Why Living Tribunal is 1A? He is 16D and he loses so much, that i cant understand, why you added 1A.
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Why Living Tribunal is 1A?
- Thread starter Den23412342421431
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Living Tribunal being merely 16-D has been debunked a long time ago, and honestly it amazes me that you still believe in it.
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IIRC, one of the reasons is that Eternity and Infinity embody the Space TIme of Marvel's High-1B Omniverse, since those two are just part of LT, then LT transcends that thereby and is 1-A for containing and transcending High-1B embodiments. Eerily, LT is 1-A for roughly for some of the similar descriptions that Beyonder is likely 1-A.
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Eternity and Infinity are also not just embodiements of High 1-B totalities, but are the very concepts of time and space
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I never denied that, though. But Reed and Roma have also considered them as the concepts of space and time
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They embody the very concept of space and time. Multiverse in this context is all of creation, everything. Outside of it is nothing but the boundless void. This should've been obvious by now
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If that was ever the case, it is no longer so. Eternity is all of existence, to the farthest edges of time and space. Also other 'Multiverses' are encompassed within Eternity as well as seen in recent comics
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Marvel has used 'Omniverse' most of the times to refer to all of existence within Marvel. I don't think the meta fiction crossover stuff is even meant to be taken seriously, especially when Eternity is now explicitly shown to embody all of existence or the totality
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Ant for the many times the Handbook doesn't even matter. The Omniverse has been all of creation multiple times in the comics.
Can you stop acting that the Omniverse means all fictional verses while the comics never states it to be like that.
Omniverse in marvel is at best just high 1-B not all fictional verses.
Can you stop acting that the Omniverse means all fictional verses while the comics never states it to be like that.
Omniverse in marvel is at best just high 1-B not all fictional verses.
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It is just treated as all existence in marvel. If it's 2-A or high 1-B that depends on writer. but it's also treated as all existence as Shivanish states.
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I agree that sometimes it is, and other times it is stated to be all multiverses or all of fiction and reality combined. I think that the latter was Mark Gruenwald's original definition as well, when he came up with the word, but am not sure.
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Ok I dislike it when you keep correcting me about the term while I do know I'm not talking about all fiction and reality
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Someone wrote an interesting paragraph on Comicvine where the so called "Metafictional" definition of the Omniverse in the Handbook has in fact been misunderstood to be metafictional.
Omniverse was supposed to mean that it contains all possibility. Even your fictional imagination from comic books and etc. while not real in your universe, what is fictional to you in your own world will be real in another world.
Infinite Universes should cover your own imagination, even the fictional non-existing ones should be real somewhere in the Omniverse.
It's like the Box philosophy. You think of a thought, it's in the Omniverse. Even if you don't think it, it's still in the Omniverse.
Because to the Omniverse, everything that cannot happen will happen. That's why it contains all of fiction, it doesn't mean it metafictionally.
That's why it contains 'all of fiction' because it covers your imagination being real somewhere anyway. The handbook isn't really claiming DC, Dragonball or etc.
The Omniverse was never metafictional. Even by the Guide book definition, it's still just High-1B regardless of any definition. It's only misunderstood to be metafictional. Marvel almost never does a Metafictional cosmology, even by the people who wrote that guide book. That's more DCs schtick.
Omniverse was supposed to mean that it contains all possibility. Even your fictional imagination from comic books and etc. while not real in your universe, what is fictional to you in your own world will be real in another world.
Infinite Universes should cover your own imagination, even the fictional non-existing ones should be real somewhere in the Omniverse.
It's like the Box philosophy. You think of a thought, it's in the Omniverse. Even if you don't think it, it's still in the Omniverse.
Because to the Omniverse, everything that cannot happen will happen. That's why it contains all of fiction, it doesn't mean it metafictionally.
That's why it contains 'all of fiction' because it covers your imagination being real somewhere anyway. The handbook isn't really claiming DC, Dragonball or etc.
The Omniverse was never metafictional. Even by the Guide book definition, it's still just High-1B regardless of any definition. It's only misunderstood to be metafictional. Marvel almost never does a Metafictional cosmology, even by the people who wrote that guide book. That's more DCs schtick.
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perhaps we should stop getting extremely angry @Tetromino and just answer the guy's question if it isn't already answered
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Pretty sure it already has.
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Has it ever been stated outright that the metafictional interpretation of omniverse was never intentional, or is it just fan speculation?
Anyway, Marvel has been going overboard with metafiction in recent years, in everything from Deadpool, Gwenpool, to The One Above All.
Anyway, Marvel has been going overboard with metafiction in recent years, in everything from Deadpool, Gwenpool, to The One Above All.
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Whenever Marvel does metafictional, they never tried to incurse on other fictions. Grant Morrison and Stephen King both have done that. Marvel? Not really.
In fact, there was a thesis by philosopher physicists (I don't remember their name) when they were describing the Many Worlds Interpretation theory where they basically say that fiction exists in the Multiverse due to the infinite configurations. And they said the fictional things you imagine exists in a parallel universe because of the unlimited awe possibilities of the Multiverse. But nobody ever said those physicists were being Metafictional.
I believe that this is the source where the Hand book's definition of the Omniverse containing all of fiction came from as they both match. It only means that anything is possible in the Omniverse, even the fictional things is covered. Like the Box philosophy.
But Marvel never ever outright claimed other fictions. That's not what they're saying. It's all a big misunderstanding.
Marvel is just saying that the Multiverse contains fiction as one of its possibilities. They're just saying that the Omniverse contains so many possibilities, it contains anything you imagine and what you think is fictional.
In fact, there was a thesis by philosopher physicists (I don't remember their name) when they were describing the Many Worlds Interpretation theory where they basically say that fiction exists in the Multiverse due to the infinite configurations. And they said the fictional things you imagine exists in a parallel universe because of the unlimited awe possibilities of the Multiverse. But nobody ever said those physicists were being Metafictional.
I believe that this is the source where the Hand book's definition of the Omniverse containing all of fiction came from as they both match. It only means that anything is possible in the Omniverse, even the fictional things is covered. Like the Box philosophy.
But Marvel never ever outright claimed other fictions. That's not what they're saying. It's all a big misunderstanding.
Marvel is just saying that the Multiverse contains fiction as one of its possibilities. They're just saying that the Omniverse contains so many possibilities, it contains anything you imagine and what you think is fictional.
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Nether is right. There is one comic that can confirms that. they basically stated the omniverse is every direction of possibilties
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and Ultimates can confirms this too.
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@Tetro
I might even go as far as saying that for example. I might be wanking the following multiverses of these fictions.
But I think Batman or Spiderman or even Superman should exist in some form in the Multiverses of Umineko or Warhammer because those Higher DImensional Multiverses contain so many Quantum variables that it's impossible that High-1B Multiverses in several fictions outside of DC do not have a Batman like character in them in one of its realities.
That's the same thing. I believe that Masadaverse (IIRC) had a similar conception about any comic book you read, or any religion regardless or novel existing in the Multiverse that someone mentioned in some thread. But I don't recall anyone saying that Masadaverse was metafictional.
We're just gonna have to accept that some fictions might contain literally the same character of each other despite copyright allegations.
Because the nature of Multiverses logically should literally break Copyright rules. And some fictions are merely self aware of that nature.
Omniverse just means it contains so many confiugrations that fiction is included in it. Oh, the Marvel Omniverse is still High-1B, but there's a reason why that so called misunderstood metafictional definition has never been repeated. It's just a statement of Marvel's opinion of what the Multiverse can possibly contain and it doesn't need to repeat itself.
I might even go as far as saying that for example. I might be wanking the following multiverses of these fictions.
But I think Batman or Spiderman or even Superman should exist in some form in the Multiverses of Umineko or Warhammer because those Higher DImensional Multiverses contain so many Quantum variables that it's impossible that High-1B Multiverses in several fictions outside of DC do not have a Batman like character in them in one of its realities.
That's the same thing. I believe that Masadaverse (IIRC) had a similar conception about any comic book you read, or any religion regardless or novel existing in the Multiverse that someone mentioned in some thread. But I don't recall anyone saying that Masadaverse was metafictional.
We're just gonna have to accept that some fictions might contain literally the same character of each other despite copyright allegations.
Because the nature of Multiverses logically should literally break Copyright rules. And some fictions are merely self aware of that nature.
Omniverse just means it contains so many confiugrations that fiction is included in it. Oh, the Marvel Omniverse is still High-1B, but there's a reason why that so called misunderstood metafictional definition has never been repeated. It's just a statement of Marvel's opinion of what the Multiverse can possibly contain and it doesn't need to repeat itself.
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Marvel never tried to claim they owned DC however for example.
The idea that the Omniverse contains fiction because of infinite possibilities, that even fiction is possible and contained in the Omniverse exists in philosopher definition of the Omniverse as well.
https://books.google.com.ph/books?i...AEIQTAE#v=onepage&q=omniverse fiction&f=false
The idea that the Omniverse contains fiction because of infinite possibilities, that even fiction is possible and contained in the Omniverse exists in philosopher definition of the Omniverse as well.
https://books.google.com.ph/books?i...AEIQTAE#v=onepage&q=omniverse fiction&f=false
Bobsican
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Why is this still there?:
"The Living Tribunal, while displayed as above the other Abstracts, being a sole entity across the whole multiverse, and capable of ending entire realities, did not demonstrate beyond-dimensional stature, nor his current level of importance until the late 1980s. As such, we cannot scale characters from the time before this to his later feats."
- A note in his profile.
There´s still that Discussion Rule:
"Do not attempt to upgrade The Living Tribunal to 1-A. As the sum totality of the abstract entities within the Marvel multiverse it is explicitly a creature constructed of space and time, and as such cannot exceed High 1-B per definition. Any handbook comparisons with Oblivio are considered as unreliable and ill-considered, as Oblivion explicitly vastly transcends such limitations."
Unless I´m missing something, those should be removed if he stays 1-A, which is still somewhat surprising to me.
"The Living Tribunal, while displayed as above the other Abstracts, being a sole entity across the whole multiverse, and capable of ending entire realities, did not demonstrate beyond-dimensional stature, nor his current level of importance until the late 1980s. As such, we cannot scale characters from the time before this to his later feats."
- A note in his profile.
There´s still that Discussion Rule:
"Do not attempt to upgrade The Living Tribunal to 1-A. As the sum totality of the abstract entities within the Marvel multiverse it is explicitly a creature constructed of space and time, and as such cannot exceed High 1-B per definition. Any handbook comparisons with Oblivio are considered as unreliable and ill-considered, as Oblivion explicitly vastly transcends such limitations."
Unless I´m missing something, those should be removed if he stays 1-A, which is still somewhat surprising to me.
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The note should stay, as it is an explanation for why we cannot scale the Beyonder (Pre-Retcon) to him.
I will remove the discussion rule.
I will remove the discussion rule.
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since the LT is 1A now would him being above oblivion be valid now?
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No Oblivion isn't bound to existence, which LT is, Oblivion is above himSetsuna tenma said:
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Logically Oblivion should be above him. The Ultimates storyline with The First Firmament also stated that the new Living Tribunal would die with Multi-Eternity, whereas Oblivion would not, but I suppose that is less relevant for the old Tribunal.
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No he still isn't Oblivion transcend everything in existence including concepts such as TLT
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what do you mean?
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