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5th strongest 7-A Bracket Round 6 (Arcueid Brunestud vs Berserker (Arjuna Alter))

Damn, Fate is gonna knock itself out of the brackets.

Only question here is, does Arc out Authority Arjuna here as the Type?
 
Why do we even have a page for this Arc instead of just a key on her profile

She should out authority him as the type but Berseker Arc is ultra nerfed due to her master being bad

switch berserker Arc to first key Tsukihime Arc
 
If only we could just give her the abilities she is missing due to whatshisface.

You crossed it out but I completely agree.
 
This is a same verse match, so the discussion is between the knowledgeable users of the verse I guess...
 
Paul Frank said:
well that's 2 people who agree and 0 who disagree OP change to better Arc
Click to expand...
You know... I could in principle do that if it's agreed the other version is stronger. You mean the first key of this?
 
Yes, change to best girl. The Extra version is a nerfed version of a nerfed Arc. Earth has her Marble Phantasm (her main thing) and "I am always stronger than you" skill while Moon loses the first and gets a debuff instead of the other.
 
Berserker Arc is basically first key Arc but weaker because her ultimate one status is basically sealed away
 
Ok, changed the version.
 
Berserker Arc conceptually reduces his to 1/6th his power, and ultimate one to raise her stats 1 rank above his original even if it's only temporary.


That's her reason I'm voting arc.
 
That will effect his physical stats, not his Noble Phantasm. Arjuna Alter could be wall level, and his NP would still end the universe along with her
 
It affects his speed Though. Making her faster, and him slower. Just kill him before he uses it.

Also, amaterasu, and BB are affected by this skill and it states it brings them down to a level where they become beatable for her. So, it's highly likely it affects NP's as well
 
He literally just needs to flick his wrist to use his NP. That's still gonna be faster than her needing to cross the distance or fire projectiles. The effect of his NP is that it ends the universe, and even if you cut it by 6x, it's still a dimensional level above her paygrade
 
That sentence is quite vague and it doesn't mean she can beat them. When compared to other powerful Fate abilities, her ability is useless unless it's a long fight, which it rarely is.

Same with Karna's K&K. "Reduces 90% of damage" is not that useful if the ability kills you anyway.

If Arjuna has to basically do nothing to kill her, then her ability is useless.
 
How is it vague when it's a direct statement that has a meaning clear as day? The last sentence "they are brought down to a level where they can be beaten no matter how slim the Possibility is" it directly states Mooncell version of transformed BB and amaterasu
 
This match only comes down to who has more authority

If Arc has more she resists his stuff like she resists the mooncell stuff

If she has less she dies and he resists her stuff

Based on her position as a Type and her scaling to Amaterasu she would have more authority and be stronger than Altjuna
 
If that is your interpretation. The meaning is clear as day. Others can read it, and make up their thoughts if they want. The answer is simple. They get so far nerfed by her passive they become beatable by being made weaker than her. Despite having 2-A range/AP that gets nerfed too.

Edit: It has too get nerfed for them to become beatable
 
If we go by that interpretation that she can bring down 2-A beings, then her profile definitely needs to be changed to reflect that, and not just way it is by a factor of 6
 
Do we have any votes yet?

Here I thought this round would be over quickly due to being characters from the same verse...
 
Welp, since it only one verse, the number of users that argue are reduced to a half. Everyone else can't do anything but watch, as there could be an in-verse/canon explaination why someone would win.
 
I would say Arc but.... Altjuna as Servant still has the divine weapons from my PoV, as well Shiva's Authority (though that is nerfed too as Servant when your Authority is not intergrated into skills or NP like Ereshkigal or Meltryllis). Arc is powerful physically, true. But with all the things Altjuna still has a Servant... I'm afraid my vote would go to Nekojuna
 
Again all that matters here is who has more authority, not who has a better p&a

By lore and statements Arc has more authority and is stonger since that's needed to be the Type for the planet. The only one capable of bringing down Amaterasu was Arc and so she should be stronger than and have more authority than Altjuna.

This basically comes down to, "Do you take the lore and statements or dismiss them?"

If you take the statements and lore then Arc wins, if you dismiss them Arjuna wins
 
We are talking about Pre Tsukihime Arc

100% power or not her authority wouldn't be lower since even nerfed Extra Arc was stated able to take down Amaterasu
 
Yes, but you forgot even for that, it's still small chance for her to do it.

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Amaterasu#cite_note-3
This is because in the information world legend becomes reality, and natural phenomena that have been incarnated as "Gods" can often hold more power than their original natural existence does.
Well even with that being said, if Berserker regained her sanity she would easily be considered a cheat-tier Servant. Her power, "The stage is the Moon, so all targets have their power reduced to a sixth of their usual." would be extremely useful against other similar cheat-tier Servants.
It's a conceptual numerical alteration, so it is unavoidable when on the Moon. Even the Moon Cell transformed version of BB would be limited by it.
In EXTRA and CCC, she is about the only one who is "Capable of defeating Konjiki Hakumen (Golden White Face), no matter how small the chance might be."

If we are talking about Pre Tsukihime Arc, which would be 100% power Arc, then pitting her against Servant Altjuna is useless as it is a stomp towards Altjuna unless he is at full power too.

Authority, on the other hand, would be very nerfed if she is a Servant. Many divine Servants suffer this too, like Ishtar for example. Ereshkigal can only use her Authority when she deploys her Noble Phantasm which literally turning the area into her underworld, and Melt can use hers as far as how powerful is (how much level she has).

Taking also the fact that Arc will really suffer if she is trapped in a sealed, separated space from Earth and Moon, like a Reality Marble for example. Someone like Emiya can even pick out on Arc if he uses UBW, as Arc is cut off from the Moon and Earth. Even Void Shiki too will suffer the same problem. In fact, she maybe as well powerless in such state.

Lastly, remember not every Divine Spirits come from the Earth. Amaterasu comes from the universe itself,as well as other sun gods like Surya or Apollo. Though this is just my speculations, i would say gods at the level of Shiva, Saver, Mara are the same too. And Arc's authority iirc is just her would get stronger at most one level of her opponent and Marble Phantasm. Even with those, she would suffer against someone like Gilgamesh that has many weapons

https://typemoon.fandom.com/wiki/Arcueid_Brunestud#cite_note-18
In the definition of Arcueid's strength, there's this thing where "her output changes according to her opponent". As an absolute order taken from her backup, the planet, she is allowed only an output a little stronger than her opponent. And. Single entity abilities of Arc and Servants are roughly on the same level

Servants use their respective Noble Phantasms while Arc uses her unlimited backup to fight, and differences occur depending on affinity. A simple-is-best Arc is an all rounder, and so generally her chances of winning are only high, but there are those opponents that she just has helplessly awful compatibility with.

For example, in cases where even if the guy's stats are about the same as Arc, he has a ridiculously large number of weapons with high versatility. As the amount Arc is allowed to take out is based on "single entity ability", against types like Gil-sama, well, you see?

And the "5 Servants + a" line is a comparison of simple "firepower". Like with the "corpses", foot soldier level opponents aren't going to be avoiding their attacks, so the ones who'd have the advantage are the ones who have more weapons. The reason why Servants excellent at one-on-one combat didn't stand out in Broad Bridge was because of this. Also, for normal Arc, she would get approximately the equivalent of 2 Servants single entity stats.

I'm just saying my statements here. I just say what i know about the two and the infos i already know
 
>Taking also the fact that Arc will really suffer if she is trapped in a sealed, separated space from Earth and Moon, like a Reality Marble for example. Someone like Emiya can even pick out on Arc if he uses UBW, as Arc is cut off from the Moon and Earth. Even Void Shiki too will suffer the same problem. In fact, she maybe as well powerless in such state.

Arc can actually forcibly reconnect to either the moon or Earth from within a reality marble or bounded field iirc and Void Shiki wouldn't lose connection to the root from just a simple bounded field or reality marble

>remember not every Divine Spirits come from the Earth. Amaterasu comes from the universe itself

Yes Amaterasu is one of the most powerful since she is the deification of the Sun, in other words the Sun as a god rather than just a god of the Sun

>as well as other sun gods like Surya or Apollo

Unlike Amaterasu these two fall into the category of, gods of something, they don't actually represent the Sun but were instead attributed the role of God of the Sun by worshipers and gained their power from that

>Though this is just my speculations, i would say gods at the level of Shiva, Saver, Mara are the same too.

Gods like Shiva are also in the category of, 'spirits that became gods through worship' iirc. Gods in that category are weaker than ones like Amaterasu and Mesopotamian gods that already existed before being worshiped like Ea.

>And Arc's authority iirc is just her would get stronger at most one level of her opponent and Marble Phantasm.

Yes her authority afaik is the conceptual boost and nerf. However higher authority resists what those of lower authority do, as seen when Arc nopes the mooncell, K&K nopes the mooncell, Amaterasu nopes the time axis etc.

>Even with those, she would suffer against someone like Gilgamesh that has many weapons

That statment was referring to the weakness of her amps. She becomes stronger than her opponent yes, but someone like Gil who has a variety of weapons she doesn't resist yet and doesn't actually fight physically would be a poor match for her.
 
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