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Overwatch Downgrades: Part II

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MrKingOfNegativity

MrKingOfNegativity

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Continued from here.

As was more or less concluded in the last thread, Overwatch's current ratings are extremely inflated, and the scaling of the verse in general needs to be done over. We have most of what we need in order to do this, but there are still some issues that need to be resolved before the revision is performed.

I'll be listing everything below.

What Has Been Agreed Upo

  • Gameplay feats are to be removed from all pages, as gameplay is non-canon as well as completely contradictory to the verse's lore.
  • Doomfist's AP and durability are to be downgraded to Small Building level+ based on this recalc of one of his notable feats. Winsto in Primal Rage scales to this, as he was shown clashing with Doomfist's gauntlet while in said state. Reaper's guns also scale to this, due to harming Winston while the latter was in Primal Rage and forcing him out of said state.
  • Soldier: 76's AP and durability are to be downgraded to Small Building level based on this calc. The amount of characters who scale to this still needs to be evaluated.
  • Roadhog and Junkrat are to be downgraded to very low-end Small Building level based on this recalc of one of their shared feats. The amount of characters who scale to this still needs to be evaluated.
What We Still Need to Discuss

  • All of the character scaling that needs to be gone over which was mentioned above.
  • Solid speed feats to scale all of the characters to, as (apparently) their Hypersonic combat speed ratings come from gameplay.
  • Ratings for L├║cio and Symmetra, as the former is currently under dispute, and the latter has no calcs to support a rating for her at the moment.
  • Abilities originating from gameplay which should be removed from the profiles. (Mentioned by Drite77)
Let's get this over with.
 
Reposting

After some talk in Discord, i will ask, since the lead writter says that we shouldn't consider in game things as cannon, would this affect some people abilities? I have yet to check, but IIRC, the guy that i talked saided that someone got NPI via something that you can do in gams
 
It would affect a handful, although the more notable characters have used at least some of their game abilities in the comics. (Like Zarya using the alt-fire of her gun in Searching)

Any abilities from gameplay that are shown in cinematics, comics and other lore should be fine to keep. Anything that isn't should be removed.
 
This would affect alot in what Genji can or can not reflect. Maybe that ability is just game mechanics seeing as he couldn't deflect an arrow from Hanzo in their cinematic
 
MrKingOfNegativity said:
Any abilities from gameplay that are shown in cinematics, comics and other lore should be fine to keep. Anything that isn't should be removed.
Click to expand...
No. Just no. Im going to be brutally honest that is completely and utterly wrong.
 
Genji has NPI via deflecting sound waves and plasma, things that he did not do in cannon AFAIK, that should be discussed
 
Because theyre powers that each character canonically has? I genuinely fail to see what the issue is, there is no reason whatsoever to remove 95% of the abilities in the verse just because they werent used in the comics
 
WeeklyBattles said:
I will apply th AP changes when i get home from work but everything else is fine as is.
Click to expand...
Apparently not, considering the other glaring issues I pointed out in the OP that we never resolved in the first thread.

Two of which were brought up by other users beforehand, in the same thread.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Because theyre powers that each character canonically has? I genuinely fail to see what the issue is, there is no reason whatsoever to remove 95% of the abilities in the verse just because they werent used in the comics
Click to expand...
Canon doesn't include the gameplay, so you'd need to source the abilities from the actual story.

The reason we're removing the abilities is because they aren't canon. Pretty simple, to be honest.
 
Im usually ok with abilities in gameplay being on profiles but most games don't have a cannon so far removed from their actual gameplay. The problem isn't the abilities themselves its the fact they all come from a noncannon feature of the game... If overwatchs gameplay were actually connected to the story Id be fine with it but since it doesnt....
 
The issue is that those games tell their story in the game itself, whereas Overwatch has decided to explicitly seperate their game and their story, which is honestly a smart move for a multiplayer game where taking gameplay at face-value would make the story stop making sense altogether.
 
Agreed its a clever solution to keep gameplay from interefering with the story they want to tell. Overall I think with overwatchs clear stance/showings of Gameplay not being cannon, the abilities should probably be removed.
 
@Pen They are connected to the story, hell the in game maps regularly change according to what happens in the lore
 
I know that we don't factor in game mechanics into the usual scaling, but did I just hear the phrase 'gameplay shouldn't factor into their scaling?'

Gameplay is literally everything within a game. So, if gameplay isn't factored in, then the characters can only get their stats, skills and literally everything else from the lore videos.


This is pretty dumb.
 
The lead writter confirmed that stuff that happens in the games are not cannon to the overall story of Overwatch
 
@Drite Death of the Author, what he said directly contradicts what is shown in the game itself, thus his statement is not to be taken as fact
 
But like, isn't the game supposed to be non cannon? What does it matters what is shown there that can contradict him when it is confirmed that it is non cannon?
 
If thats the case why aren't we scaling them alongside one another anymore then? I thought last thread was all about throwing out there scaling based on the game-play being ruled non cannon.

If that's not the case my apologies this has been going on for some time now.
 
The pen or the sword said:
If thats the case why aren't we scaling them alongside one another anymore then? I thought last thread was all about throwing out there scaling based on the game-play being ruled non cannon.
Click to expand...
Go here, then scroll through what was said.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Because theyre powers that each character canonically has? I genuinely fail to see what the issue is, there is no reason whatsoever to remove 95% of the abilities in the verse just because they werent used in the comics
Click to expand...
I agree with this, and also whay Ayewale is saying. I don't see a reason why the game should be thrown out completely. Games are important to a video game, we just gotta discard obvious game mechanics. But these seem like abilities/feats that are present within the games as opposed to that.
 
Yeah lol I was actually involved with that like I said though its been a while. So the general consensus there seemed to be due to lead writer statements and the team compositions making zero sense the game-play is non cannon (Or at the very least inconsistent)

That does leave me confused on why weekly's trying to argue for the game-play being cannon again... In the end I don't have a strong stance on this area of discussion, as long as we aren't scaling the whole cast to one another based on gameplay Im satisfied... Though it does seem sorta double standard like...
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Drite Death of the Author, what he said directly contradicts what is shown in the game itself, thus his statement is not to be taken as fact
Click to expand...
The game devs aren't authors nor have they done anything that directly contradicted that statement. Nor do they have any degree of authority over the story greater than the lead writer.

We've already agreed on this point, backtracking at this point is just stalling the revisions.

We've even already asked you to provide this """contradiction""" on the previous thread to no avail. You should be aware of this, I've no clue why this is being brought up again.

Ryukama said:
I agree with this, and also whay Ayewale is saying. I don't see a reason why the game should be thrown out completely. Games are important to a video game, we just gotta discard obvious game mechanics. But these seem like abilities/feats that are present within the games as opposed to that.
Click to expand...
You don't think the writers outright telling us to not include the game-play in the lore isn't reason to ignore it?

You're speaking as if the game tells its story through its gameplay, a-la Dark Souls. Overwatch doesn't do that; it doesn't need gameplay to tell its story and has made provisions to tell a story separately from the game itself.

Games are important to a video game when the story is told through the game, I reiterate. Overwatch isn't such a game, and it makes this so obviously clear I'm confused why this is still a discussion.

As I said before, we already decided on this in the previous thread. I'm honestly concerned the revisions are being stalled purposely at this point.
 
@Dargoo The revisions have been ready to go for almost a month now, you are the one stalling it by pointlessly arguing that canon abilities should be removed for no legitimate reason ours before they were set to be applied
 
WeeklyBattles said:
@Dargoo The revisions have been ready to go for almost a month now, you are the one stalling it by pointlessly arguing that canon abilities should be removed for no legitimate reaso
Click to expand...
Are you going to explain your arguments for why we shouldn't take the word of the lead writer?

I don't have time for a finger-pointing contest, explain when and where the Lead Writer's words were contradicted, and how those who contradicted it have greater clout regarding the story than him. You neglected to explain this before.

You've already made the arguments you're making right now. We've already debunked them. Seriously:

Circular
Argument
That was one month ago.

This is just a waste of time. Those reading this thread, click the link King posted above, please.
 
Don't her bullets physically hit objects and people? (I know they aren't conventional bullets but they seem to have physical force/presence, and get stopped by hitting physical objects) Why would hitting them out of the air/deflecting them count as NPI
 
Drite77 said:
BTW, deflecting Tracer bullets really counts as NPI?
Click to expand...
No, as they impact against solid material. If Genji actually deflected them in canon, however, he'd likely be capable of reflecting other plasma/energy-based weaponry, like those seen in sci-fis like Halo.
 
I am iffy about some abilities in game, since alot can be considered game mechanics, like Genji's deflect, IIRC, he couldn't deflect Hanzo's arrow. Another thing that can be GM is Reinhart's stun move
 
The game has Sombra hacking someone's ability to run, so the game abilities sounding ridiculous in the context of the story isn't something entirely new.
 
Her bullets are energy projections, they're not physical in any way and they leave burn holes rather than bullet holes just like 76-s plasma rifle
 
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