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Medaka Box Tiering CRT

Firephoenixearl

Firephoenixearl

20,509
1,590
After the All Fiction CRT which was basically just a clarification on the ability, to accept the fact that it is capable of affecting time and things throughout the timeline, in other words, being 4D, however I said that it was just for clarification purposes as it would not guarantee a tier. However after looking at the whole series once again there are several things that could point to a tier.

Baby Planet
Ajimu's skill to create a universe. Even though it's an ajimu's skill it's still suporting evidence, and credits to Causality who looked over the data book for said skill and it does indeed create a universe.

Other universes in Medaka Box
There existence of other universes in Medaka Box (which chronologically is after Ajimu using her skill).

All Fiction's statements
All Fiction having several statements that imply it being capable of erasing the the world (universe going by it's other statements and feats).

All Fiction's feats
All Fiction is already proved to be 4 dimensional in erasure due to making things "never happened",which with Causality's help we also found out that the databooks also state the same thing (never happened), and being capable of grand scale feats like erasing the colors from the entire universe (world).

The Dream World
The existence of the dream world, a world inside people's hearts that Ajimu created which is so vast it has it's own constellation and being "likely" universal in size, and having it's own timeline and timeflow given how past versions of Zenkichi were in the dream world when Ajimu trained them.

This all on top of (as I already stated and proved before) certain skills being 4D in nature and universal in range (like all fiction capable of 4D erasure with universal range), it all supports the Low 2-C rating this is while taking into account the databooks too and not just the manga.

Conclusion
All in all, I believe that it is not be too stretched to say that several skills are likely Low 2-C. That is why, if other people do agree with the proposed points, I would say that a "Possibly Low 2-C" tier is reasonable for Medaka Kurokami and Misogi Kumagawa.
 
Then that's 4 agreements (me included) and 3 voting Ajimu to get the tier (i am neutral, i will go with whatever the majority decides).
 
I think the only thing restricting this would be the gag of the series and arguments made with it. All in all I agree with some skills having Low 2-C feats or capabilities especially Ajimu and All Fiction.
 
You know, I dont really like MB and the wank make it worse but I always thought of Ajimu as a Low 2-C character, but the wank and the parodies made it hard to properly rank her.

Anyways, you forgot the moment when she tanks/observes the big bang, that could serve as a supporting feat.

I agree with her being Low 2-C, being 4-D however is another thing but if the so long waites revision happens it wouldn't even matter anymore.
 
World=/=Universe Like, honestly, read any 3-A Zelda upgrade thread that failed. That was exactly the counter argument.

There's literally 0 context supporting that world was referring to Universe and not just the planet. After all, his goal is to defeat and destroy the strong people, which would anyway make the society and the "world" itself crumble. No need to go for the universal high-end.

Deleting colors in an universe is just range and something Manipulation.
 
There are aliens all throughout the universe though Medaka's adventures post moon bust state this
 
Triforce. World is the exact word Kumagawa uses when he erases colors from the universe.

And there is still the dream world and the universe creating skill which is backed up by the databook.
 
Different context. Even Azzy agreed that sometimes Hyrule (world) could mean Universe, but that doesn't mean it always means universe.

Yeah? That stuff seems fine at first glance, I'm against Low 2-C AF.
 
65F326E2-899F-4761-B615-6CAE12F1886B
Yeah. Definitely erased "blue" in the entire universe.

I'm not sure why we even consider this canon. Even ignoring that it's not in the manga (apparently that has been resolved), because Kuma cannot restore back what he erases with AF, colors wouldn't have existed for literally the entirety of Medaka Box. Which is clearly not the case here.
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Yeah? That stuff seems fine at first glance, I'm against Low 2-C AF.
Click to expand...
We're not picking favorites. There are several abilities that aim for the "low 2-C skills" and All Fiction itself is 1 of the strongest skills due to it (although working in conjuction with Bookmaker) worked on Ajimu and it is an upgrade to Ajimu's skill.

Also the same guy uses the same word, with the same meaning. You can't just go like "nop that's not the case" counting in range, feats beforehand, context, person, and everything else everything points towards world being universe. And there is a reason the tier will be "possibly Low 2-C". There is literally "no" case in medaka box to my knowledge where world has meant planet. Even when the moon was coming down Medaka specifically said if the "earth" ended up being destroyed, not world. Same for Ajimu she stated the "earth" formed.
 
Look tri, we're not here to argue already accepted points. Nisio Isin himself was part of the script for that show and in that very episode it says "this is part of the kumagawa gaiden" which is a canon series.

How the colors came back seems rather unimportant to me. It is Ajimu we're talking about, the colors never existed yet All Fiction can reverse it's own effects later on, there is nothing to say Ajimu, the literal god of the verse is incapable of such a thing.

Do not debate over the 12th episode, it has already over and done with. Don't want to go in circles here.
 
Holds on, The number of agreements don't mean that "Hey! Upgrade time!" if not DBH would be 2-A +people who are agree doesn't necessarily saw Triforec's disagreement. I don't say that number is irrelevant but in CRT, it's not an absolute constant.

Ask some staff since this is pretty controversial.
 
What? When did i imply that? I was just counting the agreements, since they will be important when the thread eventually concludes. When did i say "ok we have ppl, close this"?

I will wait for Iapitus too, then will call in DontTalkDT and Ant.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Also the same guy uses the same word, with the same meaning. You can't just go like "nop that's not the case" counting in range, feats beforehand, context, person, and everything else everything points towards world being universe.

Using that same logic, I can say that it's always 5-B because the episode itself shows only the Earth affected by Kuma erasing colors

And there is a reason the tier will be "possibly Low 2-C". There is literally "no" case in medaka box to my knowledge where world has meant planet. Even when the moon was coming down Medaka specifically said if the "earth" ended up being destroyed, not world. Same for Ajimu she stated the "earth" formed.

And? English also has both the word "Earth" and "World". Does that now mean they have two different meanings? Just because the word "Earth" is used, it doesn't mean that "World" now must mean something else. Do I really need to pull out the Zelda example?
Click to expand...
 
No, the show clearly shows everything in the universe losing blue, which is why there are no blue colors in space like blue stars, and when he keeps erasing colors you can clearly see even everything in the sky changing color.

Yes, but you are arguing "they mean earth" im saying. Whenever they refer to the planet they use "earth", whereas "world" has always been used for the universe. Your argument was "they just mean the planet that time", when that has never been the case. With All Fiction being >>> normal skills and Ajimu's skills having shown Low 2-C capabilities, everything just points towards "universe". There is much more reason to believe they are refering to the universe knowing about the range, capabilities, all previous uses of the word "world", potency, than there is to say "Kumagawa erased colors from the world/universe but he means "earth" in this case cus why would he mean universe when he has meant that before". The statistic having a slight possibility of being not correct is obviously possible which is why they won't have flat Low 2-C tiers, but possible. Because there is much more reason to believe the universe from literally everything than there is earth. There is nothing to say they mean earth.
 
Uh, no? It's clearly shown that AF's influence only reaches the atmosphere. The reason they cannot see stars maybe is because it's still day? Just saying.

AF being > Ajimu's skill means saying that Kuma>Ajimu. I don't think I need to say how wrong that is. And about the Earth stuff, again, if I used it I could just say: Kuma said world and affected the planet, so even later he only means planet; which is wrong reasoning as it completely ignores different context.

"The statistic having a slight possibility of being not correct is obviously possible which is why they won't have flat Low 2-C tiers, but possible."

No. If we have two possibilities for a feat, a low end and a high end, we only choose the low end and ignore the latter, unless there's some really good proof to prefer the latter. Which is lacking here as it's literally just "it says world, so there's also the possibility of it referring to the universe".
 
No we don't actually. That is the case if both sides have equal validity. If there is serious even if not definitive proof it is ok to assume the high end as long as it is reasonable.

No it clearly shows all of the universe, as blue disappeared from the universe in that infamous shot.

I mean do i need to explain how wrong you are with that assumption too? Bookmaker is canonically > ajimu's entire arsenal. Same for all fiction they worked on ajimu and did her in. Ajimu being overall > kuma doesn't make the facts unreal, the facts that she was canonically sealed by a combo of bm and af.
 
I'm just gonna pop in here to say my weirdness with all these feats that make me not accept this. I've already argued about this with Earl in DMs and I really really really don't want to do that again.

Baby Planet

Contextless Ajimu skill. Scales to no-one.

Other Universes

That statement has some obvious weirdness in it. "War-gold" the supposed demon king from another universe is the same being mentioned by the delusional magical girl Not-Equal.

And also, this is just another place merely existing, this is nowhere close to scaling to Medaka/Misogi or making it not an outlier for them.

All Fiction's Statements

In the first scan, Chougasaki says "Are you trying to destroy the world? Well, you are, but..." We know from the rest of the story that Misogi's plan is simply to kill all the Abnormals, with the idea that doing so would make a paradise for everyone else. We know that his plan isn't to literally destroy the universe, so it's very unlikely that universal destruction's what Chougasaki's referring to.

In the second scan, Kumagawa saying that is part of a conversation where he's lying to **** with Zenkichi and Naze. Two panels later he says that he can make things he made nothing with AF return, which is later revealed to be a lie. This statement isn't reliable at all.

All Fiction's feats

I've already stated my issues with AF being 4D and erasing colour on a universal scale in another thread. But even with those accepted, this isn't AP.

The Dream World

I'd like to point out that it isn't always an actual physical place, sometimes it's just merely the result of the person being unconscious while Ajimu's in their heart, and they're not actually physically/mentally/spiritually moved anywhere.

Anyway, this doesn't scale to Medaka/Kumagawa. Other characters in a verse having a high tier doesn't make that high tier not an outlier for characters depicted as far weaker physically.

I've already mentioned on other threads my issues with certain skills being 4D in nature, but I'd like to point out that All Fiction's the only ability with "universal range" merely from the other statements provided on this thread, this isn't actually new support for the rating.

The databooks haven't added anything at all as support. The name for Baby Planet was the same in the databook.

Conclusion

Why do you say "several skills" when All Fiction's the only one that has even the possibility of being Low 2-C? I disagree that the two statements you've shown are enough for AF to get Possibly Low 2-C.

Yes, two statements, because no other statement was about Kumagawa/Medaka's AP.
 
Baby Planet: It has been backed by the databook, which makes it far more believeable.

Other Universes: That is either just for comedy effects or coincidence.

AF Statements: Depends, you're saying "misogi could be lying" when he didn't actually. It was a pretty honnest statement to me. He said "Yes that is true, i cannot use it freely cus i can erase the world, but i can still use it with pinpoint accuracy". If he wanted to mess with them he wouldn't have pretty much thrown the idea of "the world getting erased" outta the window by saying he can control it really well. And on top of all this, the fact that this was backed up by other characters makes this more than just basic lie. Misogi being the type to mess with people doesn't make all his statements lies, considering a lot of things about the profiles are from statements Misogi has made.

AF Feats: Well it's not AP as i said, but with skills like all fiction already being capable of feats on that level, it's not like we're making a huge gap from already shown feats.

The Dream World: Tell that to Zenkichi physically training there.

Yeah it does scale. They are weaker physically, but Kumagaa beat Ajimu twice in a sense so...

Conclusion

Medaka would get a low 2-C regardless due to copying Ajimu's skill, but Kumagawa only has All Fiction yes. And it's not that i provided 100% conclusive and foolproof evidence, but what i did is point out that a lot of things do point towards Low 2-C All Fiction and Ajimu, as in the series is heavily implying those things are Universal+, that's why "possibly Low 2-C" is reasonable as we're not getting 8-B abilities to Universal+, we're getting abilities which heavily imply universal AP and abilities which can nuke concepts on a universal scale on a 4D level to universal+ in scale. The gap is rather reasonable considering everything that does point towards the Low 2-C tiering.
 
Medaka only copied the skills she could see from Ajimu, not all of them.

Also, there's one thing you failed to account for. Outlier. You know that going from 5-C to Low 2-C is a HUUUUUUUUGE jump, right?
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Medaka only copied the skills she could see from Ajimu, not all of them.
Also, there's one thing you failed to account for. Outlier. You know that going from 5-C to Low 2-C is a HUUUUUUUUGE jump, right?
Click to expand...
That was one of the skills actually.

Eh? We're jumping from 5-C to Low 2-C? Are you sure you're following me here? Medaka won't go to Low 2-C "physically", only with abilities. Her 5-C is physically. Her abilities right now are 4D, universal in range and that can nuke type 3 universal concepts from the timeline. With everything pointing to Low 2-C the jump would be aching to "From High 3-A to Low 2-C" (although it doesn't really have an AP right now), rather than from unknown to Low 2-C.
 
Neutral about the whole things but i've noticed that people talk about Baby Planet, so a small help, the description from the databook is:

þöƒÒü¥ÒéîÒüƒÒüªÒü«Õ«çÕ«Ö´╝êÒâÖÒéñÒâôÒâ╝ÒâùÒâ®ÒâìÒââÒâê): Newborn Universe (Baby Planet)

Õ«çÕ«ÖÒéÆõ¢£ÒéïÒé╣Òé¡Òâ½: Skill to make Universe

But i don't think that give a ranting to Ajimu is a good idea.
 
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