• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Jojo infinite speed downgrades.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Firephoenixearl

Firephoenixearl

Messages
20,509
Reaction score
1,590
Ok so if im not mistaken there are 2 excuses for giving Jojo characters infinite speed stats.

1. The users of MiH

and 2. GER who resisted Diavolo and HA D scaling from it.

Made In Haven: Imma get the MiH part out of the way first since it's the easiest one to understand. MiH is not infinity, it cannot reach infinity, it can reach "countably infinite numbers". It can reach any number no matter how big, it cannot reach infinity itself. He accelerates to any number, which means he can reach any countably infinite number though he can't fight anyone who has infinite speed, because he cannot reach infinity (at least i don't think he has any feat of reaching infinity itself).

Now GER. GER could move when Diavolo removed time from the universe...that is just resistance. Diavolo's time removal is literally just another version of time stop, it's just hax, which means it can be resisted. Our rules say that hax can be countered by resistance. Erasing time is just hax. Resisting having your time erased is just common resistance. You don't get your time erased therefore you still have the ability to apply the speed formula (V=S/t) since your time is still there, your time is passing by normaly, time is still flowing for you. Diavolo's hax cannot be compared to true voids since you cannot resist true voids, while you can resist hax. Kind of like you can resist oxygen hax, but that doesn't mean you can resist space. Oxygen hax forcibly manipulate oxygen that is there, space well, just has none, it does nothing, it changes nothing, you either lack the need to breathe or you die while with oxygen manip, you can just resist it and be fine without lacking the need to breathe. To prove my point further here is Diavolo saying "i erase time from everyone except myself" which goes to prove that if someone resisted having his "own time" erased then he can move freely in the time erasure (so now not only did i prove this by logical assumptions and physics, but now by in verse statements and examples which proves that the author of jojo also says that "if your time isn't erased then you can freely move" which means GER resisting time erasure is easily the solution to him no selling diavolo's time hax).

Long story short Diavolo's time hax cannot be compared to true voids.

Welp that's all i had. Now time for the chaos to begin, also i'd like people to argue the more mathematical and physics side of this.
 
I feel like I'm gonna get flak for this, but I kinda agree. MiH seems like the "infinitely ascending" kind of deal that we don't grant High 3-A, 2-A or High 1-B to. If he just accelerates forever, he'll never reach infinity.

And for GER, it seems like our only arguments for it being Infinite instead of just resisting the skip is due to some hyperbolic statements like how it won't let his opponent act, which is literally just its ability.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
I feel like I'm gonna get flak for this, but I kinda agree. MiH seems like the "infinitely ascending" kind of deal that we don't grant High 3-A, 2-A or High 1-B to. If he just accelerates forever, he'll never reach infinity.
And for GER, it seems like our only arguments for it being Infinite instead of just resisting the skip is due to some hyperbolic statements like how it won't let his opponent act, which is literally just its ability.
Click to expand...
So you agree with both?

Also that hyperbolic statement is true. Since he can reset anything to 0, you can never really do anything against him, technically speaking, that's not due to speed doe, that's due to him reseting whatever you may do.
 
Yobobojojo said:
It's not skip though, it's actually the time itself being erased from existence. Even if it was ignoring it, it would have to move in a total void.
Click to expand...
Statement from Diavolo himself says "i erase all time except for myself" which means he can move because he still has time. GER resists having his time erased and therefore can move.
 
Except GER can't resist having the time of the area he's in removed. In order to move or even enter there, he'd have to have infinite speed.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Except GER can't resist having the time of the area he's in removed. In order to move or even enter there, he'd have to have infinite speed.
Click to expand...
No.

GER resists having his "own" time removed.

Diavolo does the same. He erases the time of everything "except for himself" and he can therefore move. He stated that himself, so since he has time (even though nothing else has) then he can move. The same can be said for GER.
 
So you're argument is that there is a thin peel of time surrounding GER, and that's why he can move?
 
Yobobojojo said:
So you're argument is that there is a thin peel of time surrounding GER, and that's why he can move?
Click to expand...
No. GER still has time. Having time grants you the ability to move in timeless places. As long as you yourself still have time. If you have 3 seconds of time in a place without time, you can move for 3 seconds before stopping because you have that much time. It has nothing to do with the surroundings, also it's a done deal since it's stated by Diavolo himself, check OP for the scan.
 
There isn't anything that implies that to any degree though, at least not that it's the way GER does it. We don't assume that Time Stop movement is resistance simply because it doesn't freeze the users time, but rather based on consistency
 
Yobobojojo said:
There isn't anything that implies that to any degree though, at least not that it's the way GER does it. We don't assume that Time Stop movement is resistance simply because it doesn't freeze the users time, but rather based on consistency
Click to expand...
LOL! And we assume anything resisting time stop is infinite speed? Sureee. We assume anything is resistance UNLESS it's proven to be infinite speed.

GER just resisted the time erasure "as i said he did, and as i showed it to be a valid point by in verse scans", now you have to prove that it's something "MORE" than resistance. You have the positive argument of going from resistance to infinite speed, you have to prove it's infinite speed, untill you can, the smallest is taken as fact, which means it stops at resistance.
 
That's not what I said and you know it. I said we normally don't give out infinite speed because it contradicts other showing, and that's the usual reason, and our standards on resistance are unaffected on how the user acts in said time.
 
Yobobojojo said:
That's not what I said and you know it. I said we normally don't give out infinite speed because it contradicts other showing, and that's the usual reason, and our standards on resistance are unaffected on how the user acts in said time.
Click to expand...
Dude i just proved that GER is resistant to time erasure (on himself), now you have to have an argument to get that resistance up to "infinte speed".

Infinite speed is above "resistance to time erasure" you need to have an argument to say it's infinite speed rather than "resistance". Our rules say that the lesser is taken as true, since in this case resistance is the lesser, that is taken as true unless you have some reason/argument to say that it is not.
 
time erasure isn't really something you resist
 
That would be akin to saying that I resist my couch being set on fire
 
I'm explaining to you what I said, and you're ignoring it to try and Discredit what I said. My point was that your argument was inherently fallacious and doesn't place the positive on me, since it's contradicted by our standards.
 
Wokistan said:
time erasure isn't really something you resist
Click to expand...
Yes it is actually. Resist having your time erased is pretty easy. You erase time from the universe, though you cannot "remove 3 seconds from my time". As long as something is affecting you it is possible to be resisted.

And as Diavolo stated "he removes seconds from "everyone"" so yeah he resists.
 
Wokistan said:
That would be akin to saying that I resist my couch being set on fire
Click to expand...
No you resist you being set on fire. Your couch can be on fire, if you don't get set on fire, you are still fine.
 
So Diabolo resists his own ability? Users have clearly shown they are unaffected by their stands, regardless of whether the abilities are beneficial, like in Josuke's case. That's just him explains the normal "my power affects everyone around me but not me" trope.
 
Yobobojojo said:
I'm explaining to you what I said, and you're ignoring it to try and Discredit what I said. My point was that your argument was inherently fallacious and doesn't place the positive on me, since it's contradicted by our standards.
Click to expand...
Pls do debunk my argument there.

Im only asking 1 thing. Why is this infinite speed and not resistance? Prove this.
 
No you resist you being set on fire. Your couch can be on fire, if you don't get set on fire, you are still fine.

But the thing is, the analogy here means that you'd still be moving through fire, regardless of whether or not it affected you.
 
Pls do debunk my argument there.

Im only asking 1 thing. Why is this infinite speed and not resistance? Prove this.

I explained why the burden of proof is on you. If you think it isn't, explain why.
 
Yobobojojo said:
So Diabolo resists his own ability? Users have clearly shown they are unaffected by their stands, regardless of whether the abilities are beneficial, like in Josuke's case. That's just him explains the normal "my power affects everyone around me but not me" trope.
Click to expand...
Yes. He says "i erase everyone's time but my time". Not that he resists. He says he can move if time doesn't exist even as long as HIS TIME IS OK. That's literally what he says.

Now what i said is. GER resists having his own time erased. And therefore like diavolo he can move as long as HIS TIME IS OK.

Same thing, 1 is "i don't want to erase my time" and the other is "You can't erase my time".
 
Except it's not so much that he's literally not erasing his time, but rather unusual stand mechanics.
 
Yobobojojo said:
I explained why the burden of proof is on you. If you think it isn't, explain why.
Click to expand...
I gave my proof for why it can be a lesser thing. There needs to be proof for "why it is a greater thing". Might aswell give anyone who resisted time stop infinite speed then since just resisting = infintie.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Except it's not so much that he's literally not erasing his time, but rather unusual stand mechanics.
Click to expand...
He literally stated "i don't erase my own time".
 
Except one or the other isn't necessarily a greater thing. And I explained the reason is more consistency then anything.
 
Yobobojojo said:
Except one or the other isn't necessarily a greater thing. And I explained the reason is more consistency then anything.
Click to expand...
Again you have no reason to believe it's infinite speed, and not resistance. And yes infinite speed is a greater thing. Infinite speed = immunity to time stop. Resistance < Immunity.

I also have other reasons like them being stuck in other time stoping abilities etc.
 
Infinite Speed is not time stop immunity in any sense. And Josuke said his own stand can't affect him, so should we give him resistance to Matter Manipulation?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Enrico Pucci Immeasurable speed
Replies
10
Views
2K
Bastos
Bastos
DRW001
  • Locked
GER - Non-existent interaction and Pseudo NEP (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 1, 3 and 5) (staff votes pls)
2
Replies
64
Views
6K
DRW001
DRW001
Niece
  • Locked
Downgrade Infinite speed Pucci
Replies
22
Views
3K
Planck69
Planck69
Could Giorno have infinite stamina?
Replies
4
Views
1K
Clave444
FundamentalForce
  • Locked
Jojo's Bizarre Cosmology [Part 1/???]
Replies
39
Views
3K
Animus-sama
Animus-sama
Back
Top