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So i hear that odin is actually universe+ level

Matthew is pretty hand-on with IRL stuff and other wikia projects, so please don't rush him. Thor is a long run as well, so be patient
 
Mickey1940 said:
that moment when you realize that Ribrianne is currently stronger than Odin, Zeus, and Thor on this wiki...
Click to expand...
Kek, must wait a little m8

Staff has alot of **** to do, DC and Marvel is not a only Verse on this thread (and definitely not the most important.)
 
Yes, I am constantly working overtime trying to help out with keeping the wiki running, but I am dependent on the other staff members for the improvement of verse statistics, and they are often busy IRL, or with other revisions.
 
I think Odin is definitely Multi-Galaxy+, or even nigh Universal in base. But Universal - Universal+ level ? No!!!

The 10th Realm was only stated to have the size of a Universe. No proof of it having the Structure of Universe :/

Odin's fight with Seth destruction may result in the Universe after their fight because they destroyed.... Trillions of Galaxies lol, they even tear the Space-Time Apart. Not enough proofs to be a Universe-Destroying Feat. I remembered that if u wanted a character to be upgraded to Universal; that character must destroy a Universe with one-shot OR defeat the one who destroy a Universe with one-shot right ?

9 Realms= 9 Universes and Yggdrasil= a set of countless Universes are the most non-sense fact that I've seen :(. Midgard Serpent was only Planet Level lol, if Midgard= Universe so Thor must have lifted the Universe right ? None of the official handbooks has stated that, every scans and statements described Asgard as a flat, asteroid-like. Nothing in comics / guidebooks has actually showed that Asgard and other Realms really have enough condition to be considered as a Universe; the writers even wrote a Map of Asgard look like an Island/ Country lol. You guys said 9 Realms= Universes based on some.... statement feats even though they're contradict to every points/ proof before ? <(")

Statement feats of Asgardians are horrible af; do u guys remember " Omnipotent Odin " ? And it's repeatedly stated not only once, but three times and that statement feat even had the Word of God supported Odin's Omnipotence <(") . No proof of 9 Realms to have the structure of a Universe meh, there were only statement feats

And based on actual feat, during the famous Surtur's invasion arc ( Written by Jack Kirby so it can't be an outlier ,by the way I really don't want to consider Stan Lee as writer ), Surtur had to attack Asgard for the item to bring Universe's destruction :/ . Odin lost to Surtur with Twilight Sword badly, even though he used the Odin Force, God Blast and every ***** he had. And you know what ? Surtur still couldn't destroy Universe without the help of Eternal Flame :/, if Odin could warp a Universe with maximum ease by your logic, so why Surtur amped with Twilight Sword who was far superior to Odin had to get the Eternal Flame for the Universal Destruction ?

=> Upgrade Skyfathers to 3-A or Low 2-C is a big mistake :/. Even Jack Kirby didn't think they were Universal Buster, thanks for your time and I hoped u could read my points. There're still some mistake in my grammar, English is my second language
 
Well, it would probably be best if somebody asked Matthew Schroeder to come here and take a look at your post.
 
It seems like you figured out how to do it on your own.
 
ThavinKiri2410 said:
I think Odin is definitely Multi-Galaxy+, or even nigh Universal in base. But Universal - Universal+ level ? No!!!
Click to expand...
While too i don't think that Marvel Odin and any other Skyfather level characters should be upgraded at Low 2-C, there is still enough evidence to upgraded at 3-A.

ThavinKiri2410 said:
The 10th Realm was only stated to have the size of a Universe. No proof of it having the Structure of Universe :/
Click to expand...
It doesn't really matter, if the dimension is still supposed to be the size of an universe, that woud still means that affect the entirety of it would requid 3-A level of power.

ThavinKiri2410 said:
Odin's fight with Seth destruction may result in the Universe after their fight because they destroyed.... Trillions of Galaxies lol, they even tear the Space-Time Apart. Not enough proofs to be a Universe-Destroying Feat. I remembered that if u wanted a character to be upgraded to Universal; that character must destroy a Universe with one-shot OR defeat the one who destroy a Universe with one-shot right ?
Click to expand...
Yes, the fight between Odin and Seth was never be directly stated that it was going to destroy the universe (unlike the case of Goku and Beerus), but their clash was still able to affect the entire space-time, tearing at the very fabric of the multiverse and even create a shockwave that had ripples across all plane of reality, plenty of evidence to suggest that it was a 3-A feat at least.

And is not like Odin or Seth were trying to destroy the universe, this wasn't their intention, it was do defeat each other.

ThavinKiri2410 said:
9 Realms= 9 Universes and Yggdrasil= a set of countless Universes are the most non-sense fact that I've seen :(. Midgard Serpent was only Planet Level lol, if Midgard= Universe so Thor must have lifted the Universe right ? None of the official handbooks has stated that, every scans and statements described Asgard as a flat, asteroid-like. Nothing in comics / guidebooks has actually showed that Asgard and other Realms really have enough condition to be considered as a Universe; the writers even wrote a Map of Asgard look like an Island/ Country lol. You guys said 9 Realms= Universes based on some.... statement feats even though they're contradict to every points/ proof before ? <(")
Click to expand...
Actually there where several statements in the comics (at least the recent ones) where the Nine Worlds/Realms were be described as universes.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:10_realms_10_universes.jpg

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:9_realms_9_universes.jpg

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...498930-0442223661-5445701-5254828527--002.jpg.

Although it contradict previous show and statements, as the realms were usually referred as only worlds (existing in other dimensions) or pocket dimensions much smaller than a normal universe.

http://animatedcartoons.co/blog/wp-...e-Nine-Worlds-In-The-Thor-Marvel-Universe.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2a/19/b1/2a19b171128e067ef218ca5291efb72d.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gkBwD2rF8...ob8sH5O0/s1600/Marvel+Saga+%236++Simonson.jpg

ThavinKiri2410 said:
Statement feats of Asgardians are horrible af; do u guys remember " Omnipotent Odin " ? And it's repeatedly stated not only once, but three times and that statement feat even had the Word of God supported Odin's Omnipotence <(") . No proof of 9 Realms to have the structure of a Universe meh, there were only statement feats
Click to expand...
Statements of Odin's omnipotence can be easily disproved via common sense, statements of the realms having universal size are much less ridiculous, not when the claim come from multiple characters that had no reason to lie or aren't know to over exaggerate.

ThavinKiri2410 said:
And based on actual feat, during the famous Surtur's invasion arc ( Written by Jack Kirby so it can't be an outlier ,by the way I really don't want to consider Stan Lee as writer ), Surtur had to attack Asgard for the item to bring Universe's destruction :/ . Odin lost to Surtur with Twilight Sword badly, even though he used the Odin Force, God Blast and every ***** he had. And you know what ? Surtur still couldn't destroy Universe without the help of Eternal Flame :/, if Odin could warp a Universe with maximum ease by your logic, so why Surtur amped with Twilight Sword who was far superior to Odin had to get the Eternal Flame for the Universal Destruction ?
Click to expand...
Well, this could very well be an outlier.

ThavinKiri2410 said:
=> Upgrade Skyfathers to 3-A or Low 2-C is a big mistake :/. Even Jack Kirby didn't think they were Universal Buster, thanks for your time and I hoped u could read my points. There're still some mistake in my grammar, English is my second language
Click to expand...
Here we don't really care about the opinion of the authors.

Feats, calculations, powerscaling and statements take priority.
 
@ThavinKiri2410

1. "The 10th Realm was only stated to have the size of a Universe. No proof of it having the Structure of Universe :/"

All the realms are, and I quote, "universes, complex, discrete, and fully-formed."

2. The fight with Seth doesn't matter. It's a mid-level showing for Skyfather-tiers.

3. "9 Realms= 9 Universes and Yggdrasil= a set of countless Universes are the most non-sense fact that I've seen"..."None of the official handbooks has stated that"..."Nothing in comics / guidebooks has actually showed that Asgard and other Realms really have enough condition to be considered as a Universe"..."You guys said 9 Realms= Universes based on some.... statement feats even though they're contradict to every points/ proof before ? <(")"

Oh boy. First of all, there's a difference between Asgard the city/region and Asgard-space. Asgard resides in its own dimension, aptly named Asgard-space. The other realms are also in their own dimensions. The dimensions are directly stated to be fully-formed universes. All of that information is straight from the comics. Stop spewing misinformation. The Midgard Serpent would not be upgraded to universal because he has no feats or statements approaching that level. In contrast, beings like Surtur would be because they were stated to destroy universes, not just the planet.

4. "Omnipotent Odin blah blah...No proof of 9 Realms to have the structure of a Universe meh, there were only statement feats"

You're being extremely disingenuous. The first is a clearly hyperbolic statement. The second was an info-dump by a quantum scientist.

5. "And based on actual feat, during the famous Surtur's invasion arc ( Written by Jack Kirby so it can't be an outlier ,by the way I really don't want to consider Stan Lee as writer )"

The arc you're talking about was written by Walter Simonson. If it wasn't made clear already, you seem confused about all of this.

6. "Surtur had to attack Asgard for the item to bring Universe's destruction :/ ."..."And you know what ? Surtur still couldn't destroy Universe without the help of Eternal Flame :/"

Your entire point in this paragraph hinges on your misunderstanding of the story. The Eternal Flame gives Surtur the power to destroy all the Realms, not just the main universe. And Odin was absolutely able to put up a fight lasting many pages against Surtur. Furthermore, Surtur's power was constantly regenerating via the Eternal Flame as he approached it, while Odin's was not.

And when you say, "even though he used the Odin Force, God Blast and every shit he had," you again make it clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Odinforce is just Odin's power, it's not some special thing he whips out. And nowhere in that fight was any God Blast mentioned, plus that's Thor's special move.

7. "Upgrade Skyfathers to 3-A or Low 2-C is a big mistake :/. Even Jack Kirby didn't think they were Universal Buster, thanks for your time and I hoped u could read my points. There're still some mistake in my grammar, English is my second language"

Your grammar is fine and your English is completely understandable, but your arguments are completely based in misinformation.

There's more than enough evidence for universal Odin.
 
Feats and evidence of Odin being Universal+ and Low Multiversal

Odin while depowered tanked a blast from the pantheon of narcisson merged into one being during Thor vol. 2 issue 12. this being was so powerful it almost destroyed the destroyer armour in a single blast. and Destroyer armor is durable enough to face Universal armageddon.

Dormammu himself stated that he is the equal of Odin and Zeus and Handbooks too said that Dormammu and Odin/Zeus are equals and Odin/Zeus are extradimensional beings.

Odin also has a small portion of the unlimited power of the abstract being Infinity.

His battles side effects themselves were tearing the fabric of multiverse

Half of Odin's soul was powerful enough to consume the 616 Universe and the 616 universe is infinite/endless

Odin states that he has the power to Overthrow a Universe

Odin Rips the 10th Realm from Yggdrasil and seals it in a hut (It's a Universal level reality warping feat)

Odin nullified the Eternal Flame which was powerful enough to destroy all of creation and was also powerful enough to burn the Yggdrasil (which is infinite and is a Multiverse in itself)

Odin matches the limitless power of the Eternal Flame

Odin fought Seth in every plane of existence

Odin was able to overpower Uthana-Thoth and Uthana-Thoth is a casual universe buster

Odin-Force (which is the power source of Odin) has Limitless Potential

Some guys claim the nine realms were always just planets, that is blatantly false. The realms of yggdrasil were classified as fully formed Universes. not only once but many times and each realm has it's own space and the Midgard Universe is the 616 Universe.
 
Tony Stark69 said:
Dormammu himself stated that he is the equal of Odin and Zeus and Handbooks too said that Dormammu and Odin/Zeus are equals and Odin/Zeus are extradimensional beings.
Click to expand...
This scaling could only be apply with Dormammu when he is outside the Dark Dimension, since his powers are weakened beyond the boundaries of his home.

Tony Stark69 said:
Odin also has a small portion of the unlimited power of the abstract being Infinity.
Click to expand...
Having a small portion of an Abstract doesn't prove that Odin must be Universal+, Juggernaut usually use a small portion of the power of Cyttorak and he isn't Skyfather level.

Tony Stark69 said:
Half of Odin's soul was powerful enough to consume the 616 Universe and the 616 universe is infinite/endless
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if we should start to consider Earth-616 to be infinite, not when Massively FTL+ characters are capable to across it.

Tony Stark69 said:
Odin states that he has the power to Overthrow a Universe
Click to expand...
This could be translated to Odin having Universal power, not necessarily Universal+ power.

Tony Stark69 said:
Odin nullified the Eternal Flame which was powerful enough to destroy all of creation and was also powerful enough to burn the Yggdrasil (which is infinite and is a Multiverse in itself)
Click to expand...
This was be debunk by TheSandman31 in this thread, Surtur needed to store massive amounts of energy from across the Nine Worlds with the help of the Manchester Gods and he needed to release the Eternal Flame in the Otherworld, a place connect of all realities/universes in the Marvelverse.

The Eternal Flame was going to burn everything via chair reaction and it was only the power of burn the Nine Worlds (which could be just Universal since the space-time of the Nine Worlds are connected and that Odin only needed to send the Eternal Flame to another dimension for make it harmless), and even that it was far more powerful than usual due of the energy collected from all the Nine Worlds.

When it was stated that the Yggdrasil has its own multiverse?

Tony Stark69 said:
Odin fought Seth in every plane of existence
Click to expand...
Actually it was the shockwave of their energy clash which ripples across all planes of existence (which by the way are not the same as universes).

Tony Stark69 said:
Odin was able to overpower Uthana-Thoth and Uthana-Thoth is a casual universe buster
Click to expand...
Uthana never casualy destroyed any universe, he was keeps his dying universe alive instead.
 
Yes, I am uncertain, as I do not have enough time available to properly analyse the issue. It is better to let Matthew handle it.
 
@Stefano4444

These are comics, Reed Richards has travelled across infinite dimensions, Ultimates went outside the Multiverse and Thanos too went outside of Multiverse.

Uthana-Thoth destroyed his own Universe and His own Universe is infinite

IG Thanos (who is virtually omniscient because of time stone) ranked Odin, Galactus and a Celestial on same importance and power level.

Eternal Flame has limitless power and it was powerful enough to burn the Yggradasil Yggradasil spans space and time (space and time are infinite)

Yggradasil is infinite because it spans space and time (which are infinite) as proved in the above link and is a Multiverse because it contains 9 Universes and 616/Midgard which is part of it, is endless/infinite (as I shown the scan earlier).

Odin Force which is a part of Odin has limitless potential.
 
Tony Stark69 said:
Uthana-Thoth destroyed his own Universe and His own Universe is infinite
Click to expand...
There scans prove what i have say before, that Uthana was keeping alive his dying universe, only for then be left it to die after was no longer necessary and it was never stated that the dying universe was infinite.

Tony Stark69 said:
IG Thanos (who is virtually omniscient because of time stone) ranked Odin, Galactus and a Celestial on same importance and power level.
Click to expand...
The last time Odin had to fight the Celestials he was beated badly, even with the Destroyer and been power boost by the strength of other Asgardians.

Galactus needed to be Well Fed to fought the Mad Celestials, and Galactus is more powerful than Odin even when is Moderately Fed.

Tony Stark69 said:
Eternal Flame has limitless power and it was powerful enough to burn the Yggradasil
Click to expand...
Sure, limitless power while he still need additional energy for all the Nine Worlds and the Otherworld for burn the entire multiverse...

Tony Stark69 said:
Yggradasil is infinite because it spans space and time (which are infinite) as proved in the above link and is a Multiverse because it contains 9 Universes and 616/Midgard which is part of it, is endless/infinite (as I shown the scan earlier).
Click to expand...
The Yggradasil act like the foundation for the Nine Worlds, destroy the foundation and everything would collapse.

And i would like to see the context of the scan before judge further.

Tony Stark69 said:
Odin Force which is a part of Odin has limitless potential.
Click to expand...
Having limitless potential isn't proof of 4th dimensional level of power.
 
@Stefano4444

The fight between Celestials and Odin was PIS, if you read that comic, you will get to see that Thor was able to harm those Celestials which Odin (even with heavy amp) couldn't, this indicates the fight was completely PIS and the Celestials were nerfed as time passed.

Yes, because they're degrees/levels of infinite.

It was stated many times that Galactus and Odin are rivals in terms of power.

But Odin nullified the Eternal Flame (which was amped) and it burned the Yggradasil which is infinite because it Spans Space and time (space and time are infinite) and here is The full sca

See? Eternal Flame needed a heavy amp to burn the Yggradasil, because the world tree is infinite.

The 9 realms are nothing but a part of Yggradasil. So, to destroy/burn Yggradasil you will need infinite power.

Thor and Loki did not just fly into normal space, they broke through time and space to the otherworldly multiversal nexus of the world tree yggdrasil which exists outside the main 616 universe which is an another proof that the World Tree is infinite.

When I said that having limitless potential makes you 4th dimensional?

In the below scan, Uthana said life itself is compressing into the infinite and by infinite he was referring to his universe because he was about to destroy his own universe.

Screenshot 2018-05-12-21-33-24-1
Yes, the dying Universe was infinite
 
There is no point in bumping this. Nothing will happen until Matthew gets sufficient free time to focus on organising these revisions, and that could take months.
 
You can remind him via his message wall.
 
1) Harm is a big word, he was able to crack the armor yes but that is not the same as actually damage the Celestial, nearly any time Thor had fought a Celestial it always ended with a heavy defeat for the God of Thunder and he few times he was able to do was because he was amped.

So nope, Odin getting his ass kicked by a group of Celestials even with the Destroyer Armor is not PIS at all, it is consistent with the establish rank of power in the Marvelverse that Abstract > Skyfather.

2) It way more consistently show/stated that Galactus > Odin, both in standard conditions or when both are amped.

Amped Odin vs Amped Galactus is ended up with the near defeat of the former, while even admitting that he would have lost the fight in the same comic.

Doctor Doom with the powers stolen from Galactus was able to defeat all Asgard, including a piss off Odin without any trouble.

The only time i remember a Skyfather trully defeating Galactus was when Zeus was under the control of the Chaos King, but even that Zeus was too amped by Chaos King.

3) Odin only BFR the Eternal Flame to another realm, he was never stated or show Odin nullified the fire blast of Surtur and either it was suggest that he could be able to do it in the first place.

4) How exactly spans time and space means that the Yggradasil must be infinite? It never stated that it spans infinite amount of space-time and create space-time by itself doesn't requid 4th power (Mundus from DMC can create a pocket dimension but he still isn't 4th dimensional) unless you can create a universal space-time continuum.

Also i still try to understand how such statement prove that the Yggradasil is a multiverse, existing outside the main universe doesn't mean that the Yhhradasil is Multiversal/Multiversal+.

The Crack of Time from Xenoverse isn't considered Multiversal only because the place exist outside the 12 universes.

5) How exactly the quote "life itself is compressing into the infinite" prove that the dying universe was infinite? In no single part of that statement it is suggest that the life or the universe is infinite.
 
Stefano4444

1. Odin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thor, even with belt of strength. if Thor can break open Exitar's armour then the combined power of Odin, Zeus and Vishnu should have very seriously wounded if not oneshot killed Exitar. Thor also broke open Exitar's brain case with a godblast. Both feats are achieved by Thor are greater than anything Odin did when he fought Celestials, which is nothing but clear PIS.

2. Odin only knew he was not able to keep brawling after fighting galactus, not before. Odin had the destroyer armour ready before the fight, then later he conciously transferred his soul to it, he was never KOed and there is no evidence to the contrary.

You also can't base it on single instance vs fights. If we used that logic then everyone would have to agree Rulk is superior to Uatu the watcher, Batman can harm the specter with a kick and Superman is infinitely strong. If being an abstract is just a title and not a power level... then how is it friggin valid in debate!? being an abstract means zero, zilch, nil without feats, titles mean nothing, feats are what matters

Not only the power Galactus Dr.Doom was also amped by the power The Cosmic Cube, The Ultimate Machine,The Sacred Helix and The Cosmic Control Rod but Odin still held his own against an amped Doom.

3. Even half of Odin's soul was powerful enough to destroy the universe Odin has not only nullified the Eternal Flame but he has also tanked and matched Eternal Flame

4. Yggradasil is an infinite iceberg. and those 8 Fully formed Universe and 1 infinite sized Universe (Midgard aka 616 Universe) are just a tip of Yggradasil.


5. He was destroying his Universe so he should have talked about his own universe
 
1) Can you explicitly prove that Odin was more powerful than Thor even when amped by the belt of power? Or that the difference of strength was as still as massive as normally? Is not like Thor cannot reach Skyfather level with the right amps, after all he did defeat Glory (who was as powerful as a Skyfather) by fusing his soul as Donald Blake with Jane Foster.

Anyway, in all circumstances Thor was only able to made small cracks and holes in the Celestial's armor, nothing indicate that the Celestial was been harmed, so his examples cannot be used to disprove the validity of the fight between the 3 Skyfather (Odin, Zeus and Vishnu) again Exitar, as well as Odin + Destroyer Armor again the Celestials.

2) Ok, even if Galactus and Odin are equal in power, this is only in the case of a Moderately Fed Galactus (which had mostly Multi-Galactic and Universal feats), not Fully Fed Galactus.

3) Aside the fact that he had BFR the Eternal Flame, the Eternal Flame had the power to destroy all Nine Worlds at once only during the Everything Burns series, where it was amped by the energy collected by the Manchester Gods from all the Nine Worlds.

The Eternal Flame that Odin has has equally match during his fight with Surtur didn't had the same power as the one that Surtur was using during the Everything Burns series.

4) Yggdrasil be infinite doesn't mean it must have infinite space-time, this could also means infinite 3d space as well like the Void from Dishonored. The other link doesn't seen to work.

5) A dying universe that was going to disappear by itself without Uthana, i seriously doubt such feat can be considered trully Universal+.
 
Stefano4444 said:
1) Can you explicitly prove that Odin was more powerful than Thor even when amped by the belt of power? Or that the difference of strength was as still as massive as normally? Is not like Thor cannot reach Skyfather level with the right amps, after all he did defeat Glory (who was as powerful as a Skyfather) by fusing his soul as Donald Blake with Jane Foster.
Feats, Odin has feats which are a lot better than Thor with any amp has ever done.

Anyway, in all circumstances Thor was only able to made small cracks and holes in the Celestial's armor, nothing indicate that the Celestial was been harmed, so his examples cannot be used to disprove the validity of the fight between the 3 Skyfather (Odin, Zeus and Vishnu) again Exitar, as well as Odin + Destroyer Armor again the Celestials.

The Blasts of those 3 SkyFathers didn't even brought a scratch on Arishem but Thor cracked Exitar's head and Exitar is as powerful as the entire 4th host combined. That is definitely PIS.

2) Ok, even if Galactus and Odin are equal in power, this is only in the case of a Moderately Fed Galactus (which had mostly Multi-Galactic and Universal feats), not Fully Fed Galactus.

Fully Fed Galactus never existed and will never exist

3) Aside the fact that he had BFR the Eternal Flame, the Eternal Flame had the power to destroy all Nine Worlds at once only during the Everything Burns series, where it was amped by the energy collected by the Manchester Gods from all the Nine Worlds.

Odin manipulated that Flame, he didn't BFRed that flame.

.4) Yggdrasil be infinite doesn't mean it must have infinite space-time, this could also means infinite 3d space as well like the Void from Dishonored. The other link doesn't seen to work.

Yggradasil spans Space-Time (as I posted above) Space-Time are Infinite. Yggradasil contains 9 INFINITE Universes and Universes are 4D due to Time. So, it is definitely above 3D

5) A dying universe that was going to disappear by itself without Uthana, i seriously doubt such feat can be considered trully Universal+.

Uthana was powering that infinite universe, so he must have infinite power. Not to mention, Every Universe in Marvel is infinite/boundless. This makes all 9 Realms Infinite in size and also makes Uthana's Universe Infinite too
Click to expand...
 
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