League of Legends Problem

[KaramcaS]

Everything about League of Legends on this wiki is contradictory and VERY CONFUSED.

All Tiers are confusing, illogical, and filled with fabricated information.

Especially COSTUME UNIVERSES

• For example God King Garen is 3-B because he can be compared to God Fist Lee Sin BUT these two skins are NOT even in the same universe
• Dreadnova Darius is no different from normal Darius and is unnecessary but is on his profile
• Arcade Costumes are 4-B because it says in Brand's profile that his Arcade costume is comparable to the brand in the normal universe, but there is 0 information and 0 evidence about this.

Although a few Tier 7/8 revisions have been opened for LoL, they are also very complicated because the profiles are not correct.

What I want to present to you here is to remove all skin keys from LoL profiles except Dark Stars/cosmics (because dark star and cosmic are enough)

Along with removing the Costume Keys, I also want to remove the Outdated Low 7-C/7-C Tiers.

Tier 7 is coming to ALL champions from Malphite Power, but there are 3 problems here

• Calc is wrong
• Calc is Outdated
• And there's no point in equating everyone to Malphite right now.

What I'm going to propose now is not the Real Tiers of LoL champions, but simply to create a Basis so that we can open Proper CRTs in the future and bring order to the Verse.

I propose that all Low 7-C characters be 8-C. This is because characters like Garen and Fiora, considered among the weakest champions, can fight and kill Shyvana and other Demacian Dragons. These Dragons deal significant damage to Demacia, making them at least level of "large factories or large complexes such as supermarkets". If you're calling this an "Estimated Tier," then with Garen's feat, which already has a calc, we can make everyone 9-A. Currently 7-C characters are much stronger than Low 7-C characters, so after this revision 7-C characters will be either High 8-C or 8-C.

Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

The same points are made as in the CRT I previously discussed.

Regarding costume universes:

The 4-B grading of arcade costumes is explained in Miss Fortune's profile.

Solar System level (Capable of destroying entire star systems)

Yes, Dreadnova Darius is completely unnecessary.

The only difference between Codename profiles and standard profiles is the addition of energy manipulation. These, too, seem detachable.

I don't think the Dragonslayer series should be removed. Because WK Garen likely has a 7-A, and Dragonblade Riven is a good fit for him.

There's also a 7-A calc for Inferno costumes. There are also fire mps. There's no problem finding those too.

You already mentioned the Dark Star and Cosmic-themed costumes.

The High 6-C value for the Battlecast costumes is listed on Cho Gath's profile. The only problem is the link is broken.

The 5-C value for the Odyssey costumes is listed on Jinx's profile.

Pulsifer has some nice hax and L2-C AP. Might need to be 2-A with the latest update

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

What Apollonir said, those skinlines he mentoined specifically will keep their ratings, while ones that dont have reasonings will be removed as we rework profiles regarding the Low 7-C stuff, which will be removed likewise.

Overall we are trying to do that, just are waiting for a bit to collect all possible feats so that the profiles dont need to be edited multiple times.

 

[KaramcaS]

The 4-B grading of arcade costumes is explained in Miss Fortune's profile.

Thats not Arcade, its Gun Goddess

I made the Arcade characters 4-B, I know where they take the 4-B, its comes from Main Universe Brand

I don't think the Dragonslayer series should be removed. Because WK Garen likely has a 7-A, and Dragonblade Riven is a good fit for him.

Some Dragonslayer characters have profiles that say "comparable to this character," but when we go to that page, that character doesn't have a Dragonslayer key. So, we'll delete that one and add it back later. Similarly, Infernal characters have the correct 7-A's but incorrect speeds. But we need to remove them and then bring them back correctly. Think the same way as Low Quality profiles

The 5-C value for the Odyssey costumes is listed on Jinx's profile.

I've got Odyssey on par with Cosmic, yes. They'll be there too. Star Guardians' 4-B is wrong, they'll be 4-C. I have a panel, but as I said, I'm thinking of bringing it back later as a "Costume Update."

Pulsifer has some nice hax and L2-C AP. Might need to be 2-A with the latest update

Only Ezreal is that strong, other Low 2-C Pulsefire ones should be stay Yeah

Overall we are trying to do that, just are waiting for a bit to collect all possible feats so that the profiles dont need to be edited multiple times.

I thought you could do this better by basing the profiles on the Basic Foundation. That's why I introduced the 8-C/9-A scenario.

We'll first have the characters nicely reset and simplified, then we'll upgrade them nicely. Because all the profiles are currently extremely complex, and they'll only get more confusing with your thread.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I thought you could do this better by basing the profiles on the Basic Foundation. That's why I introduced the 8-C/9-A scenario.

We'll first have the characters nicely reset and simplified, then we'll upgrade them nicely. Because all the profiles are currently extremely complex, and they'll only get more confusing with your thread.

Yea but again, deciding the scaling is something entirely inevitable, and its also workload wise smaller than updating give or take 160ish profiles. Naturally right now without extra feats, a lot of characters would just go to unknown, which imo is fine but, it still wouldnt solve their scaling.

For now i think its better if we give it a bit more time, we collect what there is to collect and then we start changing stuff. And if that wait takes too long or just not enough concrete stuff is found, we can go and change them.

Stuff will get changed though that is 100%

 

[KaramcaS]

Yea but again, deciding the scaling is something entirely inevitable, and its also workload wise smaller than updating give or take 160ish profiles. Naturally right now without extra feats, a lot of characters would just go to unknown, which imo is fine but, it still wouldnt solve their scaling.

For now i think its better if we give it a bit more time, we collect what there is to collect and then we start changing stuff. And if that wait takes too long or just not enough concrete stuff is found, we can go and change them.

Stuff will get changed though that is 100%

LoL related CRTs have never been as good or fast as expected. I want to fix this, and to do that, we first need to make Profiles the Most Basic.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There are issues yes

A blanket CRT to needlessly downgrade the entire verse is not the way to fix it

As I said in the other CRT, there are literally dozens of tier 7 feats for the cast to scale to

 

[KaramcaS]

There are issues yes

A blanket CRT to needlessly downgrade the entire verse is not the way to fix it

As I said in the other CRT, there are literally dozens of tier 7 feats for the cast to scale to

A temporary method to bring better

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

LoL related CRTs have never been as good or fast as expected. I want to fix this, and to do that, we first need to make Profiles the Most Basic.

They have not, but thats why we can work to change that this time, personally i am really against the idea of editing stuff too much, just give it a week or two, if nothing changes at all by then, i will be very on board with changing profiles based on calcs/feats we currently have.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

A temporary method to bring better

Its not though, its using a sledgehammer to fix something that needs to be handled with a chisel

 

[KaramcaS]

What do you suggest we do?

Should we just remove the broken costume keys and leave Low 7-C?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

What do you suggest we do?

Should we just remove the broken costume keys and leave Low 7-C?

That would be the way to start yes, splitting the AU stuff into their own profiles. The tier 7 stuff is already being worked on in another thread.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

What do you suggest we do?

Should we just remove the broken costume keys and leave Low 7-C?

For now, we will leave both, as we apply changes to the Low 7-C stuff, which is the majority of the profiles anyways, we will also remove "broken skinline keys".

Again i dont mind applying the changes myself, someone will have to anyways, but regardless if its me or someone else, i think its less of a sin to wait 1-2 weeks, over making someone edit the same stuff for 4 extra hours.

So does that sound fair?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

For now, we will leave both, as we apply changes to the Low 7-C stuff, which is the majority of the profiles anyways, we will also remove "broken skinline keys".

Again i dont mind applying the changes myself, someone will have to anyways, but regardless if its me or someone else, i think its less of a sin to wait 1-2 weeks, over making someone edit the same stuff for 4 extra hours.

So does that sound fair?

I disagree wholeheartedly. This isnt an issue that can be fixed with a broad brush

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

I disagree wholeheartedly. This isnt an issue that can be fixed with a broad brush

I am not saying we should, i am saying we should take said more time to find what needs to be found, and if there is no progress whatsoever, after this thread has been around for months now, we should do something which is use what we currently have.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

My idea: Let's list the items that need to be scaled to Tier 7. Then, if they need a calc, one of us can do it. Then, when adding them to the profiles, if there's a featless costume key that needs to be deleted, let's delete that too.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

My idea: Let's list the items that need to be scaled to Tier 7. Then, if they need a calc, one of us can do it. Then, when adding them to the profiles, if there's a featless costume key that needs to be deleted, let's delete that too.

Yes absolutely agree, its simple and we just go through the stuff one by one and remove featless skinline keys.

So what we need to do now is just focus on finding said feats/calcs which still havent been explored.

 

[KaramcaS]

Remove:
Dragon Verse
God-King/Nightbringer/Dawnbringer (except Yasuo & Riven)
Battle Academia Verse
Elementalist Lux
Arcade/Battle Boss Verse
PROJECT/Program Verse (except Veigar)
Dreadnova (except Gangplank)
High Noon Verse
Eternum Verse
Mecha Kingdoms Verse
Praetorians

Hold:
Warring Kingdoms Verse
Dark Star/Cosmic
Star Guardian (4-C; Stated that she is capable of destroying the sun on a whim)
Odyssey
Pentakill
Pulsefire
Infernal
Spirit Guard (I have a possibly 5-B upgrade for him)
Worldbreaker Verse
God Fist/God Staff/
Nightbringer Yasuo/Dawnbringer Riven (I have a possibly Low 1-C upgrade for them)
Battlecast/Resistance Verse
Aether Wing/Blade Mistress/Gun Goddess/Bullet Angel
Devil Teemo
Final Boss Veigar

What do you thinks about this

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Remove:
Dragon Verse
God-King/Nightbringer/Dawnbringer (except Yasuo & Riven)
Battle Academia Verse
Elementalist Lux
Arcade/Battle Boss Verse
PROJECT/Program Verse (except Veigar)
Dreadnova (except Gangplank)
High Noon Verse
Eternum Verse
Mecha Kingdoms Verse
Praetorians

Hold:
Warring Kingdoms Verse
Dark Star/Cosmic
Star Guardian (4-C; Stated that she is capable of destroying the sun on a whim)
Odyssey
Pentakill
Pulsefire
Infernal
Spirit Guard (I have a possibly 5-B upgrade for him)
Worldbreaker Verse
God Fist/God Staff/
Nightbringer Yasuo/Dawnbringer Riven (I have a possibly Low 1-C upgrade for them)
Battlecast/Resistance Verse
Aether Wing/Blade Mistress/Gun Goddess/Bullet Angel
Devil Teemo
Final Boss Veigar

What do you thinks about this

Imo in large part that seems fine, but i am also not nearly invested in skinlines, will happily edit them but whatever you and others agree to im fine with applying.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Remove:
Dragon Verse
God-King/Nightbringer/Dawnbringer (except Yasuo & Riven)
Battle Academia Verse
Elementalist Lux
Arcade/Battle Boss Verse
PROJECT/Program Verse (except Veigar)
Dreadnova (except Gangplank)
High Noon Verse
Eternum Verse
Mecha Kingdoms Verse
Praetorians

Hold:
Warring Kingdoms Verse
Dark Star/Cosmic
Star Guardian (4-C; Stated that she is capable of destroying the sun on a whim)
Odyssey
Pentakill
Pulsefire
Infernal
Spirit Guard (I have a possibly 5-B upgrade for him)
Worldbreaker Verse
God Fist/God Staff/
Nightbringer Yasuo/Dawnbringer Riven (I have a possibly Low 1-C upgrade for them)
Battlecast/Resistance Verse
Aether Wing/Blade Mistress/Gun Goddess/Bullet Angel
Devil Teemo
Final Boss Veigar

What do you thinks about this

The Nightbringer and Dawnbriner line is fine, they all for the most part have feats on that level

Praetorians are part of the Pulsefire line

Star Guardians have tier 2 feats

 

[KaramcaS]

The Nightbringer and Dawnbriner line is fine, they all for the most part have feats on that level

Which Nightbringer or Dawnbringer has any feat

Praetorians are part of the Pulsefire line

Only Graves has a Pratorian Profile and He is 4-B. He gets 4-B from Praetorian Fiddle and Pulsefire Pantheon. Fiddle doesnt have any Praetorian Key. Pulsefire Pantheon doesnt have any 4-B section. And can he get scale from Pulsefire Pantheon's Hax?

Star Guardians have tier 2 feats

Really? Should we talk about these in the "Costume Update" or here?

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Really? Should we talk about these in the "Costume Update" or here?

Nilah fought and defeated Ashlesh who was a threat to the cosmos, and likewise fought beings "whose abilities surpass those of the first star", i think thats the tldr, but might be forgetting some

 

[KaramcaS]

Nilah fought and defeated Ashlesh who was a threat to the cosmos, and likewise fought beings "whose abilities surpass those of the first star", i think thats the tldr, but might be forgetting some

Nah its not enough for a tier I think

NOW, what are we gonna do about Weird LoL profiles and Broken Skin Keys

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Nah its not enough for a tier I think

NOW, what are we gonna do about Weird LoL profiles and Broken Skin Keys

I think the second one is, i mean she fought creatures stronger than the First Star who created the universe.

Regardless what do you mean on second part?

 

[KaramcaS]

I think the second one is, i mean she fought creatures stronger than the First Star who created the universe.

Regardless what do you mean on second part?

Low 7-C 8-C. Costume Keys

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Low 7-C 8-C. Costume Keys

As already discussed, more feats/calcs will be collected and then we will revise them in the coming weeks. If there is no progress at all, we will adjust who needs to be adjusted to their respect 9-A/8-C whatever ratings and skinlines will be dealt with at same time so there arent multiple edit spams needed.

If you want some work to actively be done, i suppose you can make a proper thread for the skinlines where there can be a proper discussion on whats kept and whats discarded, by the time thats decided i would hope most of the main universe feats will be collected

 

[KaramcaS]

This thread can be closed

 

[KaramcaS]

Im gonna make a basic simple cosumte fix thread

 

[KaramcaS]

Im gonna make a basic simple cosumte fix thread

Nah I wont, My brain didnt get all of these

 

[denisnic55]

Isn't the lore, at least for the champs, basically not canon anymore? If I remember correctly everything up to late 2022 so all up to LoR Darkin War? I'm pretty sure there was uncertainty even among rioters regarding this but I remember multiple rioters, even Mortdog talking about this (he probably isn't a reliable source but still a rioter)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Isn't the lore, at least for the champs, basically not canon anymore? If I remember correctly everything up to late 2022 so all up to LoR Darkin War? I'm pretty sure there was uncertainty even among rioters regarding this but I remember multiple rioters, even Mortdog talking about this (he probably isn't a reliable source but still a rioter)

Not at all, that was just for the piltover/zaun champs but they got their update recently so everything lorewise is now fully Canon again

 

[FinePoint]

It seems like there's been some debate and conclusions here among the supporters.

What final proposal are we actually pushing for here?

 

[KaramcaS]

It seems like there's been some debate and conclusions here among the supporters.

What final proposal are we actually pushing for here?

They're in the process of doing a Feat Research for about a week to figure out how strong the average Champion is. If they can't find anything, I'm offering a downgrade to adjust the profiles.

 

[FinePoint]

They're in the process of doing a Feat Research for about a week to figure out how strong the average Champion is. If they can't find anything, I'm offering a downgrade to adjust the profiles.

Alright. I don't mind waiting for that.

 

[Shiedaisthepeak]

I think I'm a bit late, aren't I?

• For example God King Garen is 3-B because he can be compared to God Fist Lee Sin BUT these two skins are NOT even in the same universe

Well, to be frank, regarding Garen, I can say this: he is someone who possesses the power of Dawnbringer Riven and, similarly, stands out as her descendant. Of course, I'm not saying he is as powerful as Riven, but he certainly possesses her abilities and strength, so he should be comparable.

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

I think I'm a bit late, aren't I?

Well, to be frank, regarding Garen, I can say this: he is someone who possesses the power of Dawnbringer Riven and, similarly, stands out as her descendant. Of course, I'm not saying he is as powerful as Riven, but he certainly possesses her abilities and strength, so he should be comparable.

W pfp

 

[KaramcaS]

I think I'm a bit late, aren't I?

Well, to be frank, regarding Garen, I can say this: he is someone who possesses the power of Dawnbringer Riven and, similarly, stands out as her descendant. Of course, I'm not saying he is as powerful as Riven, but he certainly possesses her abilities and strength, so he should be comparable.

• God-King Garen and God-King Darius are far-flung, deific descendants of the original cosmic entities, Dawnbringer Riven and Nightbringer Yasuo respectively. They are the last two descendants, making their war the end of their own universe's mythology. Both have become mortal (to a small degree), and have twisted their ancestors' original purposes to suit more personal needs.

Other than that, giving them any tier because of Riven and Yasuo is Headcanon

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

bump

 

[Apollonir.Scale]

bump

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Well, there is no movement at all so imo it is fine to go work with the calcs etc we currently got.

Later on in the day i will make a list suggesting where champs could/should scale to