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A battle of the red and white heroes. (EMIYA vs Dante)

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KnightOfSunlight

KnightOfSunlight

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Alright, second favorite DMC character vs second favorite Nasuverse character. If this match goes incon I swear.

DMC5 Dante and Mythological Mystic Code of Iron No Name/EMIYA,. Speed equalized, both at Low 2-C, fight takes place in Red Grave City.

For context, DMC5 Dante has a sizable AP advantage and a speed boost, but EMIYA has higher variability and a fighting style made for more powerful foes.

The Devilish Demon Debonair Doubtlessly Drowning in Debt:

The Hunter of the Red Plains and Mythological Nameless Hero of Iro: 7 (Managements, ZephyrosOmega, Dienomite22, Schnee One, DragonEmperor23, CrimsonStarFallen, Veloxt1r0kore)

Dante gets a massive arsenal boost and EMIYA gets a lot of pizza:
 
For EMIYA:

Baseline <<<< BB <<<< Kiara/Kama < MMC Emiya

Dante:

Baseline < Argosax < DMC1 Sparda Dante < Void Mundus <<< DMC2/4 Dante =< BoG DMC5 Dante <<< Urizen <<< Post-Fruit Urizen << EoG DMC5 Dante

Key: 1 arrow means superior, 2 means majorly superior, 3 is vastly superior, 4 is massively superior. BB has some 8-D shenanigans so she's massively above baseline, Kiara casually ate BB, MMC Emiya beat Kiara.
 
>BB has some 8-D shenanigans so she's massively above baseline

You are using 8-D stuff to say they are way above baseline, do you see the problem there?
 
Good point, that's my bad.

It's better to say that considering most of her Low 2-C feats are vastly casual (like creating multiple infinite realms just to torture the main cast, which would be in total about five realms), she's still up there.

Anyway let's just say Dante has a sizable AP advantage and call it that. Calcing exact numbers is hard for Low 2-C and I'm an idiot for trying.
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
Good point, that's my bad.
It's better to say that considering most of her Low 2-C feats are vastly casual (like creating multiple infinite realms just to torture the main cast, which would be in total about five realms), she's still up there.
Click to expand...
That sounds a lot like 2-C if you ask me.
 
Yeah but it was determined not to be because of 2-C needing thousands of realms iirc. So she's just high into Low 2-C. Especially since it wasn't clear about how time and timelines functioned in those realms.
 
Depends on who he's fighting. He has Clairvoyance, but for him it works like analysis, and he has a skill called Mind's Eye (True) that lets him passively analyze and discern what the battlefield stage is. Neither of these work as pre-cog but they do let him simulate true pre-cog, at least in effect.

For people that are either holding back or at his level, he'll open with basic strikes and prod at their defenses, trying to guage how they react and then coming up with better plans from there. For people above him by a sizable amount, unless forced to fight in close quarters, he'll retreat and go for a ranged option. Optimally, he'd set up a chokepoint style trap and pick them down with ranged attacks, but that requires prep-time that he won't have in this.

Since Dante is above him, he'd fall back and attack from range. His effective range is several kilometers on his profile, though lore-nerds would argue that it's several hundred km.

If he feels the range would be closing, he'd prepare his Reality Marble for usage and wait for the opponent to enter, in which case he would gain a signifigant stat boost (how much is unsure, though he was able to turn a stomp fight into an incon) and access to a sword rain a la Gilgamesh (think Vergil's summoned swords but with many, many, many hundreds more swords).
 
Funny because the thing Dante resists isn't really precog. It's more similar to predicting the future/analyzing, which is exactly what No Name here does.

Though I could be wrong ofc. I'll probably have to search up the scans of Chen "predicting the future" and see whether it's actually precog or just very good analyzing like EoTM.
 
Xmark12 said:
Funny because the thing Dante resists isn't really precog. It's more similar to predicting the future/analyzing, which is exactly what No Name here does.
Though I could be wrong ofc. I'll probably have to search up the scans of Chen "predicting the future" and see whether it's actually precog or just very good analyzing like EoTM.
Click to expand...
Chen used true precog, the Beastheads gives it's user the ability to literally see the future, That's so Raven style.The Beastheads doesn't "predict" as in it's a guess,general assumption or analyzing about what will happen in the future, it just shows the literal future to it's user, which Chen used initially to dodge all of Dante's attacks until Dante got serious and annihilated Chen.

For example:

I try to kick you (you have the Beastheads) -> You easily dodge because the Beastheads showed you the future.

Basically Epitaph from JJBA but better
 
The problem is that it wouldn't work on Emiya's brand of psuedo-precog because it's not actually predicting the future. Merely, it's making a prediction based off of both past experience and analysis of the battle.

If Emiya had Eye of the Mind (False), it wouldn't work on Dante. But because he has Eye of the Mind (True) it will.
 
I was just confirming that what Dante resisted was true precognition regardless if it works here.

I dunno much about Fate characters so I don't know how much input I could really give.But based on your scenerio with Emiya raining down swords, Dante could just do this or the more likely case is his DSD summoned swords will just shoot all of the swords while simultaneously protecting Dante.
 
The problem with Emiya's sword rain is that it's not just normal swords. The have powerful effects that don't always need to hit in order to activate. That being said, DSD's summoned swords are easily Dante's best answer, since they can operate of defense for him. The problem would be quantity, with hundreds of swords raining down, or, if he needs to pull literally everything, just doing this.

Dante's main thing here is that his AP is high enough that he could kill Emiya in a short while if he's not careful. He can defend against a lot of Emiya's options successfully too, until he's in UBW. If he gets stuck in UBW it's entirely possible he would need SDT.

So effectively, it's AP vs Adaptability, like the initial post implies.
 
Well it isn't out of character for DMC5 Dante to immediately go into SDT near the beginning of the battle so if he were to do that then I that would lead to a blitz but in the case that he doesn't start with SDT he still has DT, Dreadnaught, Duplication, Fear aura, Instinctive Reaction, Invulnerability and he still has his Majin Form which will activate when near death.

I don't think Dante will let Emiya recite his incantation to use UBW so I don't think that's an issue.

What would Emiya likely use that would be a problem for Dante?
 
Copying and Projecting also gets rid of the AP advantage, since EMIYA also copies the strenght of the one who uses the weapon.
 
>tfw you forget about Emiya's main gimmick

Kill me now.

Anyway, @Dienomite,

I'm pretty sure SDT replaced Majin form, and Emiya would fall back to range since he'd know Dante is superior. Additionally, He resists mind manip, has durability negating NPs, and a few regen countering NPs. Instinctive reaction is something literally everyone in Fate worth their salt has, and it's something Emiya can deal with.

And Emiya can recite UBW in combat. He doesn't need to stop to begin the incantation, and can keep fighting while casting it.

Duplication and DT are the biggest issues since they excacerbate Dante's AP avantage and DT gives Dante a speed advantage. Emiya can amp his own statistics as well, but not to the degree DT can. The duplication is the most major issue here, but with sword spam, he could probably cancel it.

It's a lot more equal than the AP scale makes it look really. I can see the battle going either way, even if Emiya gets UBW up, or doesn't.
 
No confirmation that SDT replaced anything and they don't activate the same way nor have much in common besides name and wings so they probably are different forms with Majin probably being weaker but that's based on nothing.Fear manipulation isn't tied to Mind manipulation so it should work.I would like to know how his useful NP's works.

DT doesn't only boost speed here, it increases Dante's AP and DB as well and the Offense and Quick heart would give him a 10x boost to both AP and speed.
 
Also forgot to mention, Dante's duplication creates a perfect copy of himself so it would 2 Dantes with the same exact abilities and weapons fighting Emiya
 
DragonEmperor23 said:
It's comparable enough to the original that if the two clashed, they would be equal.
Click to expand...
Wut, also can Emiya copy it to the fullest extent? He shouldn't be able to use SDT I know that but will he be able to use it's Sword Formations or the "opened" form?
 
Emiya's Eye of the Mind allows him to view all possibilities of battle and take the one that would result in his victory, even if it's a one percent chance. That's basically how that works.

And the whole point of F/SN is that copies can surpass the original so yes, he can copy it to the fullest extent
 
EMIYA's Rho Aias should allow him to tank Dante's stronger attacks, seeing as how it was able to block all of Kiara's attacks. In addition, the mana upkeep from both devil trigger and doppleganger can exhaust Dante in hours of extended combat (which is what allowed people like Arkham to defeat both him and Vergil in DMC3) and if his magic is completely depleted can also cause other detriments like being unable to use his guns (which also use his magic) while base servants can fight for days while maintaining a good amount of mana, which should be boosted even further with an equipped mythological mystic code and independent action. EMIYA's tracing is confirmed to be unable to project machinery like handguns, being mostly specialized towards melee weapons, so a lot of Dante's ranged weaponry is safe from projection, which means The Jackpot would have to be dodged or countered with Rho Aias. Also should be kept in mind that EMIYA has weapons like harpe that can nullify Dante's Regenerationn while Dante has nothing from what I know with which to nullify EMIYA's. EMIYA also benefits from this battle taking place in Red Grave City, as there should be an abundance of souls from recently dead humans and demons scattered around which he can consume to constantly maintain his mana and health at the max.

The best option for Dante to win is to land an instantly lethal hit early on, while EMIYA needs to stall until Dante is worn down, which shouldn't be impossible given his tool set combined with his eye of the mind, which lets him stalemate against opponents who are vastly superior to him in speed like Lancer (who was moving so fast that EMIYA couldn't even see him) while using only his yin yang swords. In comparison, the tenfold increase in speed that Quick heart gives to Dante shouldn't be as overwhelming. Also since neither character is bloodlusted, Dante might get cocky and underestimate EMIYA, which EMIYA is known to be cunning enough to exploit. Overall I'd say EMIYA has the advantage here.
 
I'd say that Emiya using the souls of deceased individuals is a tad out of character for him, but under equalization, Dante running out of mana is a realistic threat, since his magic would now be running off of mana like any other Magus in the nasuverse. I will say he likely has more than plenty, likely around the level of Arturia. Additionally, Rho Aias is primarily for projectiles, and we don't know how it fairs against non-projectile attacks.

However, your arguement is overall solid, so vote counted.
 
EMIYA actually consumes souls of deceased animals from the Einzbern forest to heal up and get enough mana to survive when Gilgamesh impales him in Unlimited Blade Works, so I wouldn't say its out of character for him to consume souls of demons. He's an antihero guy who would resort to underhanded tactics like that if it meant preventing greater damage.
 
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