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Jojo infinite speed downgrades.

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By use it i mean "USE IT IN ANY FIGHT EVER". He has never moved at those speeds, so it's not consistent. Since he has never used it on anyone it is not consistent. Speed that is never used outside of a time hax? Yup, sounds like resistance to me.

There is a TON of speculation on how it is done. So you cannot just slap the best option on it.

A single feat can be dismissed as a mere outlier, there needs to be something consistant. You know about Medaka Box, all you need to do is take a look at it and realize how much stuff can be dismissed as a mere outlier.

The visuals you were talking about are the same. Diavolo and GER's visual effects were the exact same with the afterimages. Diavolo is not stuck in time because "he still has time" (which is something he stated himself), if his visual effect is the same as GER's visual effect means that GER also could move because of the "he still had time" reason. So even by visual effect it points towards resistance.

And again i already got a ton of acceptance on this, so this is practically concluded.
 
Wait did MiH actually resist time stopping abilities (i mean anything aching to a time stop, be that from Dio/Star Platinum or Diavolo) via accelerating?

If yes show me a feat, that would mean he can accelerate to infinity itself.
 
GER gets a downgrade, yes.

Diavolo's ability is poorly translated too IIRC. That's why the meme is "it just works". Diavolo's time erasure doesn't even stop people from moving, and IIRC GER wasn't moving until after the time erasure ended.
 
Yeah once the MiH part is clarified a bit both will be changed.

MiH will be changed to "infinity over time" (or sth like that) since it does require time to accelerate to that speed as it doesn't have it as a base speed, but rather as a haxxed speed.

GER and HAD will have infinite stats removed. Also the infinite stat on Dio was actually pretty dumb to be added. I mean ok GER getting it at first due to whatever happened, but HAD is non canon and so is the GER who fought him. Applying canon feats to a non canon verse seems pretty dumb.
 
Can someone easily explain the logic behind infinite speed GER for me? Is he not just resetting Diavolo's effect of erased time on Giorno?
 
ProfessorLord said:
Can someone easily explain the logic behind infinite speed GER for me? Is he not just resetting Diavolo's effect of erased time on Giorno?
Click to expand...
Not immediately, no.
 
Also funny enough Pucci does resist time-stop to a minor degree. He can see and react within it, and Made In Heaven drastically accelerates the rate at which stopped time passes making Jotaro 5 seconds actually something like barely 2.
 
ProfessorLord said:
Also funny enough Pucci does resist time-stop to a minor degree. He can see and react within it, and Made In Heaven drastically accelerates the rate at which stopped time passes making Jotaro 5 seconds actually something like barely 2.
Click to expand...
That's only possibly infinite then. If he's unable to move in a time stop, that's not fully infinite.
 
No it's just resistance to timestop. Infinite speed is almost never given if a character is moving in stopped time unless it has been explicitly stated.
 
ProfessorLord said:
No it's just resistance to timestop. Infinite speed is almost never given if a character is moving in stopped time unless it has been explicitly stated.
Click to expand...
I know , that's about GER doe.

I was talking to your Pucci reacting in time stop. If he can't move in a time stop he can't be infinite.
 
Huh? Only then? It's awefully non combat applicable then.

He cannot stop the universe from resetting and if it does reset he stops.

Also it has to be changed to "infinite over time" due to him needing time to achieve infinity and he can still be blitzed before that.
 
Please read what people are saying. It's like you read the first couple of sentences then just skip the rest:

ProfessorLord said:
However, him ever reaching such a speed immediately causes a reset. His infinite speed is a fact, he just cannot use it for anything other than resetting the universe.

The universe would only reset once if he reaches such speed because his speed immediately ends once the universe collapses.
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We're still an indexing wiki so it gets included regardless. Besides, there may exist matchups where an opponent can negate or prevent the universe from resetting but are stil vulnerable to the now infinite speed Pucci.

It's over an unspecified period of time, yes. He should be able to accelerate to it instantly seeing as how the gap between ANY real number representing his speed and his cap of infinite is infinitely large. The reason he does not is because it will reset the universe and those who are not dead will come back as the same soul.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
By use it i mean "USE IT IN ANY FIGHT EVER". He has never moved at those speeds, so it's not consistent. Since he has never used it on anyone it is not consistent. Speed that is never used outside of a time hax? Yup, sounds like resistance to me.
There is a TON of speculation on how it is done. So you cannot just slap the best option on it.

A single feat can be dismissed as a mere outlier, there needs to be something consistant. You know about Medaka Box, all you need to do is take a look at it and realize how much stuff can be dismissed as a mere outlier.

The visuals you were talking about are the same. Diavolo and GER's visual effects were the exact same with the afterimages. Diavolo is not stuck in time because "he still has time" (which is something he stated himself), if his visual effect is the same as GER's visual effect means that GER also could move because of the "he still had time" reason. So even by visual effect it points towards resistance.

And again i already got a ton of acceptance on this, so this is practically concluded.
Click to expand...
He did, by moving with no time means that he moved at those speeds. Literally, you can't resist not having time. You can resist time getting removed, but you cannot resist not having time. Due to the visual effects, it is clear that his time was erased, so it cannot be resistence. Moving with no time is the speed feat, so he has moved with those speeds. He has no contradicting feats, so it is consistent.

When there is only one feat, and nothing contradicting it. It cannot be an outlier. Unless there is an example of a canon character outspeeding GER, his one speed feat is consistent. Thus, infinite speed is consistent. Medaka Box is its own issues, bring that up with Matt

He had the visuals after he the effect got reversed on him. GER clearly has the visual effect on him, you cannot deny that. What do you mean he is not stuck in time? Are you refering to his normal usage of the ability or after GER did the set to 0? He didn't have time, in fact looking at the numerous other fights point to that being a sign of having your time erased. Are you going to claim that Base Giorno and Buccelati also have "resistence" to not having time as well?

That was before new info was introduced
 
ArbitraryNumbers said:
GER gets a downgrade, yes.
Diavolo's ability is poorly translated too IIRC. That's why the meme is "it just works". Diavolo's time erasure doesn't even stop people from moving, and IIRC GER wasn't moving until after the time erasure ended.
Click to expand...
Please read the rebuttle I gave to his initial points. Even if what he says is true, regardless of which way you cut it, it still turns out infinite speed
 
Honestly, infinite speed is such a gap between literally any other character in the series (except for Pucci but his is non combat-applicable) that it should just be an outlier.

I re-read what you said and I still don't understand how this is not a case of GER reverting the erased time back to normal. It's not Crazy Diamond; he should be able to revert what has been erased.
 
ProfessorLord said:
Honestly, infinite speed is such a gap between literally any other character in the series (except for Pucci but his is non combat-applicable) that it should just be an outlier.
I re-read what you said and I still don't understand how this is not a case of GER reverting the erased time back to normal. It's not Crazy Diamond; he should be able to revert what has been erased.
Click to expand...
That doesn't matter, God Tiers are allowed to have massive power gaps from the rest of the verse. Weather Report can literally destroy the atmosphere, which is leagues above everyone else in the original universe yet it still flies. Simply because it "feels" like an outlier off of a knee jerk reaction, does not mean it is

Read what I wrote. Even if he activated it mid time erasure, that is still infinite speed in reaction and activation if nothing else. If he had done it post erasure, that would have been one thing, but he didn't. He did it when he had no time. Also, he still moved around before time had been completely restored
 
It's not related to tier but related to speed. Literally nobody, even SCR has approached infinite speeds. Weather Report uses environmental destruction and is tied with Valentine anyway, so bad example.

Events still happen and occur in the erased time including breathing, speaking, moving, etc. They just do not traditionally have any effect during that period of time. GER being able to reset it mid-time erasure is more so that GER is powerful enough to overcome and negate Diavolo's ability rather than him being able to fight and move at infinite speeds.
 
ProfessorLord said:
It's not related to tier but related to speed. Literally nobody, even SCR has approached infinite speeds. Weather Report uses environmental destruction and is tied with Valentine anyway, so bad example.
Events still happen and occur in the erased time including breathing, speaking, moving, etc. They just do not traditionally have any effect during that period of time. GER being able to reset it mid-time erasure is more so that GER is powerful enough to overcome and negate Diavolo's ability rather than him being able to fight and move at infinite speeds.
Click to expand...
Doesn't matter, same veign still applies. SCR is not a direct combat stand, so why bring it up? You know Requiem stands are based on the desire of their user at the time of the pearcing, so why bring up a stand clealy not meant even close to the point of GER. He also literally got an upgrade never seen by anyone else, except SCR which is different for obvious reasons, so they are not comparable.

Not in the traditional sense they don't. Literally, all the points within the erased time coexist. Buccelati literally saw his future self in the after math. You cannot resist not having time any more than you can resist a timeless void. You can resist having it removed, but as was demostrated, that's not what happened. You cannot resist not having time.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
There is no reaction in 0 time, i mean resistance requires no reaction. You are just resistant.
Click to expand...
Wtf do you mean? You cannot resist having no time. If you dump GER in the void, will he suddenly resist not having time and still move? If he has no time, and took an action to undo the erasure, that's still infinite speed
 
To use Fire's favorite Metaphore, you cannot resist not having air. If GER could have somehow kept air in his lounges, then it wouldn't have been resistence to not having air, it would have been resistant to erasing all the air. But GER didn't still have air in his lounges, but he kept going anyway, therefore the only option is that he can survive without air. Make sense Fire?
 
Regardless, Giorno is still the only infinite speed user. Other requiem stands don't have such speeds and even a stand designed to move at that speeds cannot use it for combat. This sounds like a major outlier so it will require extraordinary proof.

Correct, so Giorno negating it mid-time erasure is not proof that he can move in a timeless void (which is untrue, Diavolo is just using colorful language. Time still exists.) but moreso proof that Giorno's power can overwhelm the usual lack of consequence. He's not resisting a timeless void, he's performing actions in a period of time where all effect and consequence are erased. That's resisting Diavolo's hax, not moving at infinite speeds.
 
ProfessorLord said:
Regardless, Giorno is still the only infinite speed user. Other requiem stands don't have such speeds and even a stand designed to move at that speeds cannot use it for combat. This sounds like a major outlier so it will require extraordinary proof.
Correct, so Giorno negating it mid-time erasure is not proof that he can move in a timeless void (which is untrue, Diavolo is just using colorful language. Time still exists.) but moreso proof that Giorno's power can overwhelm the usual lack of consequence. He's not resisting a timeless void, he's performing actions in a period of time where all effect and consequence are erased. That's resisting Diavolo's hax, not moving at infinite speeds.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is right. He is a God tier, God tiers are allowed to be astronomically faster and stronger than everyone else. You cannot use lower tier characters to disprove a higher tier character unless that lower tier character has at some point proven a level of supremecy or comparability over the higher tier character. Its the exception Fallacy. Silver Chariot Requiem is borderline not even a combat stand, so it is incomparable. It may be far higher for the verse, but that is nothing new in fiction, Having one character astronomically faster or stronger than the others. So there is no issue. GER has one feat, so it cannot be an outlier for him

As I said above, it does not matter if we consider KC's erased time a void or not, because it ends up infinite speed either way. Time does not exist, that is very clear. It is head canon to think otherwise. This is almost as bad as the people who think KC is a form of memory manipulation. He is moving with his time erased, that is infinite speed. Unless we take your interpritation which literally contradicts everything the text says
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Firephoenixearl said:
There is no reaction in 0 time, i mean resistance requires no reaction. You are just resistant.
Click to expand...
Wtf do you mean? You cannot resist having no time. If you dump GER in the void, will he suddenly resist not having time and still move? If he has no time, and took an action to undo the erasure, that's still infinite speed
Click to expand...
He will resist having his time erased by Diavolo. Visuals are a moot point if you can't show me the creator saying "this is used to describe the time was erased", you are not the author so that is just your intepretation, your opinion, your idea of what is happening, which are all non valid points of view, the only valid one is the author's point of view, unless you can show us the authors intent then the "visuals" argument is invalid.

Giorno lacking a blitz IS a contradiction. If giorno had infinite speed he would literally be able to blitz Diavolo inside the freaking time erasure. There is also the fact that Giorno has NEVER moved at anything that aches to "infinity" outside of that. That is a "CONTRADICTION" because he's never shown to be able to use that "infinite speed" outside of Diavolo's hax. GER doesn't have just 1 feat, he has a LOT of feats, though only 1 of them says "he's infinite" while all the others don't point to such result and even then it's still just resistance.

GER is going to get downgraded, that topic already got too many upvotes on it (including staff member upvotes).
 
Time is not literally erased. Read the explanation on his profile.

You've divulged into head canon territory. It's not a timeless void, it's a void diluted of consequence and action. Literally says that in his phenomenal explanation.
 
Death of the author my dude. His intent is superceded by what is shown, and in basically every instance of Erased time applying, that effect went into play. Clearly you are also not familiar with the wiki's policy on author's interpritation and statements. Death of the author means that it does not matter what he meant, and we do not need a statement

Nope, Epitaph makes him basically unblitzable. Giorno doesn't have infinite speed my dude; GER does. GER has one speed feat and one feat only, so it cannot be an outlier for himself. Again, moving in erased time is his feat. What are his other speed feats? I would like to see the other canon fight GER had where he had more speed feats and anti-feats

That was before the imput by dude. We know from Matt that one dude stepping in to debunk is enough to stop a downgrade or upgrade
 
ProfessorLord said:
Time is not literally erased. Read the explanation on his profile.
You've divulged into head canon territory. It's not a timeless void, it's a void diluted of consequence and action. Literally says that in his phenomenal explanation.
Click to expand...
Yes, it is. Its outright contradicting every instance of the source material. The secondary source that is his profile is a metaphor, not the literal interworkings

I said it does not matter if it is a timeless void or not, don't put words in my mount. You literally have gone against the source material of Diavolo saying that he erases time because you do not like to thinkg of it that way. That is head canon. It does not have to be a timeless void, because GER still had his time erased, so its infinite speed regardless. Also, voids are not the only way to get infinite speed feats, just a common way
 
Alright I have already made my peace and explained myself.

It seems you and PolarKid are the only one who are in agreement on the matter. I have to go but I count 5-6 people who have already expressed disagreement with your sentiment.

So if we could just wrap this up that'd be good for everyone. You aren't convincing me and I am not convincing you.
 
If you want to cut if off here, sure.

Yojirobo and Tactical as well. The other people only gave their agreement before the debunks happened, so their "FRA" votes stopped when new info got added.

Perhaps, but Fire still needs to defend his points, which is what this is founded on. He cannot hold his points together, so without it, its not gonna go through or stay
 
Iapitus has my vote.

You ca resist Time Manipulation, but that is not the case here. King Crimson literally erases Time, GER moving in the absence of time itself by default qualifies for Infinite speed, not even going to touch on the "none" stuff.

Overcomplicating the context behind the feat doesn't help.
 
Kahndaq Lord said:
Iapitus has my vote.
You ca resist Time Manipulation, but that is not the case here. King Crimson literally erases Time, GER moving in the absence of time itself by default qualifies for Infinite speed, not even going to touch on the "none" stuff.

Overcomplicating the context behind the feat doesn't help.
Click to expand...
Ger can still resist Erasing Time.

Erasing time is a sub-power of Time Manipulation.

ANY HAX HAS A RESISTANCE

that's like the 1 rule of hax. If you have a hax, there exists a resistance for it.
 
Except he didn't. That's the point of the effects.

GER's time was erased, but still managed to move anyway. You cannot resist not having time.

Yes, but this is not that. The ability took effect, yet he acted anyway. You cannot resist not having time
 
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