• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

One Piece Post-Timeskip Scaling and Calcs #6

Adam of darkness said:
IIRC Doffy and others were at the top of palace which Pica elevated 2 km above ground. Fuji could have easily crashed the meteor and elevate the destroyed chunks of both meteor and palace so it does not harm people on the ground. Not like it is out of his ability, we already saw he can do that stuff
Click to expand...
Let's be honest--Dressrosa second half was a hot mess. I don't think Luffy and Law should have fought him in the end. Maybe have Law fight Doflamingo while Burgess attacks Luffy or something, then have Fujitora just say "forget it" and fights Doflamingo and ultimately wins. We don't need Luffy taking out EVERY major antagonist, especially in this case where it would make more sense for someone stronger to show off. It would've been better to save the Gear 4th reveal for Whole Cake when Luffy fights Cracke.

Fujitora "cares about the people", but he basically watched Doflamingo wreck havoc, and didn't bother trying to stop him. He literally sat on the King's Plateau while everyone was dying.

@Calaca - I mean, possibly. The meteorites didn't slow down at all and passed less than a few milliseconds in between (if they are going 11,000m/s at minimum, they are only like 500 or so meters apart at most [didn't scale, so fact-check me], so like .0455 seconds at most), basically having all of them crash in with almost no delay.

@Damage - Personally, I think if we're going to argue about the "chunks", we should make a separate thread and get staff input on the matter since this would have a major impact on scaling one way or the other, as I do firmly believe that the meteorite destruction and thread gaps were simplified in order to prevent too much detail, or too much time spent on several panels.

  • Besides, if we're viewing threads that are scaled to be way less than 1cm in thickness (was it .0889cm? I forgot), then we can't even make them out from dozens of meters away, let alone the wide-shots from kilometers away from perspective.
  • No matter the argument on the spacing between the threads, nothing can justify the meteorites being cut in only 7 pieces, but again--topic for another thread.
  • And if anyone can't tell, yes, I strongly think we need to scale Bird-Cage to Doffy's AP if he has the capacity to summon all the strings from the palm of his hand or from his clone.
Also, Damage, if we're assuming the meteorite came to a full stop, then the entire KE was stopped by the cage, whether or not it came full contact. All that is known (from the anime, if we are really going to argue that) is that the energy was completely halted because of the cage.

  • We can argue that it "slowed down", but then we wouldn't know an exact value from the manga anyways.
  • We can also argue that it didn't slow down and simply ripped itself apart from passing through the cage, leaving us with the current value.
 
@Calaca

So what are the conclusions here so far? Have you begun to apply the 6-C scaling to the Yonkou and the admirals yet?
 
IIRC the profiles were updated to 6-C far ago. The current discussion is about some of the Dressrosa's ratings.

I believe that this discussion will turn easier once I get to finish my sandbox with the respect thread for the arc and we discuss about some of the calcs (i.e. the Birdcage especifically), but the problem comes when the attention is diverted with some other topics.
 
Okay. That is good. I will unfollow this discussion again then.
 
Cin, before we actually address the meteors, you would agree that generally AP does not automatically scale to durability, right?

So for example if Jozu tanked a Large Mountain level attack, we could say he has Large Mountain level durability but we cannot automatically say he has Large Mountain level AP with no other feats.
 
There's a reason Fuji doesn't fight Doffy though I don't remember it. Fuji taking out Doffy would be terrible, all of that build up and conflict/history with Law just for some outsider to take him out, awful anticlimactic writing. It should have been law instead of Luffy.
 
Rin The Dragon Empress said:
It's typically assumed that Durability equals AP iirc.
Click to expand...
Indeed. But not the other way around, from my understanding,
 
It's the other way around Rin; durability has to scale to AP (in a lot of cases) due to Newton's laws of physics because you have to be tough enough withstand the force of your own blows.

However the inverse is not true, your AP doesn't have to be as high as your durability.
 
I just realized after going through One Piece for a bit and Zoro uses Asura again after Enies Lobby in the Saoboady Arc in Chapter 510 against Pacifista. I don't know if this was discussed or not but Asura is a 3x multiplier. The Pacifista was able to tank a blow from this move, as well as Diable Jambe and Gear 3rd which show be around the same level as Asura given Enies Lobby though Gear 3rd is stronger than Gear 2nd.

343.43 x 3= 1030.29 Kilotons or 1.03 Megatons (Small City level, practically baseline)

So, wouldn't this change Monster Trio to 'High 7-C, Low 7-B with Asura/Gear 2nd/Diable Jambe) and the other supernovas would scale to this as well. The Pacifista I feel would be a plain 'Low 7-B'
 
> The Pacifista was able to tank a blow from this move, as well as Diable Jambe and Gear 3rd which show be around the same level as Asura given Enies Lobby though Gear 3rd is stronger than Gear 2nd.

The Pacifista didn't give any indications of really tanking the move. It looks like it was cut open and then destroyed when Luffy's Gear 3rd Rifle hit it on the next page.

I doubt that all of Zoro's regular attacks are as strong as the Ursa Shock from Kuma which was enough to practically defeat everyone on Thriller Bark at once. His attacks are just in that general area, not exactly 343.43 Kilotons.
 
>I doubt

Sigh.

The Ursus Shock defeated everyone but Zoro, Sanji and Brook. None of them were in optimal conditions, coming from serious fights during the whole night and after taking way too many attacks from Oars who mind you was clearly stronger than any of them even without Moriah or his Zombie physiology.

Plus, they can hurt people who can hurt them the same way so not only their AP scales but scales even higher than that considering that an attack that strong wasn't able to defeat some of them while two of those three are part of the Monster Trio. The only reason why Luffy didn't 'tanked it' was because he already passed out after pushing his body way over his limits.
 
Damage3245 said:
However the inverse is not true, your AP doesn't have to be as high as your durability.
Click to expand...
Well if you're able to harm characters that are supposed to be just as physically tough as you, then your AP must be as high as your durability.

Just like Calaca stated right above, due of the fact that many characters in the verse are capable to hurt people who can hurt them the same way, it meant that in general their Durability (at least in the majority of cases) should logically scale their Attack Potency/Striking Strength and viceversa.
 
Anyway, about considering 6-C an outlier, it still too soon to declare such thing.

We still have to evaluation two other potential feats that could help keep the current tier (Ace heat up Drum, Aokiji freezes an ocean), also even if there aren't that many 6-C feats it doesn't automatically means the few legitimate ones are outliers, other verses before were able to keep their tiers while having just one or two valid feats, i don't see reason for OP to be judge this severely.

And in term of consistently, like i say i don't think 6-C can be considered an outlier just because the series doesn't drop Island level feats each chapter, also remember most 6-C feats had be performed by high tiers of the series, so again currently the 6-C feats seen to be enough legitimate to be kept.
 
Stefano4444 said:
Well if you're able to harm characters that are supposed to be just as physically tough as you, then your AP must be as high as your durability.

Just like Calaca stated right above, due of the fact that many characters in the verse are capable to hurt people who can hurt them the same way, it meant that in general their Durability (at least in the majority of cases) should logically scale their Attack Potency/Striking Strength and viceversa.
Click to expand...
Of course, but that's a different thing altogether.

If you harm someone that has their own durability rating, then you're not scaling from your own durability rating.

> (Ace heat up Drum, Aokiji freezes an ocean)

The first one shouldn't be used in my opinion because there is no way of verifying that the feat happened as calced.

The second one has been evaluated by one calc group member so far. But even the highest of the High Ends is Mountain level+.
 
I don't get why the likes of Zoro scale to Ursus Shock anyway. It was an omnidrectional blast wave that spread all over the island, and Zoro tanked only a tiny fraction of it.

Not to mention the fact that Kuma >>>> the likes of preskip Zoro and Luffy.
 
Torch does have a fair point.

If every individual was hit with 343 kilotons each, the total energy of the blast would be way higher than the result of the calc.
 
Frankyvapor
Post Time Skip Franky seems to have a vaporization feat here, shown by the smoke and some melted material in the door he busted. I don't think this would be above Low 7-B but could be used as a supporting feat.
 
It's funny that the same door could not be kicked open by base Sanji.
 
Damage3245 said:
Cin, before we actually address the meteors, you would agree that generally AP does not automatically scale to durability, right?
Click to expand...
That would not really apply here if we are scaling the threads (unless you're discussing something else in regards to scaling).


1) The threads withstood and sliced all the meteorites without any implication of damage

  • At least the thread Durability scales to the current fraction (or fully... or a different value depending on if we want to scale all of the meteorites, or just the largest one). AP probably doesn't scale, at least fully, but they were capable of overpowering and slicing the meteorite upon impact, so they could scale to the fraction of the surface touched (which is >24% iirc)
2) Doflamingo scales to what his Bird-Cage is capable of, considering he made it with no prep or effort on his part, and he shouldn't be using less durable threads in combat due to the lack of sense that would make.

3) Not sure about the scaling here for Gear 2nd/3rd Luffy. He did manage to break free of Doflamingo's binding of his hands off-panel, but we don't know how much effort it took, and if he used Haki or not. All that is known is that he finished the Doffy Black Knight off with a jet gatling.

  • Bound Man Luffy obviously > Doflamingo in AP as agreed upon, and made abundantly clear.
    • If it is REALLY necessary, backwards scaling for Gear 3rd/2nd Luffy according to Doflamingo's "3x stronger" statement would make Luffy "At least" what 1/3 of Gear 4th's rating would be.
Also, regarding Franky busting the door, again, there's the possibility that the Pacifista and Kizaru beams vaporize, hence why Franky easily destroyed it, and Sanji couldnt... Or Franky's Radical Beam is significantly higher than his standard AP.

Likely the latter.
 
> That would not really apply here if we are scaling the threads (unless you're discussing something else in regards to scaling).

My point is that you can calculate the durability of the strings making the Birdcage; but that would not tell you what the AP of the Birdcage is (and therefore what the AP of Doflamingo is). Not directly at least.

I disagree with scaling the Bird-Cage directly to the Black Knight, it is not consistent no matter how you spin it. (We have gone over this point numerous times in the past too)
 
@Damage - I did not say anything about the Black Knight scaling. I merely pointed out that Doflamingo himself can create it from the palm of his hand or from his clone.

And if anything, Black Knight's durability and AP are radically different anyways, but it at most scales to Law and Base/2nd Gear Luffy in AP.
 
Sorry Cin. You did mention Gear 2 Luffy defeating the Black Knight so thought that is what you were referring to.
 
@Damage - Even if I were to argue that the Black Knight is equal to Law/Luffy in AP, how should we handle Durability?

Honestly I think it should just be listed as having "Unknown" durability as it has been easily damaged or destroyed by characters far weaker than Doflamingo and even the BK itself (Kyros and... ... those 2 brothers), but it is hard to kill as dismembering it or decapitating it wont stop its functions. Limitless stamina, too, as its motions solely rely on if it can even move, and if Doflamingo is still actively using the ability.
 
Unknown would probably be best.

Also, we're getting nearer to the limits of this thread. I'll make a new thread later today with a list of possible topics for us to cover.
 
@Damage - I think it is time to make a new thread regarding the topics recently brought up here, and to note what has already been decided upon in the new OP.
 
Agreed - I'll post the new thread soon.

Regarding what has already been decided on, I'm not sure of the best way to summarize that though.
 
@Damage - Possibly a list of things such as:

Decided topics Place them in list format here

Under discussio Place items here (Mostly the Doflamingo and Meteorite stuff)

Other topics Other things that were either put to the side or unconcluded due to other topics.

Tbh, I don't know everything that's been discussed in these 6 threads. I didn't start participating until much later.
 
I'm gonna update the some profiles based on Nami's Multi-City Block calc.

EDIT: Those that should be affected it are Nami, Usopp, Chopper and the lower end priests like Satori and Gedatsu I believe
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

HakutoRei000
WEAKEST CHARACTER FOR EVERY TIER FIGHT EACH OTHER.
Replies
1
Views
873
HakutoRei000
HakutoRei000
Flashlight237
Change in Tornado AP
Replies
30
Views
4K
Antvasima
Antvasima
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson
  • Locked
Jujutsu Kaisen Honored Ones Upgrade
2 3 4
Replies
133
Views
12K
Emirp sumitpo
Emirp sumitpo
Ednaxel2
Smash Bros, VS Battle's Tier list
Replies
23
Views
3K
Ednaxel2
Ednaxel2
DemiiPowa
  • Locked
Most POWERFUL character of EACH TIER
2
Replies
53
Views
4K
Colonel_Krukov
Colonel_Krukov
Back
Top