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One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #6

Damage3245

Damage3245

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Quite a few calcs have been remade in the light of certain errors being discovered in previous calcs, this means that a lot of the current scaling chains for Post-Timeskip characters are obsolete and require a thorough examination. Here is a rough list of all the calcs to take into consideration.

Here is the previous thread.

Here is a list of all the profiles to cover - some of which have new, estimated ratings already.

Current Topics

  • Deciding on the ratings for the Dressrosa Arc Mid Tiers and Top Tiers.
  • Deciding on how to rate the Top Tiers of the verse.
  • Picking any remaining feats to be calced to make the scaling clearer.
 
Also returning with the Current Topics.

Top Tiers:

With the downgrade of the Birdcage the only remaning feats that remains the Gigatons range are just Zunisha's Walk, Zunisha's Trunk and Fujitora's Meteorites.

At this point i think it would make more sense (powerscaling wise) for the admirals to be put just at 6-C like the yonko, as ranking them at anything less would make little sense.

For the strongest yonko commanders instead they could just scale to Zunisha's trunk swing, so either Likely 6-C and if not At least 7-A, likely 6-C.
 
Thank you for the Don Sai calc. I trust it'll be accepted so I'll add it in to the OP for now.

@Stefano; since none of the Admirals have a 6-C calc themselves, and Old Whitebeard only recieves his 6-C rating through rough scaling, do you think it would be fine if we rated the Admirals as Likely 6-C?

In the previous thread I suggested that Old Whitebeard, Big Mom and Shanks be rated as Likely 6-C. So the Admirals would be joining them with that.
 
Damage3245 said:
@Stefano; since none of the Admirals have a 6-C calc themselves, and Old Whitebeard only recieves his 6-C rating through rough scaling, do you think it would be fine if we rated the Admirals as Likely 6-C?

In the previous thread I suggested that Old Whitebeard, Big Mom and Shanks be rated as Likely 6-C. So the Admirals would be joining them with that.
Click to expand...
Yes i guess, even if i don't think it is necessary, Yonko are pretty intro 6-C (at least 6.488 times above baseline thanks of Zunisha's Walk), so while the Admirals are weaker than Yonko they should still be above baseline 6-C, beside there is also the matter that in theory Akainu's devil power > Fujitora's devil power in term of destructive power.

For Old Whitebeard, Big Mom and Shanks i don't see why a Likely is even needed, it been pointed out more than enough times that only a Yonko can trully equal another Yonko and despire his old age WB was considered the strongest pirate at that time so him be superior or equal to Kaido should not even be questioned (no matter what people think).
 
While the rest of what you say makes sense, this bit:

> there is also the matter that in theory Akainu's devil power > Fujitora's devil power in term of destructive power.

Isn't entirely relevant. Akainu's DF being superior to Fuji's DF doesn't mean that he is superior to Fuji's meteors.

I explained on the previous thread that the energy resulting from the kinetic impact of the meteor is not the same as the energy that Fujitora imparts into the meteor to pull it into the planet's gravity well.
 
Stefano is factually correct. The yonko are for a (fact) on the same level as each other, the "likely" doesn't make any sense, if Kaido is 6C they're also guaranteed to be 6C. Old wb is included in that and from him Akainu/Aokiji/Kizaru are all 100% 6C.
 
Anyway, continuing.

Dressrosa Arc Tiers

I still think that High Tiers during the Dressrosa Arc should be 7-A, while the Mid Tiers would be 7-B to At least 7-B.

Luffy in his Gear 2nd was able to survive a direct hit from Fujitora's Ferocious Tiger (which was calc to be City level+) and he was still relatively fine and is not like Doflamingo wasn't the only one in that arc who could damage him or still match in that form, Hody Jones (with overdose of steroids) was able to harm him and Chinjao did battle him for an extend period of time.

And there are other people like Zoro, Law or Sanji who should had Durability comparable to Gear 2nd Luffy and just like the case above there had be characters capable to harm the formers like Vergo, adding Pica's feat in the mix and considering that later we had Oven's 7-B feat in the next arc (who shouldn't be far stronger than Dressrosa High Tiers), and there is enough proof to put them at 7-B or at least Likely 7-B, while everyone else could be just at At least 7-B.


Now the bigger dilemma is what we do with Doflamingo and Fujitora, as they now lack of any feats that could help us with their tiers (beside the meteorites but everyone agree that they do not scale) and the only thing left is pure scaling.

For Fujitora's case, the most logical at this point would be scale him with the other admirals (fully or partially), as scaling him to much weaker characters would be an illogical downgrade.

For Doflamingo's case the situation is more complex, while feats and statements put it to a level comparable to a top yonko commader (stopping Jozu while he was performing an attack, Aokiji say that an admiral would be needed to deal with him, fight Crocodile at Marineford who was strong enough to block an attack from Mihawk), he was still rekted by Gear 4th Luffy who at that time was as strong as a top yonko commander.
 
EDIT: Let's not discuss the top tiers for now. I think we're going to have to have a big discussion about them and their ratings because right now they aren't based on solid calcs but a couple of statements. Luffy also has resistance to blunt damage which I think Fujitora's attack would count as.

I would recommend that the Dressrosa Tiers go like this:

Zoro: At least City level (Daisen calc), likely higher

Pica: City level (Could fight Zoro but was clearly inferior), up to Mountain level with enough stone

Vergo: City level (Roughly the same as Pica)

Diamante: City level (Roughly the same as Pica)

Trebol: City level (Roughly the same as Pica)

Kyros: City level (Beat Diamante)

Chinjao: City level (Clashed with base & Gear 2 Luffy but was one-shot by Gear3 Luffy)

Elizabello: From Large Town level+ to City level with King Punch (Depending on charge time)

Bartolomeo's Barriers: At least City level (Blocked the King Punch and was unharmed)

Don Sai: Small City level (Small City level calc for his kick, was one-shot by Gear 2 Luffy)

Ideo: Small City level (Fought Sai but was one-shot by Chinjao)
 
Damage3245 said:
Luffy also has resistance to blunt damage which I think Fujitora's attack would count as.
Click to expand...
I find it hard to believe that Luffy's rubber body was the sole reason he survived Fujitora's attack and not because he is just that durable, aside of that wouldn't Fujitora had used Haki again Luffy which would nullify his blunt damage resistance?
 
Agree with all except Sai. He overpowers Chinjao in a clash and it's a stronger version of Chinjao than the one Luffy fought, he should also be city level. Also he wasn't harmed at all by Luffys G2 attack.
 
Stefano4444 said:
I find it hard to believe that Luffy's rubber body was the sole reason he survived Fujitora's attack and not because he is just that durable, aside of that wouldn't Fujitora had used Haki again Luffy which would nullify his blunt damage resistance?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's the sole reason, I'm saying it just helps him out.

Can Fujitora imbue his gravity with Haki? Possibly.

@VioleLFC; actually Chinjao says he's been ill since his match with Luffy and weaker than usual.

And he was still sent flying from a Haki-less Gear 2 kick. That's a fairly casual attack from Luffy.
 
He does say that, but he breaks Chinjaos Haki infused drill head, and the scene implies Sai has gotten stronger and surpassed or is equal to Chinjao. Cannot upload pics so I'll quote: "Your true power has finally awakened" "the secret of the hasshoken style has been passed on to you"

Chinjao then christens his leg the "drill dragon nail" (Similar to his own attack name) and states that Sais foot is powerful enough to split the ice continent. A "possibly" city level at least I think is warranted

Also taking the G2 hit and coming out unscathed would make him City level wouldn't it? Especially since it was a surprise attack from behind
 
Okay, so Small City level, possibly higher could be fine for Sai.

> Also taking the G2 hit and coming out unscathed would make him City level wouldn't it?

Not necessarily since Luffy wasn't using any visible Haki.
 
@Stefano: I'll explain it more simply then:

The terms possibly and likely are used here to denote where a character may stand deespite not having a proper calc/scale to refer to. We're not saying the Yonko aren't 6-C, we're saying that within the parameters of how the forum is supposed to scale characters we cannot give them a more than likely since their value is indeterminate.

Likewise the admirals should not scale to 6-C because their only basis is two of them injuring WB. The bar for Injuring WB was set incredibly low by Top tier standards so to give them 6-C for WB reasoning we would have to give pretty much everyone and thier goldfish 6-C in order to commit to that reasoning.

Now that High 7-A is out of the window there is even less support for any one being 6-C. I'm not even sure if Kaido can scale now since I'm sure someone will eventually call Zuu out as an outlier. :-(
 
@Dr. Fix; I wouldn't call Zunisha an outlier necessarily but we don't have a whole lot connecting Kaido to those calcs besides the one statement.

We're using the general statement of Kaido being the strongest creature to say that he must be more powerful than the energy produced from walking of a creature many, many, many times larger than he is.

It's not a very solid basis to use as the reason for every single top tier character being 6-C; especially when so many of them perform feats way below that level.
 
Zunisha has two 6-C calcs according to the OP. And it seems like Whitebeard and Blackbeard have feats that are in the 6-C range at least. Though Damage wants to calc them, so let's wait on that.

Whitebeard was injured by fodder because they used piercing and cutting attacks, which most of the characters are weak to without some form of defense. This is like sword level durability for most of the Narutoverse all over again. They can be harmed by kunai and swords without cloaks or other such defenses. It's the same for most OP characters without Armament and such.
 
I'd prefer to keep it, if we could, because otherwise it means downgrading the verse to 7-A / High 7-A territory, or a lot of Unknowns, but I don't think we can use it to say everyone is that high.

At best the only people who we should say are solidly 6-C are Kaido and Prime Whitebeard. (If you don't like Whitebeard being rated that highly, just remember he has a statement just as good as Kaido's statement).

Old Whitebeard, Shanks, Big Mom and Blackbeard are all Likely 6-C but it's impossible to say when they scale to in Gigatons exactly; I don't have any reason to believe they scale directly to Zunisha's calc.

Again, being in the same tier as Kaido doesn't mean they scale to his rating specifically.
 
@Damage I replied your question about Pica in the previous thread but I got no response on that matter so I'd like to know what do you think about that.

The statement for WB is still solid in his old age. That's how we met him and it was repeated several times.

@General I like the way of how the restriction was completely ignored.
 
> The statement for WB is still solid in his old age. That's how we met him and it was repeated several times.

At the same time, they reiterate that Whitebeard has grown weaker and is clearly ill.

I think your conclusion was that base Pica would have City level AP, but he should get Mountain level durability?

Would that even affect anyone elses scaling?
 
Yes, but that suggest that in the past he was even stronger.

Only Zoro IIRC. It'd put him at 7-A which is the same case for his Wano self
 
@Damage what statement are you talking about?

EDIT: I'm glad you at least acknowledge a difference between Old and Prime Whitebeard.
 
^^Assuming that actually gets approved and not immediately questioned then the only calc I see it changing are the meteors which have been ruled out as ED. Not really a big deal as far as this thread goes.
 
^^ Killjoy :(.

Jokes aside, I agree with likely 6-C for the admirals, the rest of the Yonko are fine as 6-C since they really shouldnt be that weaker than Kaido.
 
Dr.Fix said:
^^Assuming that actually gets approved and not immediately questioned then the only calc I see it changing are the meteors which have been ruled out as ED. Not really a big deal as far as this thread goes.
Click to expand...
That and any feats that relies on distance to horizon in its calculation.
 
And a few speed feats. Also Fujitora's Meteorites haven't even reached a conclusion yet so I don't know why people are saying it got rejected. We're having that entire discussion later.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
And a few speed feats. Also Fujitora's Meteorites haven't even reached a conclusion yet so I don't know why people are saying it got rejected. We're having that entire discussion later.
Click to expand...
We could have the discussion now if everyone wants it.

I think I summarized the points earlier for why it shouldn't scale.
 
I feel like it has been discussed a few times already but if Rin has new information to propose I look forward to it.
 
So is it agreed that Old Chinjao is now City Level? If so, that bumps up characters like Cavendish and Robin into that tier.
 
Not necessarily. Chinjao didn't use Haki when he fought Cavendish, and Cavendish was unable to hurt him.

Chinjao was fairly casual until he was in the ring and fighting Luffy.

To be honest I think it makes more sense for Chinjao to be Small City level given that he was defeated by a Small City level calced attack.
 
True, but Cavendish was still able to casually match the strength of Old Chinjao's headbutt with a single arm, and there's also him deflecting the attack Doflamingo was trying to kill Law with. And he was much more serious when he did the latter.

Another argument for Old Chinjao being City level would be him destroying Golem Pica's arm with his drill.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm not saying it's the sole reason, I'm saying it just helps him out.
Click to expand...
That's still not a good reason to dismiss the entire feat, it should still scale Gear 2nd Luffy's Durability at minimum.
 
Damage3245 said:
To be honest I think it makes more sense for Chinjao to be Small City level given that he was defeated by a Small City level calced attack.
Click to expand...
I doubt, Chinjao was still capable to fought Gear 2nd Luffy for an extend period of time and he was only outmatched by the Gear 3rd, 7-B seen to make more sense.

Also along with Elizabello he was able to stop and attack from Golem Pica and even destroy one of his massive arm, a feat that only Zoro and Luffy were able to replicate or surpass.

And yes, Sai's Dragon Nail is just Low 7-B, but we must considered the scaling too.

If Chinjao get to be 7-B, then Sai (or at least his Dragon Nail) should be rank at 7-B too, because in this case scaling take priority.

Just like how Big Mom should be 6-C despire his best feats are only in the Megatons of TNT range.
 
Since the calc has already been accepted you might as well.

> That's still not a good reason to dismiss the entire feat, it should still scale Gear 2nd Luffy's Durability at minimum.

Gear 2 doesn't increase Luffy's durability, you're saying that it should scale to base Luffy's durability.

And you will notice that I didn't say it dismisses the entire feat; I'm not just saying that Luffy can tank that attack better than other characters comparable to himself.

Same reason why he can take a punch from Buddha-form Sengoku yet not be a ridiculous outlier.

> True, but Cavendish was still able to casually match the strength of Old Chinjao's headbutt with a single arm, and there's also him deflecting the attack Doflamingo was trying to kill Law with. And he was much more serious when he did the latter. Another argument for Old Chinjao being City level would be him destroying Golem Pica's arm with his drill.

Cavendish matched a casual headbutt, Doflamingo's attack has an unknown potency, and Old Chinjao & Elizabello destroying Pica's arm was calced to be Large Town level+ each.
 
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