favor biased positions and cannot engage a simple question such as "Why are these timeframes valid"

edit: apologies didnt notice it was moved to staff only. I maintain my position and my argumentation herein and consider this my final reply on the matter, thanks
 
The real cal howard said:
Imagine comparing getting a scientific degree requiring years of study to reading a fictional series about magical ninjas.
Click to expand...
It was about being knowledgable about the topic. Sorry that was to difficult for you to understand.
 
diLSirLancelotDuLacl said:
How about you stop annoying me doing needless crap like accusations or talking about authorial intent when we use it in a case to case basis? Don't even try with needless word play after directly saying people wanna downplay Naruto.
**** it, do whatever the hell you want. Not gonna deal with another pain in the ass Naruto thread when is always the same stupid mess.
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I didn't tag you in anything lmao you are making yourself mad my guy. Relax its only anime.
 
@Celestial Judge; the thread is staff-only now.
 
them moving the moon is the same as sasuke moving the chibaku tensei's with the bijuu in them. he could move them at MHS speeds, easily. Hagoromo doing the same, with help, is 100% accurate.
 
@Lorenzo; this thread is staff-only. And Sasuke did not move them at MHS speeds. There is no accepted calc for that.

And even if there was, there is nothing connecting Sasuke's feat to their feat anyway. You can't scale them to it.
 
Thinking that the speed remains constant when the mass doesn't is completely untrue and without fundamentals, though. The Bijuu aren't even close to comparable to the size of the moon. Also this is staff only Lorenzo so send a comment to an admin instead of commenting here, this will be my last comment as well.

@Celestial We could we talking about roasted beef and I couldn't care. Debate the point and don't argue needless stuff. This may be a hobby, but a shitty way to answer remains annoying.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
Thinking that the speed remains constant when the mass doesn't is completely untrue and without fundamentals, though. The Bijuu aren't even close to comparable to the size of the moon. Also this is staff only Lorenzo so send a comment to an admin instead of commenting here, this will be my last comment as well.
@Celestial We could we talking about roasted beef and I couldn't care. Debate the point and don't argue needless stuff. This may be a hobby, but a shitty way to answer remains annoying.
Click to expand...
Everything you are saying is needless stuf because I wasn't talking to you. Again if you are going to get annoyed leave. I honestly could give one shit what annoys you my guy lol.
 
@Shadow; for the first calc you linked, that was re-calced by Alex which I've linked above in the OP. The two Toneri feats are now both 5-C.

As for the second calc, as far as I can remember it's never been accepted / implemented in any CRT. It's also based on an oudated method of scaling from the curvature of the planet which I'm 99% sure we shouldn't be using anymore.
 
Anyway, if all Low 5-B calcs have been recalced to 5-C then I don't have a problem scaling them from that but I would like more Input from other Calcers including Tata to make a final judgment
 
@The Prince of Counters; this thread is meant to be staff-only now.

But yes, it does use an outdated size scaling.
 
@Shadow; I'm fine with getting more input here but Tata has been busy and hasn't posted for the past three weeks.

Somebody has notified him of the thread, so hopefully he'll respond.
 
I'm not interested in the details of the feat so I avoid getting absorbed into a war, so my two cents are these:

If the feat happened off screen without a stated timeframe, the timeframe used in the calc is flawed and an unnecessary assumption. If these factors are currently happening in the calc, then it must be disregarded.
 
I can confirm that those factors are at play.

It looks like the consensus of staff who have posted so far is that the Hagoromo/Hamura calc is too flawed for use.

The next most important topic to settle is whether my version or Jvando's version of the Naruto/Sasuke calc, is best for use. I've given Jvando permission to come onto the thread to explain why his version should be used.

If anyone has any questions about the two calcs, I'll be happy to answer them.
 
@Mindovin; the second link you've posted has the same problems as the calc in the OP.

Also, I could do with a bit more context as to why you're posting the links and what part of them you want to discuss.
 
Since the calculation's timeframe is based on a feat taking place off-screen and has low level of detail, I agree if this calculation is scrape.

Regarding the 5-C calculations, the 5-C tier look fine, to me. I would liketo hear inputs from members like Jvando and Tata; I am open mind to changing for 5-C or 5-B discussion for the tier on this case.
 
Neutral for now, but I think I'd prefer to wait for TataHakai's input.
 
don't see how you can be neutral with no arguments against the OP. No timeframe and the feat didn't even occur onscreen

agree with the OP.
 
To clear things up, I also agree that "we don't have a timeframe so I'll assume timeframes x y and z" is really bad and shouldn't be used.
 
Sorry I haven't been able to reply regarding my calc, real life is a female dog if you know what I mean.

Regarding the Hagoromo calc, I agree that it is heavily flawed and should be removed since it happens off panel and no logical timeframe can be extrapolated from it.

Conversely, regarding the Naru/Sasu moon feat, I disagree with Damage's opinions about the timeframe for that feat. The reason being that this feat occured on panel within a single page meaning that we have some support for a lower timeframe.

The main support for Damage's calculation is that it uses no assumptions and is just a simple PE calculation, however, that doesn't inherently make the calculation correct. Even if the math is A+, if it conflicts with the context of the story, then the calculation can still be inapplicable. Similarly, for the calc Damage made, if we took the PE and converted it to KE, we would net like a 9 min timeframe based on a rough calc from my sensei.

For a bit of context surrounding the feat:

A little rough around the edges
Nice Moon, is it hollow too
Nardo jumps down

Naruto throws Zetsu (the black thing) to the still forming moon just before the creature is buried. The next scene we see is Naruto looking up then the completed moon. After that, Naruto returns to his friends ans says "Sealing complete" or something to that effect. Assuming that the Moon was fully formed around that time, utilizing Damage's calc would put the timeframe of completion at 9 min when nothing in the manga panels supports such a high timeframe. It is true that we do not have a stated timeframe, however,

If not and there is no other way to determine speed, you will need to assume a time frame. If it was a very quick feat, assume 1 second. If it was longer, 1 minute to upwards to 10 minutes can work. Go with whatever makes the most sense in the context of the feat
Based on the fact that the feat happened in only a few panels, context suggests that the timeframe was significantly short and as such, while the PE calc is mathematically correct, it is not correct within the context of the story in my opinion. I don't believe calcing with assumed timeframes while having some context is incorrect or wrong.

Here are some calcs that use assumed timeframes:

Notice how in all these calcs, the makers are using assumed timeframes based on the context of the feat? I'm not here to point out that these calcs are right and therefore mine are right nor am I trying to claim that they all should be removed if mine is removed. I just want to point out that there doesn't seem to be a glaring issue with using assumed timeframes based on feats that have some context behind them.

Another point was about the time it took for Naruto to return to his team after having thrown away black zetsu.

In chapter 693 of the Manga from pages 10-12, we see Naruto and Sasuke running from Frost Country to the Valley of the end in only a few panels. During this time, Hagoromo is talking to Kakashi which is happening at the same time Naruto and Sasuke were traveling. I counted the words spoken to be ~195, but I'll round up to 200 just for the sake of it. An average person speaks around 125-150 words per minute and you can find similar figures elsewhere. Just based on a rough calc I made, and using a 125 low-end, it took Naruto and Sasuke around 1.6 minutes to travel that distance. To get a rough estimate of how far that distance is:

Naruto World Map Jvando Method jh

Frost Country to Valley of the End (81.53px) = 1,592.2 km
Even assuming that Naruto was on the complete other side of the Moon crater, you still wouldn't get a timeframe of 9 min like Damage's calc technically suggests.

I think I've said what I wanted to say.

mrk el que lo lea whatever that means
 
@Damage

I'm not a calcer. Math wise I don't know anything about them, I posting them because they are exist.


From what I remember and I don't say its use correct or not, Hagoromo and/or Hamura sends the Moon use hurled as the basis of the timeframe.

Don't @me though.
 
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