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Newer SU continuation revision

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Am just gonna ask again if it was missed.

Post the threads in question that discuss the validity of the water tower feat, even throw in a clip or video of the feat as well if it's not included thread.

If Keep thinks it's legit from those, I wager they at least merit a look.

Also, honest to God, drop the aptitude Weekly. It's getting tiring how much you are going to the personal just because people have problems with the scaling and feat results of a verse you like. It really slows things down and doesn't endear anyone to this.
 
Please don't assume anyone that disagrees with you about a series must atomically hate the series and/or have a grudge against you p much
 
I also found this scan and this scan from the SU Harmony comic series, it shows Garnet and Amehyst being able to damage the huge Harmony Core monster after it defused Sugilite.
 
Previous Points

Mass-Energy:

Lack of supporting feats
Doesn't meet Kaltias' requirements

Doesn't make sense for lower tiered characters like Pertidot w/out equipment and the pebbles

IMO M-E shouldn't be used. It doesn't matter how engrained it is in the show, which I doubt, if the results and applications don't make sense.
~ Dargoo Faust​


I think that in general M-E feats should be used when one of these conditions is met:
1) The energy is released in an explosive fashion and someone tanks it

2) It's made clear that it's intended as a feat of raw power (Take Raven from RWBY making a storm as an example, just with mass energy instead)

3) The energy is actually used to attacks someone (Example, I turn a rock into energy and fire it at someone else)

Idk SU so I can't help much with this specific thread, but these are my 2 cents regarding M-E feats
~ Kaltias​


M-E when used offensively is AP. That's a real thing. Using it to shapeshift and when so inconsistent with other values is not because they literally aren't using it to attack anything, just to be bigger.
~ Mr. Bambu​


Counter points:
  • Several gems that can reform or shapeshift are not necessary strong, examples are Peridot, a young Steven and several corrupted gems.
    * The AP is not necessary determinated by the size, gems has been show to be stronger than gems considerable bigger.
    * Peridot or the off-color being High 7-A, 6-C or higher is an outlier.
~ Antoniofer​


Tier 6 Feats (Discounting Lapis's Water Tower)

  • Gems defeat a living island: Happened off-screens and we don't know how, plus it took all three of them, plus we don't know how powerful the island even is, since "tectonic emergency" lacks context.
    * Rubies get hit by the Roaming Eye: 6 Gigatons is only the full kinetic energy generated by the ship, you need to take into effect the AoE that hit the Rubies, which reduces the feat to only 200 Megatons.
    * Sardonyx's hammer: Nothing wrong with this one, but it only scales to other fusions and doesn't affect the base Gems.
    * Durability of the Mini-Clusters that attacked the Drill: This was brought up in the the first thread and Antoniofer said it can't be used because it uses an uncommon method and questionable physics.
    * Gem Warship crashing to Earth: The calc is apparently outdated, and it was recalculated to be High 7-A.
    * Garnet swims in the core of the sun: Never happened in the actual show, and the calc is apparently wrong.
    * Satellite from the comics: The explosion never happened, it could have just been a gravity beam instead of a laser, the beam being this big to begin with might have just been inconsistent art from the comic, since it was stated that the tractor only covered Beach City, plus it doesn't scale to anybody.
 
Also, Damage found a problem with the Sardonyx calc after I made this summary:

The Sardonyx calc is flawed.
It's clearly not the impact from her hammer that sends them flying out the door, it's the decompression from the atmosphere being sucked out.

We see the Ruby's for a second after they unfuse and then they start getting dragged out - and one of them grabs Steven.

If you think it doesn't mathemtically make sense for only decompression to send them into space from the Moon... well, it is a cartoon show.
~ Damage3245​
 
To summarize the current debate;

  • Weekly argues that every gem should backscale from the Lapis water tower feat because they are capable of breaking Steven's bubble, which protected him from it being collapsed.
    • He also agrees the calc shoul be revised with AoE in mind given counterpoints.
  • I argue that the feat isn't combat applicable and possibly Environmental Destruction. We never see Lapis use that quantity of water to ever attack someone, and she hardly uses any of it to make the Gem Clones that fight Garnet and Co. Therefore the scaling should only be based on what Steven survived.
    • I agree an AoE revision for Steven's dura would help.
 
I'd also like to mention the entire tower didn't collapse on Steven. He was on the top of it when it fell apart and I don't think any sizeable portions of it hit him.

The gems and co. at the bottom yeeted out before large portions of water landed on them too.
 
I think scaling in Steven Universe is pretty bad if a comic did that.

If Garnet and Amethyse did something Sugilite couldn't do or had trouble doing that's PIS.
 
Actually, looking at it it's likely that he probably got hit by most of the water. In the scene whre the water starts hitting, he's off to the side of Greg's van, Greg's, upturned, van. But when, they arrive back at Beach City, he's on top of the van with the bubble. That means that the van would've needed to get upturned by the water before they got on top of it, so it's likely he got hit by most of the water falling down.
 
Things that need to be calced:

The AoE from the ocean falling on Stevens bubble from space

Sapphires blizzard
 
We calc a lowball of how much water would have hit the bubble and AoE it, in that case.
 
And now the main problem with these shenanigans has reared it's ugly head again, nobody seems willing to do the calcs we need.
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Also the cloud splitting 'gravity beam' feat
Click to expand...
I don't think the feat is applicable due to the lack of a timeframe and other reasons the clouds could be in that formation.

Since we've already had this debate several times, I'll just say I disagree with the feat and calc members can look at my previous comments to judge it.
 
Bambu was rather willing to help when he was first called with the Sun Bathing Feat and only didn't go for it because after hearing the reasoning, it didn't seem like it could really be used.

But the water pillar is different so, could contact him.
 
Even if you want to argue that the clouds parted because of gravity that would still be a ke feat, and from the flashback of the beam being used back when the Gems first came to earth as scouts there were holes in the clouds where the beams went through them
 
WeeklyBattles said:
Even if you want to argue that the clouds parted because of gravity that would still be a ke feat, and from the flashback of the beam being used back when the Gems first came to earth as scouts there were holes in the clouds where the beams went through them
Click to expand...
I mean, I agree. If we saw the clouds parting and had a timeframe for it, I'd be fine with that.

But we don't know if the clouds just moved around them like that naturally because the feild was there to begin with, we would need a time frame to calc the feat.
 
The clouds were parted as soon as the Gems were on the planet collecting resources. Saying the clouds were instantly parted by the beam is far from unbelievable
 
We only see a flashback esque glimpse of them being used, not when they were first deployed. We don't know how long the other ones were there for.
 
And? How does that mean we cant use a safe lowball assumed timeframe? And its stated that the other ones were there since the start of the colonization as a means of scouting the planet for resources. Plus the amount of time the others were there doesnt matter, what matters is how long the beam in question was there, which we already know is 6000ish years as it was there since before the rebellion.
 
Because clouds move on their own and it could have just been obstructing whatever clouds were in the sky as they moved across.
 
Except its a perfect circle. Clouds dont part in perfect circles like that if theyre parted naturally
 
If they part around a perfectly cylindrical, semi-transparent object that effects gravity, yes.
 
Yes but even assuming its gravity it would still have caused the clouds to part in the first place which is a KE feat
 
That's assuming there was clouds there when it first activated, which we don't see.
 
Except we do see it in th scans of the flashback. Youre really making a LOT of assumptions here my guy...
 
I'm making the least assumption; I'm not assuming the beam does anything but obstruct the clouds.

I wouldn't want to assume it instantly bores holes through massive clouds when we never see the feat in question.
 
Occam's razor dictates that the simplest answer is the correct one. The simplest answer is the beam bore a hole through the cloud. No assumption that the clouds came along after the beams had been there for an extensive amount of time and formed around them. No assumption that the beams were in the clouds and had to be there for an extensive period of time for holes to form. Youre purposely making this immensely more complicated for no reason whatsoever.
 
That's an incorrect application of Ockham's razor.

I find it far more simple for the beam to obstruct the clouds rather than move massive amounts of air instantly. It's not complicated, we know clouds move on their own and if something was obstructing it we know that the cloud would move around it.

What we do not know is if it directly moved clouds. What we do not know is how long it took to do this. We know that it is there and clouds are formed around it.

If anything you are making more assumptions. I don't need to make assumptions on how clouds naturally move as we already know that to be true. It takes a stack of increasingly complex assumptions to come to the conclusion you did.

So yeah. If we want to apply Ockham's razor here we'd be docking off "massive laser bores hole through cloud" almost immediately.
 
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