Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade

[KingTempest]

Is it just because of UES?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Why are we assuming that Sukuna's chants have the same potency as Gojo's?

Most probably his chants may have higher potency because of 2 mouths and hands. But it's unknown to how much. But it's clear chapter 238 his body is perfect for chants kinda shows it will be atleast on that level.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Good coooking, i agree.
Now if we could get that Low 7-B Gojo earthquake calc accepted it would be perfect

It was island level iirc

 

[Duedate8898]

Is it just because of UES?

Yes, with UES we treat attacks as scaling between everything unless otherwise specified. The specifications we have in Cursed Energy are Domain Expansions, Maximum Techniques, and Maximum Outputs maybe. Since the fire arrow doesn't fall under either of those things, its fine ground to scale Sukuna's normal AP to it.

 

[KingTempest]

That's lazy scaling

Sukuna's flames have been used twice. To completely incinerate or vaporize someone who took his attacks. One of them resistant to flames.

But now because they have the same energy source, they're the same in yield?

 

[Duedate8898]

This is basic scaling Tempest.

We have good reason to believe Sukuna wasn't being serious his entire fight with Mahoraga as he is known to toy around and not go all out from the start, we're even shown him later on still 15F, and probably stronger, dealing only a little damage then one-shotting a character, Ryu. Mahoraga adapted to slashing attacks so any other attempts afterwards he had resistance to therefore meaning Sukuna could no longer one-shot, Sukuna then uses a different attack that hasn't been adapated to yet to kill Mahoraga.

Since all of this is Sukuna's cursed energy, all of this is perfect grounds for scaling. Just because he only use the fire twice doesn't mean it can't scale to the rest of his attacks and since the fire attack isn't tied to any of the in-universe reasons for as to why attacks would scale above normal AP, Sukuna's stats should be fine.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's lazy scaling

Sukuna's flames have been used twice. To completely incinerate or vaporize someone who took his attacks. One of them resistant to flames.

But now because they have the same energy source, they're the same in yield?

Jogo never tanked any slashes he got damaged from normal dismantle. Sukuna should be able to one shot Jogo with his Dismantle or Physical abilities alone.

Sukuna only uses fire arrow because he was having fun and wanted to neg Jogo with his own speciality

Also Let's not forget Jogo body was still burning to some time it didn't got one shoted in an instant.

Yes, with UES we treat attacks as scaling between everything unless otherwise specified. The specifications we have in Cursed Energy are Domain Expansions, Maximum Techniques, and Maximum Outputs maybe. Since the fire arrow doesn't fall under either of those things, its fine ground to scale Sukuna's normal AP to it.

Yeah unless it's specified fire arrow is one of these which is not technically as Gege in fanbook stated Sukuna has two CT nature fire is another technique of his that's all.

Anyway he should be able to control the output. Whenever a character uses Max technique or max Output Gege does mentions them. So fire arrow which negged Mahogara should scale to Sukuna. It was not a max technique or max output.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

My issue is that cursed energy output is consistently shown to vary in verse when it comes to techniques and physicals. In fact, if I remember correctly, Ryu is the only character that is stated to not lose any power whether he’s using a technique or not (meaning his CE-imbued physical attacks scale to his Granite Blast)

Sukuna is not stated to have the same thing, so I believe that we should regard the Fire Arrow as having its own output

 

[Dr._whiteee]

My issue is that cursed energy output is consistently shown to vary in verse when it comes to techniques and physicals. In fact, if I remember correctly, Ryu is the only character that is stated to not lose any power whether he’s using a technique or not (meaning his CE-imbued physical attacks scale to his Granite Blast)

Sukuna is not stated to have the same thing, so I believe that we should regard the Fire Arrow as having its own output

Yuta was able to nearly match Ryu's output with his odd CE attacks on the fly. Sukuna has > 2x the CE of Yuta and is vastly more skilled in CE knowledge/efficiency. There is no reason Sukuna doesn't scale to this application.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Don't forget Sukuna without CT (with only his physical sts) was keeping up with Gojo. Even when Sukuna used his CT against Gojo damage done to gojo wasn't much difference. There is nothing indicates Flames and Dismantles are way above Sukuna physicals.

As I already said if there is a statement for Max Output or technique for Flames that's a different thing but it was never stated.

 

[azontr]

The scaling looks fine to me outside of HP but that's already been addressed (and has already been planned to be removed anyways).

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

To me, this seems like an obvious distinction between DC vs AP. Flame Arrow, and Dismantle & Cleave are obviously more destructive than say, his normal punches. But at the same time, Gojo does mention 80% of your strength is using your CT.

 

[azontr]

I doubt Gojo meant raw power when referencing that, since some CT don't rely on that.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

So is the general consensus that Sukuna's fire arrow is fine to scale his AP from?

Cause if so I'll go ahead and update op to reflect that

 

[Duedate8898]

I think so, though KT, Clover, and Maz don't appear to have changed their minds.

 

[KingTempest]

Put my vote as neutral. I don't want to be the one to hold this thread back solely on my view or disagreeal of the UES concept, or specifically on how it works in this scenario

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Put my vote as neutral. I don't want to be the one to hold this thread back solely on my view or disagreeal of the UES concept, or specifically on how it works in this scenario

Appreciate the compliance

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Updated OP

Tweaked the wording a little and will tweak it even more as we go on

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

higher with Chants (Chants can increase the potency of a cursed technique by 80%),

This is I'm not sure
Utahime technique amps 120% normal output
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_223_010.png
Gojos HP was 200% with Utahime and others overall amp
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_223_012.png
We don't have an specific amp for chants but it will be higher than normal output that's all.

 

[Duedate8898]

We put it 80% because we know Utahime's cursed technique allows her to amplify the output of others and by doing her full chant she can get their output at 120% as you yourself say. There's nowhere else for Gojo to be getting the rest of his amp for Hollow Purple here and since the Chant isn't just his usage of words but the gestures and everything else that goes into it, so he has to be making up for that 80% himself that gets him to 200%

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

We put it 80% because we know Utahime's cursed technique allows her to amplify the output of others and by doing her full chant she can get their output at 120% as you yourself say. There's nowhere else for Gojo to be getting the rest of his amp for Hollow Purple here and since the Chant isn't just his usage of words but the gestures and everything else that goes into it, so he has to be making up for that 80% himself that gets him to 200%

I think it's better to consider that as binding vow instead of Chants. I don't know what he sacrificed to get 80% amps though.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjk_23412_010.png
Btw I agree with 80% amp though it's better to rewrite it as Binding Vow. It doesn't seem like he can keep spamming that 80% amp each time.

 

[Duedate8898]

I think you're forgetting that Sukuna doesn't actually know what Gojo used to amp his attack earlier in that fight. He concludes a binding vow cause that makes sense as a way for sorcerers to amp themselves, but the actual scene itself shows Gojo using
a separate cursed technique and his chants to get to the amplification he did.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Fair enough

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Erm... bump

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Not sure what this can add, but Mahoraga threw out a punch that Sukuna had to block, which even he complimented, and sent him flying through the curtain.

Just wanna reiterate. He could also take Sukuna’s punches, at 15F.

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Just wanna reiterate. He could also take Sukuna’s punches, at 15F.

To be fair, Sukuna appears to be trying less here than when he was, say, punching Maki in the face

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

To be fair, Sukuna appears to be trying less here than when he was, say, punching Maki in the face

Not sure if that comparison is valid, considering we can’t know for sure, Sukuna was at 100% as opposed to 10% output for abilities, and the fact that Yuji is a physically superior vessel.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Just wanna reiterate. He could also take Sukuna’s punches, at 15F.

dude so could Jogo.
and the one time that Sukuna actually hit him for real he smashed him through about 8 floors and ripped his jaw clean off and even than he was playing around.

Hell I mean most of the time we see Sukuna fighting weaker opponents with his physicals he usually plays around, I mean look at his "fight" with Megumi at the start of the story where he let him smack on Yuji's body for a bit and than Sukuna just started playing around with Megumi, his fight with the finger barer where smashes it into the floor, he has its head in his palm and could end the fight right there as we see two seconds later that he can rip of its limbs without even trying, his fight with Jogo is self explanatory, then his fight with Yuji and Maki he smashes Yuji through multiple buildings at the start of the fight with a casual gut punch he than starts to smack Yuji around without using his CT until he let Yuji beat on him for a bit than Maki shows up after Sukuna realizes that Megumi is limiting his output by a factor of more than 10 and even with that he all of a sudden can just easily block and swap hands with both Maki and Yuji at the same time with little to no difficulty.

honestly the only time we've seen Sukuna actually trying to kill somebody off the bat is funnily enough Kashimo, Sukuna didn't try to enjoy the fight or nothing he literally started with the big ol'world slice after slamming Kashimo into the dirt with his 4 arms.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

dude so could Jogo.
and the one time that Sukuna actually hit him for real he smashed him through about 8 floors and ripped his jaw clean off and even than he was playing around.

Sukuna punched Mahoraga and he was okay. Sukuna cut off Jogo’s limbs. Not comparable.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Also to quickly address the whole "CT's don't scale to physical stats" thing, they absolutely do, I mean the whole explanation that Gojo gave about CE to CT is the greatest example of that, we see that the use of cursed energy alone is like throwing out pure power or smashing the can while the use of CT is akin to a fine and precise strike with the can being twisted instead of crushed, Unless a technique is directly stated to output more power like nanami's ratio it shouldn't be vastly above physical stats, CT's provide a sorcerer with the ability to gain an advantage in a fight or to focus their power for example instead of using their CE to punch a person through multiple buildings they can use it to create a slash that can cut through that person and the buildings ect ect.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Sukuna punched Mahoraga and he was okay. Sukuna cut off Jogo’s limbs. Not comparable.

not what I am talking about

start of their fight sukuna punched jogo out of the station and we can see that jogo is still in one solid piece damaged but not dismembered

then next chapter we start of with sukuna playing around he smashes jogo in the head

that results in no severe damage other than his volcano thing deforming akin to skin being pushed in, but then Sukuna ramps it up a bit grabs Jogo by the face and slams him

through seven floors in one go again without putting in the effort and that results in

Jogo having half his face destroyed and ripped right off

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Bump

 

[Cropfist]

I agree with this.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Seems this might become irrelevant soon but still bumping

 

[Spinoirr]

eh not really, it still upgrades some characters

Seems this might become irrelevant soon but still bumping

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Seems this might become irrelevant soon but still bumping

You should drop a message on Lordgriffith and @DarkDragonMedeus they will sure to give input

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Well I'm fine with the updates since the calcs are accepted but not sure I can comment on the scaling since I don't know the verse so I'll leave that to the knowledgeable members.