Zelda tiering and scaling revisions

[Cyberblader90]

does the link to the past manga have major contradictions?

 

[Chariot190]

are we sure?

Unironically not even a quarter as many contradictions, and they're relatively minor compared to the manga at that.
Encyclopedia can be tossed for all I care though

 

[Cyberblader90]

time we made headway:

Currently in discussion:

Dark World warped by the triforce (potentially 3-A)

Yuga reacting to light arrows (.59c)

Levia’s storm, Link clearing a storm, Faron’s flood (Currently has a recalc.)

Bombs yield (High 7-A): recalced to 8-A.

Malladus destroying the world

Hylia making an entire cloud barrier to separate the sky from the land.

Demise’s cloud formation in the final battle

where do we stand on these

 

[Theglassman12]

We’re still waiting for someone to calc the storm feats and the Malladus feat.

 

[Cyberblader90]

k what about dark world

are we treating it as hax or ap

 

[Chariot190]

Hylia making an entire cloud barrier to separate the sky from the land.

let's figure this one first. The feat itself is definitely legit, it's just a matter of calcing it.
(We could maybe even do PE on the landmasses she rose maybe?).

 

[Cyberblader90]

what do we know about the feat?

visuals or text?

 

[Chariot190]

Well, it's planetary (pretty sure you yourself actually posted scans earlier in the thread that said it covered the whole planet, at the very least the landmasses being rose up happened all over the planet going by the text).

Visuals we can get the thickness off when Link drops through the clouds, he's like a few pixel speck, alternatively we could just use average cloud thickness for the closest type the clouds resemble if size issues and discrepancy comes into play for some reason.

Idk how we'd calc it though, the method in particular is the biggest issue, this could fall under at least 3 different types of calcs off the top of my head.

 

[Chariot190]

Huh, there's actually quite a handful of "**** up the world" statements in Historia. Albeit some are vague and mean **** all on their own, but there's quite a handful and could be used to support the higher end feats.

"Ganondorf sought the Triforce that rested in the Sacred Realm, and was liable to destroy the world . . ."

"It is said that Demise, the most evil of all evil, who commands enough power to destroy the world, appears in each era and looks different to each person who sees him. His ultimate goal is to obtain the Triforce and take over the land with his demonic minions." (The most vague, could be literally just talking about his army).

"An evil weapon born of darkness that slumbers within the pyramid. It is said that no one who enters the pyramid returns alive. On the stone monument that stands beside the pyramid is written, “Does your soul cry for destruction and conquest? We grant you the power to ruin the world.”"

"The root of all evil. Wielding enough power to bring the world to ruin."

"The Dark Sequel to Ocarina of Time
In a continuation of the story of Ocarina of Time, Link had three days to stop the moon from falling and destroying everything."(Just another Moon drop statement).

Among others.

 

[Cyberblader90]

ive seen alot interpretations to say this means destroy the universe because "parallel worlds" and what not

 

[Chariot190]

It's clearly world in the context of like, "the world of hyrule", "the surface world", etc.
Sometimes world is used for that, but a handful of those aren't that.

 

[Armorchompy]

still disagree with 8-A bombs and sol light arrows btw

 

[Theglassman12]

So is there a recalc we can use for the bombs?

 

[Armorchompy]

Meh, if you don't use the map-scaling method that led to 8-A I doubt you're getting anything that gets past tier 9, though I'm working off memory here.

 

[Chariot190]

So is there a recalc we can use for the bombs?

tbh idk if we should even bother, the OOT bombs aren't gonna hit above 8-C+ taking the size at face value. Anyone who scales off the bombs has better shit to scale off I'm pretty sure.

 

[Theglassman12]

Just any tier that the low tier characters can scale off of is fine by me.

 

[Phantom_Falcon]

let's figure this one first. The feat itself is definitely legit, it's just a matter of calcing it.
(We could maybe even do PE on the landmasses she rose maybe?).

I actually have a way to calc it, though it’d require map scaling. Are we okay with that or do we propose alternative methods

 

[Lgamer099_99]

Should we also calc Hylia splitting the earth (skyloft) in the SS manga?

 

[Chariot190]

Should we also calc Hylia splitting the earth (skyloft) in the SS manga?

Yes, but not from that. That's apart of a larger feat, that being her uprooting chunks of land all across the world to lift into the sky. I think PE would be a viable method to calc that with.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Igos du Ikana still has his feat of reacting to natural sunlight.

 

[Cyberblader90]

I actually have a way to calc it, though it’d require map scaling. Are we okay with that or do we propose alternative methods

which map

 

[Cyberblader90]

Igos du Ikana still has his feat of reacting to natural sunlight.

This?

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Technically he is dodging links movements not the light itself

 

[Armorchompy]

Relativistic cats for chasing a laser pointer

Also it could be aimodging anyway

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

This?

If you time it perfectly you can get him to immediately react and then frame count.

 

[Armorchompy]

... Eh. Feels like abusing game mechanics at this point. Besides one might still say that the speed Link raises his shield at is slow enough for Igos to react, and that he's reacting to that and not the sunlight itself.

 

[Chariot190]

... Eh. Feels like abusing game mechanics at this point. Besides one might still say that the speed Link raises his shield at is slow enough for Igos to react, and that he's reacting to that and not the sunlight itself.

I wouldn't call it game mechanics, it's a scripted sequence that Igos will always do in order to avoid the light. Though It's also obviously not FTL either, or even SOL, he has way less distance to cover compared to the light. We could just calc it, it wouldn't be FTL, but I could see it being low rel. (Which is oddly consistent with a few other feats from the 64 games).

 

[Armorchompy]

Eh, still doesn't address the possibility of him reacting to Link's shield movement instead of the light itself.

 

[Chariot190]

Eh, still doesn't address the possibility of him reacting to Link's shield movement instead of the light itself.

We just wouldn't factor that in, merely start the calc after Link himself is done moving, not while he's moving it

 

[Armorchompy]

But Igos could still be reacting to Link's movement instead. If you don't factor that in, you're ignoring part of the feat.

 

[Chariot190]

Not quite.
If Igos only starts moving after Link himself had already got his shield into position and the light is already bouncing off it and then Igos raises his shield, well that's the feat, how fast his arms moved in comparison to the distance the light is from him.

You're saying he could have done that or followed Link's movement, but we don't know, but what we can do is simply calc what we see, and Igos only actually blocks after Link has stopped moving, he isn't blocking ahead of time or at the same time.

 

[Chariot190]

Though actually finding footage to use is a pain in the ass, I've gone through no less then 15 videos (Of 3D), and none really show this off, I mean I guess they're walkthroughs so they aren't gonna show **** ups, but still.

Cal if you're there supply viable sauce, you brought this up in the first place

 

[Armorchompy]

Not quite.
If Igos only starts moving after Link himself had already got his shield into position and the light is already bouncing off it and then Igos raises his shield, well that's the feat, how fast his arms moved in comparison to the distance the light is from him.

You're saying he could have done that or followed Link's movement, but we don't know, but what we can do is simply calc what we see, and Igos only actually blocks after Link has stopped moving, he isn't blocking ahead of time or at the same time.

If we're going by what we actually see then Igos is actually hit by the light for a split second before raising his shield, so it's not a feat at all.

 

[Chariot190]

If we're going by what we actually see then Igos is actually hit by the light for a split second before raising his shield, so it's not a feat at all.

Not in Majora's Mask 3D

 

[Cyberblader90]

light frames

docs.google.com

Anyways, this is the frame by frame sequence of him blocking
As you can see, he’s already moving his shield into position before the light shines at him, and you can see the light’s impact on the second to last frame of him dodging before his shield is fully raised
Which would suggest he’s aim blocking it, as the light is already bouncing off his shield and it’s already in position

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean it can't really be neither of those since the light doesn't have a travel speed in-game so Igos either immediately switches to a shielding pose like Link does, which would imply both of them have more animation than the game shows, or Igos does get hit by the light a lil bit.

 

[Chariot190]

I mean, if I was comfortable using that video, I wouldn't be looking through dozens of them to find footage from 3D.

 

[Chariot190]

**** Igos, looking through I think I found something a bit more interesting.


Link with Bunny Hood moving at speeds comparable to light bouncing off his shield.



Also gets launched out of the light and the light that was bouncing off his shield takes about the same length of time to finishing reflecting and vanish as it takes him to eat dirt.


First batch is every single frame. (I think the final frame got uploaded as the second picture so just imagine that happened last).
Second batch I got tired of saving every frame so it's just the first, middle and last frame to paint a picture.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be seeing in the first one?

 

[Chariot190]

Link runs through the sunlight pouring in through the window, the sunlight bounces off his mirror shield while doing so, but we can very clearly see Link move in conjunction with the reflected sunlight.