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I swear the way you guys debate, it's like talking to mosquitoes fr... Never ever seen you guys discuss with good faith besides Kazuma_kuwabara (ops sorry for the @ šŸ™ˆ)
 
the question would be more... Why would mana based ability that acts the same as without mana be any different when the both act the same? (you understand what I mean, if you don't... Your biased.)
By this logic, let's have Yuno powernull devil fruits.
You said reaction time... reaction time comes from your Perception.. Haki sharpens all of the senses anyway, to the point a child was able to react to lightning speed
Yuno has spirit Magic, which at its lowest, gave a reaction speed great enough to see someone comparable in speed move at snail's pace.

He also has Spirit Dive, comparable to Asta's black form amp, that could statue an attack that previously blitzed him.

His AD alone was enough to outspeed Lucius of all people. And he still has other speed amps in reserve like Spirit of Zephyr, Mana Zone and specifically Mana Zone: Spirit hushed dance.

Law does NOT have what it takes to keep up with Yuno, and much less do better than Lucius did.
Haki negs abilities, unless the magic doesn't function any differently to what the ability literally does... It gets blocked.
I'm not even gonna entertain that.
A completely different precog to obs Haki. Yes I will unless you actually specify

Obs Haki does the same + has precog. A precog that's always active and will know your future exactly when you'll do it and where instantly
It being always active doesn't mean Yuno can't do the same thing he did to Lucius.

I'm pretty sure Lucius's is not only always active as well, but can straight up see the entire future which automatically makes it more impressive than just seeing seconds ahead like Law does.
Because it's a nonphysical space that's attached to his body... Even if let's say yuno somehow teleports out of it, law can increase it's size from a distance
1040-010.png
According to the same Calc you've sent before, that room is barely above 200km in diameter at best.

Neverland's radius, I said radius, even at its lowest, is bigger than that.

I'm not gonna lie, I just think the problem is with you. You're the only one still arguing about Yuno not teleporting out of the room, when the mf has far greater range than even Law's biggest room.

Realize that you even tried to put the range of his huge room domain comparable to that of his sword coated with room, like, what are we doing here.

So either let's just agree to disagree or let this thread die.
 
the question would be more... Why would mana based ability that acts the same as without mana be any different when the both act the same? (you understand what I mean, if you don't... Your biased.)

Are you trolling?

Or is this a real question

You said reaction time... reaction time comes from your Perception.. Haki sharpens all of the senses anyway, to the point a child was able to react to lightning speed

Perception ā‰  reaction time. This is physiologically incorrect lmao.

What kind of haki and whoā€™s the child.

Haki negs abilities, unless the magic doesn't function any differently to what the ability literally does... It gets blocked.

Haki negs devil fruit from using its abilities.


You canā€™t twist this logic for convenience.

Obs Haki does the same + has precog. A precog that's always active and will know your future exactly when you'll do it and where instantly

Not it doesnā€™t do the same, itā€™s just precog being an upgrade of enhanced senses which is a basic thing for all wind mages in BC. Obviously enhanced senses alone isnt enough so stop the fallacious attempts to link reaction times, especially when no other wind mages can do what Yuno does to deal with precog.

And Lucius precog is intrinsically the same as what you just said about obs haki.

A completely different precog to obs Haki. Yes I will unless you actually specify

Irrelevant, itā€™s intrinsically the same I.e. Knowing the next moves.

Because it's a nonphysical space that's attached to his body... Even if let's say yuno somehow teleports out of it, law can increase it's size from a distance

I found out R-Room needs to be thrown at the object before it ā€œattachesā€. Thatā€™s obviously not gonna work, Yuno easily evades.



I share the same views as epsilon. Although Iā€™m not gonna compromise on equalizing devil fruit and magic cuz that goes against SBA. @MonkeyOfLife just has flat out has faulty logic in this case.
 
I simply am not wrong.

If I truly was, I would say I was wrong but Iā€™m not šŸµ, I donā€™t have time to waste time on this match but most of what you guys have said isā€¦ yuno easily evades, yuno easily teleports yuno easilyā€¦ without ever saying an actual valid wincon for him to winā€¦ as Iā€™ve said before, law can keep room open at all timesā€¦ if he teleports back (idk how the f he would begin to even know he needs to teleport hundreds of km away) heā€™ll instantly get sensed and know what yuno will do, instantly countering yuno with an instant space slash. Yuno has no understanding of laws abilities who also uses the abilities mentioned in the beginning of the fight in character, law would simply cut him before he even knew what happened and that outcome becomes even a higher chance, when law knows yuno moves beforehand who can also teleport
I found out R-Room needs to be thrown at the object before it ā€œattachesā€. Thatā€™s obviously not gonna work, Yuno easily evades.
Quick response
Law can create a small room (or just attack with anything), whenever yuno is about to teleport out of the way, law knows where yuno will teleport to and send the ROOM at that location beforehand, which ends up getting him caught in a space slash

Someone like Blackbeard who always uses haki often, wasnā€™t able to know what happened when law cut his flying horse with RE ROOM because of having no information that he could do that, same would happen here without yuno having any defense/resistance against a space slash


The only way I can see yuno winning via the argument of the opposition is if he knows he has to randomly teleport without law also going after him and then getting stronger/faster to the point lawā€™s physical movements is insanely slower and finds an oppening (btw does yuno even have any one shot abilities?)


Why the f am I even commenting, Iā€™ll be the one losing if Iā€™m going to debate with people like thatā€¦ the ones who explains nothing and argues out of literal bad faith, I can go read all of yunos fights andā€¦ now Iā€™m just ranting bye, I need to sleepā€¦ but what Iā€™m saying is true tho, if I found my bro talking ok nevermind šŸ˜“šŸ¦§ just find life in a good way. (Bro my mind is insanely stubborn šŸ™‰ the only reason Iā€™m still commenting is because I canā€™t sleepā€¦ bye šŸ˜…)
 
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I simply am not wrong.

If I truly was, I would say I was wrong but Iā€™m not šŸµ, I donā€™t have time to waste time on this match but most of what you guys have said isā€¦ yuno easily evades, yuno easily teleports yuno easilyā€¦ without ever saying an actual valid wincon for him to winā€¦ as Iā€™ve said before, law can keep room open at all timesā€¦ if he teleports back (idk how the f he would begin to even know he needs to teleport hundreds of km away) heā€™ll instantly get sensed and know what yuno will do, instantly countering yuno with an instant space slash. Yuno has no understanding of laws abilities who also uses the abilities mentioned in the beginning of the fight in character, law would simply cut him before he even knew what happened and that outcome becomes even a higher chance, when law knows yuno moves beforehand who can also teleport

Quick response
Law can create a small room (or just attack with anything), whenever yuno is about to teleport out of the way, law knows where yuno will teleport to and send the ROOM at that location beforehand, which ends up getting him caught in a space slash

Someone like Blackbeard who always uses haki often, wasnā€™t able to know what happened when law cut his flying horse with RE ROOM because of having no information that he could do that, same would happen here without yuno having any defense/resistance against a space slash


The only way I can see yuno winning via the argument of the opposition is if he knows he has to randomly teleport without law also going after him and then getting stronger/faster to the point lawā€™s physical movements is insanely slower and finds an oppening (btw does yuno even have any one shot abilities?)


Why the f am I even commenting, Iā€™ll be the one losing if Iā€™m going to debate with people like thatā€¦ the ones who explains nothing and argues out of literal bad faith, I can go read all of yunos fights andā€¦ now Iā€™m just ranting bye, I need to sleepā€¦ but what Iā€™m saying is true tho, if I found my bro talking ok nevermind šŸ˜“šŸ¦§ just find life in a good way. (Bro my mind is insanely stubborn šŸ™‰ the only reason Iā€™m still commenting is because I canā€™t sleepā€¦ bye šŸ˜…)
Are you ok man?
 
Yuno has spirit Magic, which at its lowest, gave a reaction speed great enough to see someone comparable in speed move at snail's pace.
the lowest that obs Haki enhances ones senses was for a kid being able to react to the movements of Enel with no training whatsoever, just by unlocking obs haki
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She possesses a powerful ā€œheart rope,ā€ and even the warriors of Chandia rely on her excellent sensory perception. In the survival battle, she guided Luffy, who was working with her, to the exact location of Enel.
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Law's obs Haki is way superior to even her, the amp would be more than thousands of times better senses if not way higher as lightning moving through conducter is around 90% the speed of light
By this logic, let's have Yuno powernull devil fruits.
That doesn't make sense... But if he does resist fire manipulation... He would resist fire manipulation from devil fruits... They are the same function

Would be insanely unfair to say... Haki won't resist the fire manipulation of Asta or anyone in bc who uses fire just because it came from magic or anything. They still function and act the same.
I'm not even gonna entertain that.
It's just true...
It being always active doesn't mean Yuno can't do the same thing he did to Lucius.

I'm pretty sure Lucius's is not only always active as well, but can straight up see the entire future which automatically makes it more impressive than just seeing seconds ahead like Law does.
That can be worse... Obs Haki is meant for battle and unlocks in battles, "normal" seeing the future has many disadvantages like not knowing exactly when in the future that will happen, or exactly knowing fully where. They also need to take time to see the future and the proceed... So unless you guys specify why that situation would somehow work against law's precog the same way which is instantly knowing when and where in the future you'll be with your every move, then it's just total bs and isn't comparable
According to the same Calc you've sent before, that room is barely above 200km in diameter at best.
latest

Onigashima = 390px (57103.142857143 m)

ROOM radius = 895px (131044.39194139 m)

ROOM diameter = 131044.39194139 x 2 = 262088.783883 m (262 km)

Nearly 300 km.. And that's not law's max, that's RE ROOM that automatically expanded from the big explosion, and also is an awakening technique that taxes the body way more... He's normal room can be way bigger if he wanted to (should definitely be at least the size if law's Puncture Wille)

I don't see how this would be bad?
Neverland's radius, I said radius, even at its lowest, is bigger than that.
What's the radius...?
I'm not gonna lie, I just think the problem is with you. You're the only one still arguing about Yuno not teleporting out of the room, when the mf has far greater range than even Law's biggest room.
You've literally not even giving the range and I've also literally said that law has counters for if yuno actually were to teleport away for no reason at all.
Realize that you even tried to put the range of his huge room domain comparable to that of his sword coated with room, like, what are we doing here.
I never did... But it definitely should be... As awakening techniques are far taxing than regular ROOMs
So either let's just agree to disagree or let this thread die.
Well it isn't me that started commenting, the only reason I replied was because people were being disingenuous and not fair with their votes basically just naming Yuno's abilities and ignoring everything about law's abilities

Haki negs devil fruit from using its abilities.


You canā€™t twist this logic for convenience.
This is also literally not true... That's what the Sea does... It weakens the df user... Even the sea doesn't actually negate df from using their abilities

Haki blocks abilities and negates the effects of the abilities... They don't weaken or outright stop df users from using their abilities

The abilities from df are the same ability as everything else, hence why Sanji can use his haki can resist his own flame's temperature

The only one not following logic would be you.
 
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I wish my mind would automatically respond to the things I'm reading... Having to type everything especially with mouse is annoying af
 
I simply am not wrong.

If I truly was, I would say I was wrong but Iā€™m not šŸµ, I donā€™t have time to waste time on this match but most of what you guys have said isā€¦ yuno easily evades, yuno easily teleports yuno easilyā€¦ without ever saying an actual valid wincon for him to winā€¦ as Iā€™ve said before, law can keep room open at all timesā€¦ if he teleports back (idk how the f he would begin to even know he needs to teleport hundreds of km away) heā€™ll instantly get sensed and know what yuno will do, instantly countering yuno with an instant space slash. Yuno has no understanding of laws abilities who also uses the abilities mentioned in the beginning of the fight in character, law would simply cut him before he even knew what happened and that outcome becomes even a higher chance, when law knows yuno moves beforehand who can also teleport
The whole point of this range argument is because both can one shot the other, Law can attack from anywhere within his room and Yuno can do the same within his Mana Zone. This is something we've said before.

Yuno's AP is around five times stronger than Law's AP at it's highest. He doesn't even need his Deconstruction to kill, his AP advantage is enough.

Now, Law's wincon requires to not only
- expand his room without Yuno noticing, but also
-predict his teleportation with precog (even though, I've said it before, YUNO'S MANA ZONE STOPS TIME)
-and ā€Šsomehow catch him with re-room when Yuno can teleport far beyond any of Law room techniques (except the long ahh sword).

Meanwhile, Yuno just needs to attack, and he can do so from anywhere within Mana Zone. Law won't be able to predict it because he hasn't shown to be able to predict stuff when time is stopped.

And honestly instead of "passively crashing out" being these strikethrough messages, you can... idk, ask us or check for yourself? Name ONE thing we've said that was either in bad faith or straight up not on his profile?

You want a proof Yuno can stop time? Read his Post-Timeskip profile

You want the AP difference? Same thing

You want the size of the Clover Kingdom? Check the Calc section of the verse page

Yuno sensing Spatial attacks that not even Captain level mages with crazy high Magic Sensing could? I can pull you the very scan in his profile...

Yuno's speed amps? They are all listed across his 2 profiles.

It's honestly sad to hear it when not one of us even said this about you.
Even when you said Cosmic Awareness would be needed to sense Room's expansion
Or about Law being able to predict Yuno (even though we never saw him predict someone from 100s of miles away, let alone when time is stopped)
Or even argued he would resist Yuno's Mana Zone abilities, which are completely different from Devil Fruits...
Let's not forget it's a silly fictional powerscaling website, we don't need to gain sleep deprivation over this.


Anyways, I'm voting Yuno as well.
Unfollowing now.
 
And honestly instead of "passively crashing out" being these strikethrough messages, you can... idk, ask us or check for yourself? Name ONE thing we've said that was either in bad faith or straight up not on his profile?
And literally the ones I've said/responded to

But Here...
According to the same Calc you've sent before, that room is barely above 200km in diameter at best.

Neverland's radius, I said radius, even at its lowest, is bigger than that.

I'm not gonna lie, I just think the problem is with you. You're the only one still arguing about Yuno not teleporting out of the room, when the mf has far greater range than even Law's biggest room.
Doesn't actually state the size just says it's bigger and downplays ROOM size while also saying it's law's max
Not it doesnā€™t do the same, itā€™s just precog being an upgrade of enhanced senses which is a basic thing for all wind mages in BC. Obviously enhanced senses alone isnt enough so stop the fallacious attempts to link reaction times, especially when no other wind mages can do what Yuno does to deal with precog.

And Lucius precog is intrinsically the same as what you just said about obs haki.


Irrelevant, itā€™s intrinsically the same I.e. Knowing the next moves.
Literally just a lie and never actually say how yuno dealt with future sight and how that situation would work against law's obs Haki.

Voting based on just stating yuno's abilities and what he can do
Iā€™m voting Yuno based on multiple stat amps, mana zone (casts attacks at point blank and boosted speeds so Yuno can actually attack while room expands), higher reaction time to keep up with precognition via spam teleportation to evade starting moves and initial room attacks, Reactive Power Level (AP, Speed; enough to blitz precognition in a short amount of time) to easily deal with latter room attacks.

Star magic range: far greater than diameter of capital (which is at least 300km) in radius when arranged circular. {Epsi Jack calc <center to nobel realm / 2 to estimate capital size>}. Almost 2000km when arranged linearly. {circumference}. Giving Yuno plenty of room to spam teleport or teleport Law.
+ more but you get the idea

Yuno sensing Spatial attacks that not even Captain level mages with crazy high Magic Sensing could? I can pull you the very scan in his profile...
ROOM isn't a spatial attack, he has no reason to teleport away even if he did... Law would know he would've teleported away, which would just change his starting tactic to something else that would counter yuno's teleportation
It's honestly sad to hear it when not one of us even said this about you.
It's way worse to be passive aggressive or arguing with someone out of bad faith... Not just for wasting time but also in my view attacking the whole vs match, it starts being way more than just friendly match up discussion

Even when you said Cosmic Awareness would be needed to sense Room's expansion
Which is literally true...?
Or about Law being able to predict Yuno (even though we never saw him predict someone from 100s of miles away, let alone when time is stopped)
Law knows where he'll teleport to... After he's teleported 500km out, law won't be able to sense him or precog him... Which is literally why I said this
if he teleports back (idk how the f he would begin to even know he needs to teleport hundreds of km away) heā€™ll instantly get sensed and know what yuno will do, instantly countering yuno with an instant space slash.
Or even argued he would resist Yuno's Mana Zone abilities, which are completely different from Devil Fruits...
... You saying they are completely different from df's instead of talking about the ability is the bad faith I'm talking about...

Fire from chakra, fire from flame thrower, fire from magic... Unless actually specified they are different, they work the same. That's how things work and has always worked

You can suggest or say why it would be different but saying it doesn't matter just because the ability comes from something else makes absolutely no sense
Let's not forget it's a silly fictional powerscaling website, we don't need to gain sleep deprivation over this.
It was from work and bad chips especially šŸ™ˆ, and yee it is a silly fictional powerscaling match up... Which is how it looks absolutely insane and sad to me when I see others just lie or argue out of bias, I only said what I said so that someone might realize what they are doing if they were arguing out of bad faith, intentional or not
Now, Law's wincon requires to not only
- expand his room without Yuno noticing, but also
He can notice ROOM all he wants... Doesn't mean he'll know it's mechanics
-predict his teleportation with precog (even though, I've said it before, YUNO'S MANA ZONE STOPS TIME)
You've yet to actually explain the ability for how far or is it universal?

This also wouldn't matter for instant attacks which he has no knowledge off
-and ā€Šsomehow catch him with re-room when Yuno can teleport far beyond any of Law room techniques (except the long ahh sword).
He has no reason at all to teleport far beyond where law is... Just the current existing ROOM, which wouldn't be far beyond and would then be countered as law knows where he'll teleport to beforehand

Law won't be able to predict it because he hasn't shown to be able to predict stuff when time is stopped.
He knows the future, he'll know yuno will stop time... Or what's this supposed to mean?

Sure when time is stopped he won't precog..? his haki also works unconsciously/subconsciously tho... Something like his arm haki will activate even if law's "body" is time stopped, law can counter his timestop before he uses it and change the future... I still don't know the full mechanics of yuno's time stop

Plus haki blocks foxy's fruit šŸ˜“ jk jk

This is enough texting for a post
 
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Votes:

Yuno: Me as the donkey, epsilon, arnold, speedster and king

Law: Monkey, arkenis, fallen

Goku speedblitz both, if Speed equalized, Law stomps Goku unless goku blows the planet šŸ‘ļø
 


without ever saying an actual valid wincon for him to win
Did you miss the part where we said Yuno can fire attacks at point blank range while being far away? (mana zone)

He just need to keep doing that while getting stronger before one shotting Law eventually in a short time (he already has the AP advantage)

Someone like Blackbeard who always uses haki often, wasnā€™t able to know what happened when law cut his flying horse with RE ROOM because of having no information that he could do that, same would happen here without yuno having any defense/resistance against a space slash

Yuno ā‰  Black beard when it comes to reacting to threats without info. Yuno literally has instinctive reactions.

Literally just a lie and never actually say how yuno dealt with future sight and how that situation would work against law's obs Haki.

Voting based on just stating yuno's abilities and what he can do

???

Itā€™s been mentioned many times in this thread that Yuno has dealt with time manipulation based precog before with simple speed amps, reaction timing for teleportation spamming and Reactive Power Level on speed and power. Itā€™s not a difficult concept to understand, Yuno makes a move, you predict it and Yuno reacts instantly to teleport again.
 
Alright you know what.

Laws precog is simply not better than Lucius first of all.

Secondly, Yuno being capable of keeping up eventually outspeeding Luciusā€™ precog shows that Yuno will easily evade Lawā€™s room as soon as he sees it expand and evade lawā€™s R-Room since itā€™s still a projectile that needs to hit Yuno for it to take effect.

White beard not paying attention doesnā€™t matter to me. Yuno is not White Beard. This is the same precog from Lucius that is better than Julius that is better than Yamiā€™s mana zone + instinctive reactions + precogā€¦ just instinctive reaction and precog alone from Yami could block danmaku like itā€™s nothing much less Mana Zone added to the mix. Yet Time based precog from Lucius is obviously far above it. Yunoā€™s reaction time is just that fast and it keeps getting faster to keep up and eventually blitz time based precog users.

With mana zone, Yuno can attack from anywhere without going close to Law nor his room. In no time Law just gets one shot. The outcome of this match should be simple.

So Iā€™m not really in the mood to go back on forth.
 
Not only can Yuno stop time, but Laws precog isn't even superior to Lucius's which Yuno outsped. Not to mention it's not even on his profile.

Room is also an attack that expands, which Yuno could easily dodge.

I'm voting Yuno.
 
Wtf are these precog comparsionsā€¦ someone who can see 5 seconds in the future can have 100x better precog than someone who can see 5 hours into the futureā€¦ it all comes down to the mechanics and information that they get.

Yuno is not ā€œoutspeedingā€ the precog of obs haki, they only thing he can do tho is blitz law himself soo much to where his body isnā€™t moving and standing in placeā€¦ that happens to observation haki users and can still read and precog them.

Also stop with the whole yuno has instinctive reactions, law has that too
 
Wtf are these precog comparsionsā€¦ someone who can see 5 seconds in the future can have 100x better precog than someone who can see 5 hours into the futureā€¦ it all comes down to the mechanics and information that they get.

Yuno is not ā€œoutspeedingā€ the precog of obs haki, they only thing he can do tho is blitz law himself soo much to where his body isnā€™t moving and standing in placeā€¦ that happens to observation haki users and can still read and precog them.

Also stop with the whole yuno has instinctive reactions, law has that too

Thatā€™s.. what outspeeding precog meansā€¦

I.e. If you know someoneā€™s next move but canā€™t physically react to evade the futureā€¦. Or canā€™t tag them even if you react before them.

And your yap about precog comparisons is a non point especially when we both know Law canā€™t literally see the future like Lucius.
 
Hmm, I wonder who has the better precog... the guy who at best only sees seconds into one possible future...or the guy who can see that of 20,000 alternative worlds, even the future of places thousands of miles away and can see at least a good decade into it.

The fact this is even up for debate is unbelievable, unless there's a hidden factor some of you guys know that I don't

and why do I keep receiving them notifications?
 
Law's precog is objectively inferior to Lucius' so I don't get what Monkey is trying to say, it's such a nonargument because it's literally irrelevant here.

He doesn't even have true future sight lmfao

Yuno FRA
 
Yee itā€™s simply a you problem if you guys canā€™t understand how just seeing more into the future doesnā€™t mean you have ā€œbetterā€ precog

More potent maybe but thatā€™s all. Thereā€™s a reason why some future sight are non combat applicableā€¦ obs haki is especially used for battle and gained/perfected trough battles

All precogs can have different disadvantages

Whenever if I get into bcā€¦ I can tell you guys the differences.

But Iā€™m going to assume the future sight of the one in bc isnā€™t anything like the one in OP thatā€™s strictly for battles
 
Yee itā€™s simply a you problem if you guys canā€™t understand how just seeing more into the future doesnā€™t mean you have ā€œbetterā€ precog

More potent maybe but thatā€™s all. Thereā€™s a reason why some future sight are non combat applicableā€¦ obs haki is especially used for battle and gained/perfected trough battles

All precogs can have different disadvantages

Whenever if I get into bcā€¦ I can tell you guys the differences.

But Iā€™m going to assume the future sight of the one in bc isnā€™t anything like the one in OP thatā€™s strictly for battles
More potent means it is better tho šŸ™ˆšŸ™‰
 
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