XitSign
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Alright Dragon Tamers, it's time to get PAD some profiles on the site!
I've been working with both friends and some other users on the site like Bobsican to gather information and organize everything for a Puzzle and Dragons Verse Page and a collection of profiles. As a fan of these games and the wide variety of monsters, dragons, and characters they have, I can't wait to get working on all of this, and this thread will be used to compile all the information we've gathered, get feedback, and use to have a centerpoint to start working on the creation with some support.
Verse Context:
Puzzle and Dragons is a match-3 Gacha style monster collecting game for IOS. You, the player, explore dungeons with your team of monsters and attack by connecting orbs of energy together to trigger power boosts for your team. These monsters have Elemental Manipulations based on their coloring:
Red - Fire
Green - Plant, Earth, Wind
Blue - Water, Ice
Yellow - Light, Holy, Electricity
Purple - Darkness, Death, (sometimes) Poison
(Yes, I know, Red really got the short end of the stick here with only one manip, but them's the breaks)
This system has a rock-paper-scissors aspect to it, where monsters of a certain color will have a Weakness to the manips of a color that has an advantage (Red > Green > Blue > Red || Yellow > Purple > Yellow)
Monsters can either be stand-alone or have stages of evolution where they can become bigger and stronger monsters. For the latter, we should probably handle them like Pokemon and Digimon, with a single profile and multiple Keys for stages of growth.
Monsters come in a variety of shapes, sizes, abilities, and power. On top of having stages, monsters also have a Star rating that (vaguely) determines how strong they are. Using similar stages and Star rankings, we can powerscale monster species without feats to species that do and flesh out the universe's power. Making this easier is that many monster species have direct counterparts that they should also be 1-to-1 equal to. For example, the 'Slime' series of monsters has a single slime evolution line for each color, and each of these slimes are the same size, same power, same star-ranking, and have similar abilities. This, along with the collections of feats we have found, will help establish consistency.
The final main note about how this universe works is talking about the human characters. While the IOS version of the game doesn't directly acknowledge player characters, the 3DS versions take the time to have an active story around a cast of characters that use monsters, and they should be handled how we handle other 'Monster Tamer' style characters, likely with early-game to end-game teams being recorded for their profiles.
And now that I've assaulted you with information...how about more? I'd like to list all the notable feats and information we could find in Puzzle and Dragon Z for 3DS
Note: The IOS game does have feats and information to work with, but unfortunately most, if not all, has yet to be translated out of Japanese, so currently the 3DS game (Z) is our best source of reliable information currently. I'm working on compiling more information through translations but Google Translate is not my friend, will update with more when complete.
Stage 1, 1 Star Monsters (Fodder):
Wouldn't be a monster collecting game without fodder. PAD's fodder are 1-Star monsters at Stage-1, these are the weakest you can get. However, the Zed City Rangers were established in universe to keep peace and avoid these monster from causing harm, so despite them being fodder they are of some concern to normal people:
Woodsie: Known to knock people unconscious with a strike when disturbed.
Zabgo: Can swim at 30 mph, or 13.4112 m/s
These are the only feats of interest we have for this level of low tier fodder monster. The speed feat is SuperHuman, and is likely applicable for Combat Speed as Zabgon are frequently fought from bodies of water as well as coming onto land.
The AP is a bit iffier, as it is only one statement, but knocking an average person out with a single strike and being a threat to normal people should be between 10-A to 9-C
The other 'Slimes' and lower tier 'Starter Dragons' should scale to this, as they are elemental counterparts to Woodsie and Zabgon. This should be the baseline for the verse.
Stage 2, 2 Star Monsters:
Stepping it up, but just a little, the next tier of monsters gets a bit more powerful, and we have a better group of feats to work with.
Melagios: Vaporizes small bodies of water as a hunting tactic for fish. From what I can find vaporizing that much water is assumed 9-B
Melabur: Similar to Melagios, but instead 'boils away' water surrounding it when submerged.
Moriganno: Causes tremors when panicked. We have no idea the severity, but likely very low tremors as the entry doesn't make any special note of their power, 9-B is lowest possible assumption to my knowledge
Warzard: Punches faster than the speed of sound. Applicable combat speed feat, and from what I was told in the discord, that kind of speed (assuming a human-sized fist) could translate to a 9-B punch:
"KE's 1/2mv^2
so apparently a fist is 0.7kg
1/2(0.7)(343.2)^2
41225.184 (Joules)" Courtesy of Wokistan
With these four in mind, this rank of monsters seems comfortably 9-B, with Supersonic Combat speeds
Stage 3, 3 Star Monsters:
Next up are our third stages and other comparable monsters, not a huge jump again but a sizable one non-the-less.
Mistrai: Can rain down cloud to ground lightning, and enough to burn down entire forests. Should be comparable to real lightning. 8-C
Shade: Moves fast enough to vanish during attack animation, and its description claims it can strike before the opponent can blink. Is an evolution path for Warzard and should be superior regardless.
GrimRock: Can strike the ground hard enough to cause fissures up to a mile away. We were unable to calc this yet, or have someone calc it, but it seemed impressive, and at least on part with Mistrain's feat if not better.
Not as many solid feats this time, mostly because we've been unable to fully quantify GrimRock yet, but we're currently settling with an 8-C with at least Supersonic speeds for this group of monsters.
Stage 4, 4 Star Monsters:
This group of monsters gets suddenly big in comparison to our last batch, almost every feat is generously above where our last collection stopped off so get ready:
Levia: Can created violent storms when threatened. I know that calcs for storm got nerf batted hard, and we have next to no information, so this probably means little. But putting out there as something notable.
Mjolnir: Can 'shake the very continent itself' Draconia (the main setting of Z) is comprised of seven countries and is of a similar size to the other continents on an earth-like planet. The landmass should be impressive, but likely requires some assumptions and calcs before we can be sure of how powerful this is yet. Likely Tier 6
ForestBah: Similar speed to Shade, fights fast enough that its opponents can't register what is happening. Should be generously superior to Warzard at this point.
Dragon Asura: Has an attack where it shoots a pillar of fire up from 'The depths of the earth'. I was told this is likely Tier 6 with the required energy to crack the surface of the planet to draw out this energy, but vague description means we didn't know how to calc for sure.
Ancient Dragon Knight: Reduces Mountains to dust with its attacks. At least 7-A
Verche: Is as fast as lightning. Using the average we use for Lightning Speed that's Massively Hypersonic+
Exia and Crowley: These two are grouped together because they're both elemental counterparts with almost the exact same feat, with one covering the planet in light and the other in darkness with their powers. This has been calced here by user Mephistus, with the results varying from Low 6-B to 6-B
While these feats are becoming a little harder to get values for as they get bigger, it seems consistent that this group of monsters should fit safely in Tier 6, likely 6-B with Massively Hypersonic+ speeds.
5 Star, Legendary Monsters:
And everyone's favorite part when it comes to Monster Collecting games, the Legendary monsters! Gods, deities, and just REALLY powerful creatures that rival the 'God Tiers' in-universe. Time to cover those legendries and the monsters on their level.
Arkvelza: (Spoilers) Arkvelza is used as an unwilling power source in the events of the game, with some of his power being forcefully stolen to cause chunks of the planets surface to be torn up and lifted up into the sky. Arkvelza's power is the main trigger of the plot, and it's likely only a part of his power as he was resistive of this process. One of the pieces of the planet's surface that was moved can be seen here. In total, there was (at least) 64 of these chunks ripped from the planet when Arkvelza's power was used, but possibly more as four extra pieces return to the surface off-screen. If possible to calc, it should be ASAP as it's the most important event in the plot, and might be useful for determining the Legendary tiers.
Vritra: 'Annihilated an entire world simply to satisfy its thirst for destruction' First of all: Metal. Secondly: We have no timeframe or context for this, so could be anywhere from 6-A to 5-B so some input on some acceptable assumptions would be good.
Awoken Hera: Can turn 'lush lands' to deserts, wither trees, while also covering the skies in her darkness. Similar to Crowly and Exia, but on a larger scale with some affect on the planet itself too. Possibly casually as well, as the dex entry makes it sound like this is just her getting angry or upset that causes this. At least 6-B due to being superior to Crowly in rank and feat strength.
Amaterasu Ohkami: Envelopes the whole world in shadows if she should ever frown. Again, similar to Exia and Crowly, but seems a lot more casual as all she needs to do is change mood.
The Arkvelza Calc is very important for clearing up this group of monsters, as he's considered one of the strongest of the legendary monsters and many others scale directly to him via feats and statements, but with what we have the Legendary monsters seem to have proof that they should be at least 6-B via casually comparing to and outranking Exia and Crowly, and possibly even higher via feats and statements. No speed feats, so we can only assume they are on par, if possibly superior, to Verche's Massively Hypersonic+
And Finally ― Odds and Ends!:
These monsters are weird, they have special situations, their feats are somewhat inconsistent, and I'd like feedback about where would be most appropriate to put them/getting calcs for their own feats in their unique descriptions.
Echidna (and the Healer Girls): The Healer Girls are an interesting archetype of monsters in-universe. They're considered highly desirable, powerful, and have useful abilities. However their evolution chain doesn't match up with the chains we use for the main tiers above and comparable monsters, there's only two stages to the Healer Girls. They start as Stage 1s with 2 Stars and jump to Stage 2 with 4 Stars, and I mean JUMP, they get ludicrously stronger after that leap. So it makes them harder to place than other evolution lines that line up with what we talked about above.
Echidna also has a feat of her own in her description, swinging her swords fast enough that they catch fire. No magic involved with that attack. I don't know how fast that would need to be, and how hard that might hit, but possibly useful if they can't/logically shouldn't be scaled to anything else.
Death Scissors: This one-off monster has no evolution chain; it starts at 4 stars as a hidden bonus monster. And its description only talks about shattering metal. A high rank, secret boss, and decent stats…but a very underwhelming lore description.
Gold/Metal/Jewel Dragons: Ever hear of the Metal Slime? Gung-Ho did. These dragons are exactly what you think they are, metal slimes for the PAD universe. They don't hit hard, they run away all the time, and only defining trait is bulk. They have a 3 Star Rank but definitely haven't earned it via strength, wanted thoughts about what could be done with the living EXP points.\
Conclusion:
I want PAD profiles. I want em baaaaaaaad.
More productively, a quick TLDR:
Stage 1, Star 1 Monsters - 10-A/9-C with SuperHuman Speed
Stage 2, Star 2 Monsters - 9-B with Supersonic Speed
Stage 3, Star 3 Monsters - 8-C with at least Supersonic Speed
Stage 4, Star 4 Monsters - 6-B (Possibly, waiting on calc acceptance and input) with Massively Hypersonic+ Speed
Legendary Monsters ― At least 6-B, but likely higher, with at least Massively Hypersonic+ Speed
I'd really like to hear community input and feedback before going any further with this, some opinions on what to do with the stranger one-off monsters that don't quite fit the mold we've been able to make, and I'd like to try getting some calcs going for the feats that are currently unknown ASAP (especially Arkvelza). We've been working hard on this, and if PAD is getting on the Wikia I want them done right and done justice.
(Wow this thread turned out long and rambling...gonna be embarassing if I've made some sort of huge mistake in here...)
