-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Jojo infinite speed downgrades.
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
- Start date
- Status
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #83
Welp i guess everyone agrees with GER and HAD having inf speed removed.
- 1,610
- 97
I always knew that Bohemian_Rhapsody was the most strongest stand in Jojo.
@Firephoenixearl I dare you to make a blog explaining King Crimson
@Firephoenixearl I dare you to make a blog explaining King Crimson
- 4,256
- 658
Yeah, his file has said he has infinite speeds. This means he can of course accelerate as such.
I change my mind, dont remove MiH speed because it being infinite can be important in some matchups where an opponent can prevent the universal collapse but not his speed. Instead list it as varies and state that the highest end speed he can reach is infinite speeds.
I change my mind, dont remove MiH speed because it being infinite can be important in some matchups where an opponent can prevent the universal collapse but not his speed. Instead list it as varies and state that the highest end speed he can reach is infinite speeds.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #86
Well as i said his file "infinite speed" can be translated to "unlimited speed" which means he can accelerate as much as he wants.ProfessorLord said:
And it's not staying infinite, even if it doesn't change (from crt), it still needs to be worded as "can reach infinite" not "infinite" since it's not passive infinite, it's active.
- 4,256
- 658
I can post later but the original scan uses the infinity symbol. It doesn't say unlimited.
Bottom line is it can feasibly reach infinite speeds, regardless of how physics and logic works.
Bottom line is it can feasibly reach infinite speeds, regardless of how physics and logic works.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #88
That's what i mean. The infinity simbol is often used as a synonim to unlimited. There is no limit to the speed he can reach.ProfessorLord said:
Ever heard "unlimited power" which can almost literally translate to "infinite power". Unlimited and infinite trade their meanings quite a bit.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #90
Huh? My blog on all fiction (which was accepted by most) is purely based on science and logic doe.PaChi2 said:
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #92
Yeah it's just resisted. Ger is kind of a done deal. We'r focusing on MiH a bit now.PolarKid said:
- 1,610
- 97
How many people remember this MIH vs GER
- 4,256
- 658
Infinity (symbol: ∞) is a concept describing something without any bound or larger than any natural number.
In this case, Pucci's speed was being described as a value larger than any natural number. Not that he can reach an endlessly high value of natural numbers, but quite literally that he can breach the concept entirely in terms of speed.
So no, it's not describing "endless" speed.
In this case, Pucci's speed was being described as a value larger than any natural number. Not that he can reach an endlessly high value of natural numbers, but quite literally that he can breach the concept entirely in terms of speed.
So no, it's not describing "endless" speed.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #97
Ok then it still needs to change on his profile.
Not "infinite speed stat" but "can accelerate to infinity" since he doesn't always have infinite speed, he needs to accelerate to it via hax. If someone time stops him before he can accelerate it will work.
Not "infinite speed stat" but "can accelerate to infinity" since he doesn't always have infinite speed, he needs to accelerate to it via hax. If someone time stops him before he can accelerate it will work.
- 1,880
- 844
Im never thought I'd say this but im agree with Fire,you cannot reach infinite speed with time accel but you can only accel indefinetly.
And about GER you kinda gived him passive casuality hax with this downgrade so thanks,but now if you think about it Giorno fights are gonna be even more boring because he has a passive auto win buttom now.
And about GER you kinda gived him passive casuality hax with this downgrade so thanks,but now if you think about it Giorno fights are gonna be even more boring because he has a passive auto win buttom now.
- 16,606
- 1,791
Alright guys, let's get down to this. I'll deal with MiH later.
Diavolo erases time universally, which is true about any time stand. One thing to note is that it actually is not stated that GER didn't have its time erased, in fact, it is more likely that his time was erased but was able to move anyway. In fact, in that very sca, you can see the visual effect that happens when time is erased for you. That appearence of many selves is the visual appearence for how Diavolo, and even those that catch a glimps of erased time, view it. Here is another example of the many examples that come from one of his other fights. Here is one main thing, even if Diavolo maintained his own time while erasing. Also, don't take Diavolo's statements when it comes to King Crimson at face value, because that is how we ended up with the It Just Works fiasco. The ability will make negetive sense if you do. The same can be said for most time based abilities in JJBA if you do, like Diego's "this time is only my own" statement that make The World's ability sound more like time storage than time stop. Also Diavolo may be able to "move" in erased time, but that is more a biproduct of the ability and not some resistence feat.
Its actually better to think of it that he isn't "moving" in erased time at all, but more choosing what actions would have happened, since what is basically all moments of actions within erased time coexist temporarilty, but have no effect. You can literally see your future self, that exists at the same time as you, in the fall out of king crimson's time erasure. When GER sets Diavolo's time erasure to zero, for some reason, he falls under the effects of his own King Crimson (for some reason), with his selves at those various moments coexting. As we have previously established, GER was indeed under the effects of Erased time. He did, however manage to set it to 0 inspite of it. Thus, it would be infinite speed regardless.
Anyway, that was a bit ranty, let me summerise.
Diavolo erases time universally, which is true about any time stand. One thing to note is that it actually is not stated that GER didn't have its time erased, in fact, it is more likely that his time was erased but was able to move anyway. In fact, in that very sca, you can see the visual effect that happens when time is erased for you. That appearence of many selves is the visual appearence for how Diavolo, and even those that catch a glimps of erased time, view it. Here is another example of the many examples that come from one of his other fights. Here is one main thing, even if Diavolo maintained his own time while erasing. Also, don't take Diavolo's statements when it comes to King Crimson at face value, because that is how we ended up with the It Just Works fiasco. The ability will make negetive sense if you do. The same can be said for most time based abilities in JJBA if you do, like Diego's "this time is only my own" statement that make The World's ability sound more like time storage than time stop. Also Diavolo may be able to "move" in erased time, but that is more a biproduct of the ability and not some resistence feat.
Its actually better to think of it that he isn't "moving" in erased time at all, but more choosing what actions would have happened, since what is basically all moments of actions within erased time coexist temporarilty, but have no effect. You can literally see your future self, that exists at the same time as you, in the fall out of king crimson's time erasure. When GER sets Diavolo's time erasure to zero, for some reason, he falls under the effects of his own King Crimson (for some reason), with his selves at those various moments coexting. As we have previously established, GER was indeed under the effects of Erased time. He did, however manage to set it to 0 inspite of it. Thus, it would be infinite speed regardless.
Anyway, that was a bit ranty, let me summerise.
- King Crimson does, indeed, erase time universally. Him saying that he still had time was likely either not literal or just flowery language.
- Diavolo does not "move" in erased time in the literal sense
- However, even if the above is not true, and King Crimson individually erases time for everything in the entire universe. Then GER still had its time erased, the visual effect prove that.
- Thus, he still took actions while he was in a timeless void (even if it was or was not more personalized to be set to every objects and being in the universe), and would still qualify for infinite speed
- 16,606
- 1,791
You can resist having your time erased, but as is proven above, GER's time was erased, so that is no longer an option. You cannot resist not having time. This is not time stop, this is lacking time. You cannot resist lacking time any more than you can resist a timeless voidPaChi2 said:
- 20,729
- 3,679
????????Yobobojojo said:
People can resist void manipulation that is >>>>>>>>> time erasure of seconds.
@Iapitus
Firstly, King Crimson doesnt create a timelesd void. Secondly, you can resist any ability, its fiction. KC erases time? Fine, GER time's cant get erased.
- 16,606
- 1,791
first off, Whether it does or does not does not matter, that was my point. Either way still results in infinite speedPaChi2 said:
Second, I already address that above. It is possible to resist having one's time erased, but GER didn't. It has the visual effects that show its time was erased. Thus, it still has infinite speed
- 7,681
- 996
Wouldn't that mean GER resist time manip (time erasure in this case)? Like, we don't give someone who can moves within timestop Infinite speed rating.Yobobojojo said:
- 16,606
- 1,791
@Homu
Because this isn't normal time manip. He is literally erasing time, not stopping it or anything like that. You cannot resist not having time any more then you can resist a timeless void. You can, of course, resist having your time removed, but as has been clarified above, that's not what happened. GER's time was removed, but was able to remain active anyway, thus infinite speed.
Because this isn't normal time manip. He is literally erasing time, not stopping it or anything like that. You cannot resist not having time any more then you can resist a timeless void. You can, of course, resist having your time removed, but as has been clarified above, that's not what happened. GER's time was removed, but was able to remain active anyway, thus infinite speed.
- 6,899
- 4,307
GER didn't resist any time related stuff. He just ignored it and moved anyway.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #111
That's still resistance. Ignoring a skill is literally resisting it. You resist something = you literally dismiss what a skill is supposed to do.TacticalNuke002 said:
@lap
Hax =/= voids. Might aswell given Jiren infinite speed for breaking through hit's time stop. TImeless voids are a lot more complicated than simple erasing time (also stated by Diavolo that he erases everyone's time 1 by 1, so that makes it all the further from timeless voids). So the visual and whatever is not applicable, you can't know for sure what he meant. GER's speed is not infinite, we treat cases like that as resistance.
@Axl2333
Well not exactly. That woul just be resistance on GER's profile, not passive null to anything. The powers and resistances don't have anything to do with each-other. GER just has inate resistance to time erasure, kind of like how HA Dio has resistance to causality reset while having reality overwrite which are 2 abilities that have no connection to each-other. So no it's not passive GER, it's just resistance to time erasure.
- 16,606
- 1,791
You missed the point of what I said dude. It doesn't matter whether it was a void or not, because the result still comes out to infinite speed. It does not matter if he does the entire world or each thing individually, because as I explained above, it still comes to infinite speed. Voids are not necessarily the only way to get infinite speed feats anyway, even if they are the most common. Time stop is not the same as time erasure, false equivalence. They are very different things. The author using a visual effect to show erased time is very clear, also authorial intent is superseded by what is shown. You cannot resist not having time. You can resist having it removed, but you cannot resist not having time. GER's time was removed, so it cannot be resistence. Thus, infinite speed
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #113
No.
You cannot resist not having time. True which is why "true voids" cannot be resisted. You cannot resist being in a place where time doesn't exist. Such as how you can't resisit not having air in space, though you can resist having someone take the air out of your lungs when you are in earth. Diavolo just erases all the air that is in the universe, though GER's air is still in his lungs so he can live just fine, because Diavolo cannot bypass GER's resistance to this hax.
Time Erasure is "i erase your time in a place where there was time". You can resist any hax. And Iap we always treat resistance to this type of stuff as "resistance" and not just slap infinity speed on that. Any "character not being affected by hax" case is treated as resistance to said hax. All the more so when GER has "never" been shown to reach such speeds normally and is not even comparable to MiH in speed. His infinite speed lack consistency so it cannot be used. If he had multiple feats of showing infinite speed then he could keep his infinite speed stats but:
Due to inconsistencies and the fact that we always grant "resistance to x hax" whenever there is a case like this, his infinite stat is not applicable and it should just be used as "resistance to time erasure".
You cannot resist not having time. True which is why "true voids" cannot be resisted. You cannot resist being in a place where time doesn't exist. Such as how you can't resisit not having air in space, though you can resist having someone take the air out of your lungs when you are in earth. Diavolo just erases all the air that is in the universe, though GER's air is still in his lungs so he can live just fine, because Diavolo cannot bypass GER's resistance to this hax.
Time Erasure is "i erase your time in a place where there was time". You can resist any hax. And Iap we always treat resistance to this type of stuff as "resistance" and not just slap infinity speed on that. Any "character not being affected by hax" case is treated as resistance to said hax. All the more so when GER has "never" been shown to reach such speeds normally and is not even comparable to MiH in speed. His infinite speed lack consistency so it cannot be used. If he had multiple feats of showing infinite speed then he could keep his infinite speed stats but:
Due to inconsistencies and the fact that we always grant "resistance to x hax" whenever there is a case like this, his infinite stat is not applicable and it should just be used as "resistance to time erasure".
- 16,606
- 1,791
Exactly. Because you cannot resist not having time, and GER clearly showed the visual effects of erased time, it cannot be resistance. The only option is infinite speed.
You can resist having your time removed, but you cannot resist not having time. There is a difference. Also, there is no "we" here. You may decide that you prefer it resistance over speed, but there is no majority backing you. He has 1 speed feat, this one and this one only, so it is consistent by definition. Any comparison between MiH and GER is pure speculation, since they have never interacted in canon.
He has one feat, and no anti-feats. Thus, it is consistent. Again, you can resist having you time removed, but you cannot resist not having time. As the scans of the visual effects show, GER clearly had it's time removed yet moved anyway. Thus, it cannot be mere resistance, and must be infinite speed
You can resist having your time removed, but you cannot resist not having time. There is a difference. Also, there is no "we" here. You may decide that you prefer it resistance over speed, but there is no majority backing you. He has 1 speed feat, this one and this one only, so it is consistent by definition. Any comparison between MiH and GER is pure speculation, since they have never interacted in canon.
He has one feat, and no anti-feats. Thus, it is consistent. Again, you can resist having you time removed, but you cannot resist not having time. As the scans of the visual effects show, GER clearly had it's time removed yet moved anyway. Thus, it cannot be mere resistance, and must be infinite speed
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #115
1. Visual Effect show nothing.
2. You have no proof for his time being erased, it was never stated, it was never shown.
3. If GER had infinite speed he would have used it. He has never even shown higher than usual speeds let alone infinite speeds.
4. By we i mean the wiki. The wiki's standards on resistances tell us to use resistance.
5. Diavolo "tried to ERASE GER'S TIME" which is an action that can be resisted just fine. That's all. The visuals of GER and Diavolo moving are the same aswell. Moving in that "time erasure" in general is described by those visuals. Visuals don't show "diavolo didn't have his time erased while GER had his time erased though he's infinite" they only show movement in a time stop.
2. You have no proof for his time being erased, it was never stated, it was never shown.
3. If GER had infinite speed he would have used it. He has never even shown higher than usual speeds let alone infinite speeds.
4. By we i mean the wiki. The wiki's standards on resistances tell us to use resistance.
5. Diavolo "tried to ERASE GER'S TIME" which is an action that can be resisted just fine. That's all. The visuals of GER and Diavolo moving are the same aswell. Moving in that "time erasure" in general is described by those visuals. Visuals don't show "diavolo didn't have his time erased while GER had his time erased though he's infinite" they only show movement in a time stop.
- 16,606
- 1,791
As I showed the scans for above, the presence of various iteration of yourself show1 erased time. I would directly link them again, but I am on mobile so you will have to look at what was posted above. GER clearly shows the visual effects of erased time.
He did use it. If you are implying that GER should have killed Diavolo before he ever erased time, Epitaph makes Diavolo unblitzable even to one with infinite speed. What do you mean "higher than usual?" He has a single speed feat, which points to infinite. There is no contradiction, so it is consistent.
The wiki's standards do not apply to specific abilities such as King Crimson. So far, the only thing you have tried to apply are time stop standards, which do not apply, and void feats. You have made it clear that you do not believe that KC creates a timeless void, so neither apply.
We see the visual effects on GER, so it very clearly did work. That is not the case, because during his fight with Buccelati, only Sticky Fingers and its user showed the effects, not Diavolo. Diavolo only showed the visual effects once erased time was applied to him. Do not compare KC to time stop such as The World or Star Platinum, that is a blatant false equivalence.
He did use it. If you are implying that GER should have killed Diavolo before he ever erased time, Epitaph makes Diavolo unblitzable even to one with infinite speed. What do you mean "higher than usual?" He has a single speed feat, which points to infinite. There is no contradiction, so it is consistent.
The wiki's standards do not apply to specific abilities such as King Crimson. So far, the only thing you have tried to apply are time stop standards, which do not apply, and void feats. You have made it clear that you do not believe that KC creates a timeless void, so neither apply.
We see the visual effects on GER, so it very clearly did work. That is not the case, because during his fight with Buccelati, only Sticky Fingers and its user showed the effects, not Diavolo. Diavolo only showed the visual effects once erased time was applied to him. Do not compare KC to time stop such as The World or Star Platinum, that is a blatant false equivalence.
- 20,509
- 1,590
- Thread starter
- #118
Because you just agree to go where there is no time. Get my point?Seventy96 said:
The air example is my fav one here.
You cannot resist "not having air" when you are in space. There just isn't air, there is nothing to resist.
Same thing here, you cannot resist the fact that you are outside of the flow of time.
- 147
- 6
GER has infinity + 5000 speed so shut up
- 5,524
- 853
No need to be rude
- Status
Similar threads
