Yukari Yukamo's Boundary Manipulation

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So having observed the massive popularity of this character, as she seems to be like the go to character in tier 6, and also seeing that yukari has wins against numerous reality warpers and even causality manipulators, i have become curious about her ability. Her ability seems so malleable that in any match you could just say "well yukari wins via boundary manipulation, she manipulates the boundary between this and that" .

That would obviously be an nlf, so i am curious what feats exactly does she have that allows her to beat people who can reality warp and manipulate causality, now i am not trying to downplay the character but her profile doesn't really give me much enough on what feats she has performed with her ability, it does give a weakness of not being capable of creating gaps to the moon. I just want to know how far exactly does her ability extend, has she manipulated the boundary between cause and effect? existence and non-existence? probability and certainty? Basically what exactly has her ability been shown to do and what would be wank/ an nlf.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

*stretches fingers*

Give me a moment

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

A majority of it stems from her spellcards so gonna link that and try to see which one seems the most likely. However I think the reason why boundary manipulation can win against that is because well it is in a way reality warping.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo#Spell_Cards

Just for general helping. Now for some I can't guarantee their absolution but you are asking to what possible limits she might have so going to go for that.


Ability extensio

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/The_Grimoire_of_Marisa/Yukari_Yakumo's_Spell_Cards

Bounded Field "Curse of Dreams and Reality"

In here danmaku is used from an eternally expanding dream and shrinking reality. Considering how this stems from the idea that Yukari can enter dreams and stories, it's not shocking to see her bringing something out of it. So making dreams come true?

Application of Dream and stories, the reality warping effect?

The other abilities there seem iffy. Creating a perpetual machine and the wave of particle doesn't really bring anything new to the table.


https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Perfect_Memento_in_Strict_Sense/Yukari_Yakumo

Now on Akyuu's words, we know the information that she's not always reliable... However considering the scale of Yukari's power alongside numerous sources backing her up as some fearsome deadly that should NEVER be faced in a non-danmaku match or to avoid even, a majority of these seems likely cases.

Þâ¢Õèø	Ability
ÕóâþòîÒéƵôìÒéïÞâ¢ÕèøÒü»ÒÇüÕà¿ÒüªÒü«þë®õ║ïÒéƵá╣Õ║òÒüïÒéëÞªåÒüÖµüÉÒéìÒüùÒüäÞâ¢ÕèøÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	The ability to manipulate boundaries is a terrifying ability capable of fundamentally undermining reality.
þƒÑÒüúÒüªÒü«ÚÇÜÒéèÒÇüþë®Òü«Õ¡ÿÕ£¿Òü»ÕóâþòîÒüîÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüÖÒéïõ║ïÒüºµêÉÒéèþ½ïÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇé	As far as we know, everything is built upon the existence of boundaries.
µ░┤ÚØóÒüîþäíÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüµ╣ûÒü»Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé	If there was no water surface, there could be no lake.
þ¿£þÀÜÒüîþäíÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÕ▒▒Òééþ®║ÒééÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÒüáÒéìÒüåÒÇé	If there was no sky line, neither mountain nor sky could exist.
Õ╣╗µâ│ÚâÀÒü«ÕñºþÁÉþòîÒüîþäíÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÕ╣╗µâ│ÚâÀÒééÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüäÒÇé	Were it not for the Great Barrier, even Gensokyo itself wouldn't exist.
ÒééÒüùÕà¿ÒüªÒü«þë®Òü½ÕóâþòîÒüîÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒüùÒü¬ÒüæÒéîÒü░ÒÇüÒüØÒéîÒü»õ©ÇÒüñÒü«ÕñºÒüìÒü¬þë®ÒüºÒüéÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåõ║ïÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	If there were no boundaries, everything would probably exist as a single enormous object.
ÒüñÒü¥ÒéèÒÇüÕóâþòîÒéƵôìÒéïÞâ¢ÕèøÒü»ÒÇüÞ½ûþÉåþÜäÕëÁÚÇáÒü¿þá┤ÕúèÒü«Þâ¢ÕèøÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	Thus, the ability to manipulate boundaries is by logic an ability of creation and destruction.
Þ½ûþÉåþÜäÒü½µû░ÒüùÒüäÕ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒéÆÕëÁÚÇáÒüùÒÇüÞ½ûþÉåþÜäÒü½Õ¡ÿÕ£¿ÒéÆÕɪիÜÒüÖÒéïÒÇé	It essentially creates a new existence, or conversely rejects some existence.
ÕªûµÇ¬ÒüîµîüÒüñÞâ¢ÕèøÒü«õ©¡ÒüºÒééþÑ×µºÿÒü«ÕèøÒü½Õî╣µòÁÒüÖÒéïÒüºÒüéÒéìÒüåÒÇüµ£ÇÒééÕì▒ÚÖ║Òü¬Þâ¢ÕèøÒü«õ©ÇÒüñÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	Among the abilities youkai are known to possess, this is one of the most dangerous, being comparable even to the power of gods.
Òü¥ÒüƒÒÇüþ®║ÚûôÒü«ÞúéÒüæþø«ÒüïÒéëÞç¬Õ£¿Òü½õ¢òÕçªÒü½ÒüºÒééþ×¼µÖéÒü½þº╗ÕïòÒüùÒÇüõ¢ôÒü«õ©ÇÚâ¿ÒüáÒüæÒéÆÕêÑÒü«Õá┤µëÇÒü½þº╗ÕïòÒüòÒüøÒéïõ║ïÒééÕç║µØÑÒéïÒÇé	She is also capable of moving to an entirely separate location between gaps in space, whether it be her entire body or only a part of her.
þë®þÉåþÜäÒü¬þ®║ÚûôÒüáÒüæÒüºÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüþÁÁÒü«õ©¡ÒéäÕñóÒü«õ©¡ÒÇüþë®Þ¬×Òü«õ©¡þ¡ëÒü½Òééþº╗ÕïòÒüÖÒéïõ║ïÒééÕç║µØÑÒéïÒü¿ÒüäÒüåÒÇé	It's said that this ability is not limited to physical space, but also applies to pictures, others' dreams, and even stories.

This is the part where BM really shines. Boundary Manipulation pretty much judges everything in existence. It's the reason why everything is separate. It's what dictate the differences of something from something else. Which is why I argued the case that BM has a sense of Limited Conceptual manipulation since it can lead to absolute Destruction or the creation of something new.

And this is what leads to the dimensional ability of 2-D. If she can become 2-D by entering a story, a dream or a picture, why can't she do the same to the enemy and instantly gap them away? Another feat is from what Andy has given is this. What was once in Meiling's dream came true in reality. Of course we can argue that this is a spellcard but where the hell did that even come from if that was the case? So this is another application of making dreams come true (Man I wish I have that power)

And other official things she did, quoting it

• Manipulation of the boundary between lies and truth of the moo reflected on the lake surface for an invasion of the surface of the moon from Gensokyo (Lunar War, Silent Sinner in Blue)
• By the boundary between reality and fantasy, she isolated Gensokyo from the outside world, participating in the Great Hakurei Barrier Project (The Great Barrier Disturbance)
• Upon Yuyuko's request, repairing the border between the present world and the Netherworld, i.e the boundary between life and death that has become thin (Perfect Cherry Blossom)
• Since the Great Hakurei Barrier has loosened, she returned Rinnosuke Morichika to Gensokyo who has been ejected into the outside world (Curiosities of Lotus Asia)
• Many of her Spell Cards allude to various circumstances involving boundary manipulation, such as: Barrier "Balance of Motion and Stillness", Barrier "Mesh of Light and Darkness", "Boundary of Humans and Youkai", between many others.

The conceptual stuff could be handled later since we're either trying to find out feats to back up the likeliness of her ability or what feats she already did.

For now we have

- Can cancel lllussions of a scale that's on the level of lunarians, but not their best. Backed up by easily seeing through Reimu's illusion (One of you made a thread about this) and Keine's attempt to hide history. (Supported by the fact that she ignored the illussion from the moon. Reimu might've been immune to that too but I'll have to check)

- Isolation of Gensokyo from the outside world

- Repair the realm to prevent the netherworld and the present world from being well.... broken.

- Gap someone i

- More likely feats, don't focus on these


On the other hand I believe the specialization against anti-casualty stems from the idea that she turns disbelief from the outside world and uses it to basically cause what makes Gensokyo exist. This is also what fuels the spiriting away I suppose right here . This is done so without any further manipulation so the spiriting away could've been just an effect or making things that are forgotten cease to exist exist once more. Considering how it's almost impossible to 'get out' of Gensokyo unless there are very specific conditions too. Or once it's loosened up by Reimu goofing off.


On the other hand she also has numerous means to bypass conventional durability whether by using her 2-D attack or her gap someone into two pieces by you know making a portal inside them. Which was quickly pointed out when I pointed it out in this thread . Although it makes me ask why it's not on her profile and then I realize I hadn't editted in.

On the other hand in that same thread but I'll quote it again, although at this point I'm less hesitating and more believing

[Another thing which I'm more hesitant about is that the possibility of her being able to use time travel. It's based on what I found on Maribel's profile. You may think that this might conflict with the note on Sakuya's ability claiming "You can't rewind time." But going on another time period isn't the same as that. Considering she uses paradoxes and alternate timeline to attack and mixes in past, present, and future, is it truly unbelivable to think that travelling to another time period is impossible? I mean the PC-98 has become more of a semi-canon as long as it doesn't conflict with the current era.

Time Period
Maribel is descended from a lineage which has had the ability to sense the supernatural since long ago. She herself exists in a time in the near future (when her stories are stated to take place). Yukari meanwhile has existed for at least over 1,200 years before and up to the present day (when the Touhou Project takes place).

It's confirmed that travelling through time is possible in the Touhou Project. Watatsuki no Toyohime mentions that rarely, time is one of the things that a Human can get spirited away through in Cage in Lunatic Runagate's third chapter. Maribel appears to have travelled through time on at least one occasion. In Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, there's an entry about a mysterious memo found "several hundred years ago" written by a person who believes she's wandering in the Bamboo Forest of the Lost while she's dreaming, mentioning such things as a GPS and a cell phone, and even the phrase "I'm gonna tell Renko about it when I wake up."

Going by this, Maribel was apparently herself in Gensokyo during at least two different times hundreds of years apart. In Changeability of Strange Dream, Maribel visits a scarlet mansion with a maid (presumably theScarlet Devil Mansio) at one point, and at another point gets lost in a bamboo forest (of which the events where she gets lost indicates it's the Bamboo Forest of the Lost). The memo in Perfect Memento in Strict Sense shows that the period in which she got lost was several hundreds of years before the present day, while the Scarlet Devil Mansion is known to have arrived in Gensokyo only recently.

Considering they have similar abilities, well it's an interesting thought. Yukari is one of the few who leads the Spiriting Away, taking Outsiders and all after all

So that's a potential for time travel. Because the one who manages the Spiriting Away is Yukari isn't it? Of course you can also argue that it's Maribel who has a power similar to Yukari which is developing. It already looks like Yukari's power is a much more amped up version of Maribel's anyway.


https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Maribel_Hearn#Time_Period Link to the statement in questio
]

With those feats backing up and considering the other feats and travelling into other stories and whatnot, and this is done by a character who hasn't even perfected her ability (Maribel can only see boundaries and then make use of them meanwhile Yukari can do all that pretty much manipulate them). So this is adding fuel to the idea that Yukari can time travel and backs her up on the idea that she can do more with it than just time travel, thus adding help and proof for limited conceptual manipulation above.

Edit - To further back this up, once more Maribel has succeeded on time travelling again. https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Neo-traditionalism_of_Japan/Story Izanagi Object

[

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ÒÇÇÞô«Õ¡ÉÒü»õ¢òÒéäÒéëÞêêÕÑ«ÒüùÒüªÒüäÒéïÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝ÒéÆÞª│Õ»ƒÒüùÒüƒÒÇé ÒÇÇõ¢òÒüïÒÇüõ╝èÕ╝ëÞ½¥ÒüîÕ«ƒÕ£¿……þ¡ëÒÇüÒüÂÒüñÒüÂÒüñÒü¿ÕæƒÒüäÒüªÒéïÒÇéõ¢òÒüïÒüíÒéçÒüúÒü¿ÚüáÒüÅÒü½ÞíîÒüúÒüªÒüùÒü¥ÒüúÒüƒÒéêÒüåÒüºÕ»éÒüùÒüŵÇØÒüúÒüƒÒÇé	Renko looked on as Merry was getting all excited about something. She kept on muttering things like "Izanagi was real..." on and on. It was as if Merry was going off somewhere all by herself and Renko started to feel lonely.
ÒÇÇÒüØÒüåÞ¿ÇÒüêÒü░µ£ÇÞ┐æÒÇüÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝Òü«Þâ¢ÕèøÒüîÚ½ÿÒü¥ÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéﵺÿÒü½µäƒÒüÿÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇéµ£ÇÕêØÒü«ÚáâÒü»ÒüƒÒüáõ©ìµÇØÞ¡░Òü¬õ©ûþòîÒüîÞªïÒéëÒéîÒéïÒü¿Þ¿ÇÒüåõ║ïÒüºÚüèÒéôÒüºÒüäÒüƒÒüáÒüæÒü¬Òü«Òü½ÒÇüõ╗èÒüºÒü»ÒüØÒü«õ©ûþòîÒüïÒéëþë®ÒéƵîüÒüúÒüªÒüÅÒéïõ║ïÒééÞç¬Õ£¿Òü¿ÒüäÒüåÒÇé	Come to think of it, recently it felt as if Merry's abilities were getting stronger. At first they had fun enough with just being able to catch a glimpse of strange new worlds, but now they were bringing things back from those worlds as if it were nothing.
ÒÇÇõ©ìµÇØÞ¡░Òü¬õ©ûþòîÒüºÒü»ÕªûµÇ¬Òü«ÒéêÒüåÒü¬ÞÇàÒü½Õç║ÒüÅÒéÅÒüÖõ║ïÒééÒüéÒéïÒÇéÞô«Õ¡ÉÒü½Òü¿ÒüúÒüªÒü»ÒüØÒéîÒü»ÒüƒÒüáÒü«Õ╣╗ÕâÅÒüºÒüéÒéïÒüîÒÇüÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝Òü½Òü»þÅ¥Õ«ƒÒü¬Òü«ÒüáÒÇé	In those strange worlds they had sometimes encountered beings like youkai. To Renko, those were just figments of her imagination, but to Merry, they were real.
ÒÇÇÞô«Õ¡ÉÒü½Òü»ÒÇüÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝ÒüîÒüØÒü«ÕªûµÇ¬Òü¿ÕÉîÒüÿÒâ¼ÒâÖÒâ½Òü½ÒüäÒéïÒü¿µÇØÒüêÒüªÒü¬ÒéëÒü¬ÒüïÒüúÒüƒÒÇé	Renko couldn't help thinking that Merry was on the same level as those youkai.

ÒéóÒâ│ÒâÄÒéªÒâ│X

#08​	ÒéóÒâ│ÒâÄÒéªÒâ│X​	Unknown X "Unfound Adventure" ​
ÒÇÇÒÇîÒü¡ÒüêÒü¡ÒüêÒÇüÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝ÒüîµîüÒüúÒüªÒüäÒéïÒüúÒüªÒüäÒüåþƒ│ÒüúÒüª……ÒÇì ÒÇÇÒÇîÒü»ÒüäÒüôÒéîÒÇì	"Hey, Merry, about that rock you said you had with you..." "Here it is."
ÒÇÇÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝Òü»Õ░ÅÒüòÒü¬þƒ│ÒéÆÕÀ«ÒüùÕç║ÒüùÒüƒÒÇéÒüØÒü«Õ¢óÒü»ÒÇüÚçúÒéèÚçØÒü¿ÒééÚìÁÒü¿ÒééÞ¿ÇÒüäÒüîÒüƒÒüäÕ¢óÕ«╣ÒüùÒüîÒüƒÒüäÕ¢óÒéÆÒüùÒüªÒüäÒüƒÒÇéµÿÄÒéëÒüïÒü½õ║║ÕÀÑþë®ÒüºÒüéÒéïÒÇé	Merry held out a small rock. Its shape was hard to describe, something like a fishing hook and something like a key, but it was clearly man-made.
ÒÇÇÒÇîÒüôÒéîÒüîÒéñÒéÂÒâèÒé«ÒâùÒâ¼Òâ╝ÒâêÒüïÒéëÞªïÒüñÒüïÒüúÒüƒõ║║ÕÀÑþë®ÒÇüõ╝èÕ╝ëÞ½¥þë®Þ│¬ÒéñÒéÂÒâèÒé«Òé¬ÒâûÒé©ÒéºÒé»ÒâêÒéêÒÇì ÒÇÇÒÇîÒéôÒâ╝ÒÇüÒü¬ÒéôÒüºÒüØÒüåÞ¿ÇÒüäÕêçÒéîÒéïÒü«´╝ƒÒÇì	"This is what I found at the Izanagi Plate. It's an Izanagi Object." "Hmm... How can you say for sure?"
ÒÇÇÒÇîþºüÒü½Òü»ÞªïÒüêÒéïÒééÒéôÒÇé ÒÇÇÒÇÇ´╝Æ´╝ò´╝É´╝Éõ©çÕ╣┤ÕëìÒü½õ╝èÕ╝ëÞ½¥ÒüîÕëÁÒüúÒüƒµùѵ£¼Òü«Õº┐ÒüîÒÇì ÒÇÇÒÇîõ╗èµùÑÒü«ÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝Òü»ÒÇüÒüäÒüñÒééÒü½ÒééÕóùÒüùÒüªÚø╗µ│óÒü¡ÒÇì ÒÇÇÒÇîõ¢òÒü¿ÒüºÒééÞ¿ÇÒüúÒüªÒÇüõ╗èÒü»µû░ÒüùÒüäµÿáÕâÅÒüîµ¼íÒÇàÒü¿ÕàÑÒüúÒüªÒüìÒüªþÁÂÕÑ¢Þ¬┐Òü¬ÒéôÒüáÒüïÒéëÒÇì	"I can see it. The shape of Japan as Izanagi made it, twenty five million years ago." "You really are acting a lot weirder than usual today, Merry." "Say whatever you want, right now I feel amazing. I keep seeing these new visions, one right after the other."
ÒÇÇÒéÁÒâèÒâêÒâ¬ÒéªÒâáÒüïÒéëµê╗ÒüúÒüªÒüìÒüªÒÇüÒâíÒâ¬Òâ╝Òü»õ©Çµ«ÁÒü¿µäƒÞªÜÒüîÚï¡ÒüÅÒü¬ÒüúÒüƒµºÿÒü½ÞªïÒüêÒéïÒÇé ÒÇÇÞô«Õ¡ÉÒü»þ¥¿Òü¥ÒüùÒüŵÇØÒüåÒü¿ÕÉîµÖéÒü½ÒÇüõ¢òÒü¿ÒüïÒüùÒüªÞç¬ÕêåÒééÒüØÒü«µÿáÕâÅÒéÆÞªïÒü¬ÒüæÒéîÒü░Òü¿µÇØÒüúÒüƒÒÇé	Ever since Merry came back from the sanitorium, her sharpened senses seemed to be on a whole new level. While Renko felt a bit jealous, she hoped that somehow she too could see what Merry saw.
ÒÇÇÒÇîÒü¡ÒüêÒÇüþºüÒü½ÒééÞªïÒüøÒüªÒéêÒâ╝ÒÇéÒüØÒü«µÿáÕâÅÒÇì	"Come on, show them to me, too!"

]

Sorry for the big sizes I'll probably have to reorganize everything. Either way in here, Maribel once again shows her time extent of time travel by travelling to an earlier era by claiming she could see the shape of Japan as Izanagi made it specifically 25 million years ago. Once more this is at her developing stage so Yukari possessing a similar power should be sensible considering that's just boundary Perception and not what Yukari truly has.


Another simple one is just a possibility of Precognition but then again considering she has time travel well... Not that unlikely for her to have it. Here's the quote in question of her predicting Touhou 10 before it could even happen and warning Patchouli about it, who easily became one of the first to identify it.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Story/Yukari's_Script#Yukari_wins_Patchouli


https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Spell_Cards/Yukari_Yakumo#Spell_Card_3

In here it says Yukari creates a boundary itself. This always confused me on its existence and makes me wonder why couldn't she have just unleashed a better looking attack until I realized if one were to create something 2-D it's not really something that has form. So here basically you have Yukari creating 2-D out of possibiliy nothing, or from her spellcard itself. So she can manipulate what's 2-Dimensional. Admittedly I still don't trust this one so I won't bold anything and leave it up to you guys.


https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Spell_Cards/Yukari_Yakumo#Spell_Card_4

This one well she can pull people in. That's about it. Don't know what to make of that. Gravity? Telekinesis?

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Scarlet_Weather_Rhapsody/Spell_Cards/Yukari_Yakumo#Spell_Card_1

The first spell is just overlapping boundaries but nothing really stands out for me here.


The intangibility buff was discussed by one of you guys and added onto Yukari due to her spellcard actually having her vanish. Can't find that thread for some reason. Oh, nevermind .


Then you can add in how Ran who's already a super genius can't even figure Yukari out and how she outsmarted Eirin who seemingly outsmarted her when all along she was the one outsmarting her. Alongside the 1000 variable count in a second and the concept of how she could find out the depth of the Sanzu River.... Well uh that's not really boundary manipluation but it does bring out the extent of her power.


On the other hand something even more to back up her time based ability and the ability to manipulate concepts. Or both technically. This is in General Information under Manipulation of Boundaries. Prepare for more tldr.

With the word "boundary" in its name, Yukari is capable of pretty much anything put under the influence of this ability.ÒÇÇIn her monologue during A Beautiful Flower Blooming Violet Every Sixty Years, she explains that this power allows her to control the boundaries "between any and all things", like Gensokyo and the outside world, the worlds of the living and the dead, humans and youkai, and even the day and the night. [8] The most common application of Yukari's boundary manipulation abilities is opening "gaps" (ÒüÖÒüìÒü¥ sukima) which act as portals between two places,ÒÇÇwhere she's able to hold, sit on or emerge from such gaps. By manipulating borders in space and creating a chasm, she is able to link together separate places. According to this, she's able to show up in unexpected places from time to time, but the aforementioned suspiciousness has been refined. Although this gap is a kind of sub-space, within Yukari's gap, one can see a lot of eyes. These eyes are a manifestation of what one can say is the image of "how desires are swirling around" that Yukari sees in the outside world. The description of Yukari's Magic Eye "Laplace's Demon" spell card implies that Yukari can see using the eyes, as well. Also, although sign posts and other flotsam also drift about, these things also come from Yukari's image of "things that have come to be of no use in the outside world".

Other than that, since there is a boundary on the water surface so to speak, as there is definitely a distinction between water and atmosphere, and since there is the boundary called the horizon that separates the sky from the earth, as was said, she can freely manipulate the boundary of all existent things at will. According to Perfect Memento in Strict Sense, it seems that not only are physical boundaries, but also the general idea of boundaries are also able to be manipulated, and it seems like she would be able to manipulate the boundary between dreams and reality and open up holes for people to enter into dreams. Yukari is also capable of seeing (and seeing through) boundaries that are normally invisible; when the Human Village was displaced from history by Keine Kamishirasawa, Yukari was still able to see it.[9].

It's shown that Yukari can also control the boundaries and bend them to her will as seen in Immaterial and Missing Power when she adjusted the sky by manipulating the border between the daylight and moonlight to unite the day and the night.[10]

Spatial manipulation is something Yukari has here, but only has teleportation in her profile. She's manipulating space itself to create links and those portals. By manipulating chasms between them so there's that spatial manipulation that isn't just gap creation. I'm surprised this hasn't been made yet.

She can also see through many things so there's a sensory link there, or maybe that's her true form.... don't know. Don't take my word for it.

On the other hand there's also the manipulating time in a way that she separates day and night to a level that.... well doesn't clear follow the laws of reality. https://img.youtube.com/vi/FkMecnIn6jI/0.jpg

So there's a manipulation of boundary of day and night? Something temporal or conceptual? Helped by the fact that she assisted in the extension of night during IN. Also here's her quote to show she caused that.

1. 
   Immaterial and Missing Power Border Line - "While you were teasing me I adjusted the sky to enjoy both night and day. If the night falls now, the sky will be morning. The border of daylight and moonlight is mine"

Oh and there's also the Tier 5 scaling but that's irrelevant.


I can find more but in a rush right now.


Things that happened (WIP)

Travelling into and making something from stories, dreams, and pictures come to life

Time Travel

Reversing disbelief into belief

Creation of 2-D

Conventional durab bypass

Making dreams come true (Thanks Catfish Meiling!)

Intangibility


Cans and can dos

Conceptual thing manipulation, limited

Precognition (Just by using boundary perception alone)

Limited Conceptual destruction and creation


Edit - Back and making some fine edits. Now I know I'm not directly addressing your points but I am focusing on what backs up her other abilities since if you have some sort of conceptual manipulation well those things are kinda easy to manipulate.

 

[Andykhang]

Basically that. You forget to mention that she manipulate boundary between Matter and Antimatter, Mind and Feet (though that's probably a sub-boun from Reality/Fantasy) and Youkai and Human. And the reason she wouldn't go directly to the moon (What I have is speculation though): She can't go to the moon because of Lunarian influence, but that could additionally be due to the status-quo between Youkai and God that she doesn't have the upper hand in. Either she can't, or she doesn't want to manip that Youkai/God boundary. Even so though, she commented that once she goes there, the barrier that protect the Lunar Capital would just "take too long", and is already successfully infiltrated to take Yuyuko and Youmu out.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Oh yeah access to anti matter too in that regard.

Actually I forgot what Mind and Feet is, explain again? And sounds like it. Youkai and human too is something I missed.

Also updated. And honestly it seems likely considering things. Considering the extent of the lunarians and how they might be buds with Amithaba. At least iirc someone made that argument.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That was a really long explanation Core, however i appreciate it as i have gained an understanding of how yukari's ability works, and yes i do agree though it does seem like some sort conceptual manipulation to me from what i got from you said, things can only exist because there are boundaries that define the, if not there wouldn't be any distinction and there would only be a single thing.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Sorry and thanks, maaaay have a bit overboard..... may have xD

The above is the understatement of the year.

Although I can't say it's a full on conceptual manipulation that changes everything seeing as there are limitations. Also the validity of Akyuu's 'questionabl sources' is really rendered moot by the numerous statements claiming Yukari to be godly and how she can destroy Gensokyo with ease, doesn't care about the lunarians attempt to take over Gensokyo, yada yada yada

 

[Andykhang]

Actually I forgot what Mind and Feet is, explain again? And sounds like it. Youkai and human too is something I missed.

Here: https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Touhou_Hisoutensoku/Spell_Cards/Yukari_Yakumo

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Huh.... so some sort of deconstruction line laser?

 

[Andykhang]

I don't really know, TBH... I never seen a video of that, and frankly i'm too lazy to play that game again

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

At least you have the gaaame. Go plaaay it.

 

[Andykhang]

I play the card, and it really just look like some kind of lazer. Like she draw a line at the air and then it split or something...

Edit:Guess it's more like she ripped something apart in the line, and the damage is what let out.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

What the? I thought I responded to this. Either way yeah it might be that then. Spatial Splitting or destruction of something. Honestly if I can I'd try out every Touhou spellcard just to compare anything.

Also should I make a Content Revision Thread in preparation for this or would this thread alone be satisfying enough?

 

[Andykhang]

Don't know, you should ask Ant for this.

 

[FateAlbane]

On COB's points: In agreement with all of it, except the Time Travelling part where I'm not entirely sure if I can trust that "Yukari's Spiriting Away" actually does that - even moreso when the feat in question is actually coming from another character, so I'm not so certain if we can insta assume that because Yukari >> Maribel = Time Travelling.

On the plus side, while we're still here, I argued before about Yukari's invisibility that she demonstrates on a lot of her Spellcards in PCB and this thing here that Core might have let go unnoticed:


- Isolation of Gensokyo from the outside world

...This one is a rather interesting point that people usually let go unnoticed. If Yukari can isolate a whole world from another one, everything included, I think it stands to reason that she can either seal or BFR people simply by isolating them from the world/battlefield she currently stands at.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

@Fate

It's borderline confirmed that Yukari > Maribel, and heavily hinted that they are the same person.

 

[FateAlbane]

On Andhy's points: These you mentioned are just spellcard names as far as I remember, otherwise we get Universal Big Bang for SS1 Vegeta because he calls his signature move the Big Bang Attack. Do provide proof. If we use the spellcards names, the ammount of powers Yukari will gain is ungodly (Life and Death Manipulation is the first to come to mind by that logic).

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I actually disagree with that. It has been established multiple times that Yukari can manipulate any boundaries. Of course we can't just come up with powers using some random boundary, so limiting it to what she's been shown to be capable of doing using it seems to be the best. In this case, we can tell that she can manipulate the boundary of [Insert Spell Card Name Here].

 

[FateAlbane]

Except that she just shoots people when she uses these spellcards/powers. If we go "she can manipulate all boundaries, it was stated so", we get the good ol' NLF reasoning.

 

[FateAlbane]

Anyways. Aside from what I already mentioned, she should also get resistance to Time Manipulation by virtue of fighting Sakuya on PCB.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Except that those are just Spell Cards attack. She likely uses her Boundary Manipulation to create the pattern of danmaku. Grimoire of Marisa seems to say that her spell cards named on Boundary actually uses the power of said boundary.

 

[FateAlbane]

It's borderline confirmed that Yukari > Maribel, and heavily hinted that they are the same person.

I didn't question Yukari >> Maribel at all.

My point is that you can't be so certain that a feat of one character insta confirms that the other character has it as well by virtue of being stronger. They could very well just have better potency, experience or versatility overall, not necessarily all the techniques from the other one.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

In this case, Manipulating Boundaries is seen as a direct "evolution" of Maribel's ability. Renko did mention how Maribel's ability could potentially become one of Manipulating Boundaries.

 

[FateAlbane]

Anyways, my view so far:

Things that happened (WIP)

Travelling into and making something from stories, dreams, and pictures come to life *(Fully supported)

Time Travel (Disagree for the moment, until someone tells me more on the subject)

Reversing disbelief into belief (Supported)

Creation of 2-D (Like COB himself said, sounds somewhat uncertain to me, but on the other hand it also sounds pretty reasonable. I'm not entirely certain to where I should lean on this one so whatever gets decided by others, I'll probably go along with it)

Conventional durab bypass (Fully supported)

Making dreams come true (Thanks Catfish Meiling!)

Intangibility (I'm the one who made the thread regarding for this and summoning back then, so obviously supported (already added, tho).)


Cans and can dos

Conceptual thing manipulation, limited (Support

Precognition (Just by using boundary perception alone)

Limited Conceptual destruction and creation (Supported all).


THINGS THAT I AM SUGGESTING:

- Resistance to Time Manipulation (I don't see her fighting Sakuya so casually in PCB without being able to at least deal with Time Manipulation to an extent)

- Invisibility (Abuses it a lot in some of her spellcards. There's no way she doesn't have this.)

- BFR and Sealing by isolating people and stuff from the world. Heck, she can isolate AN ENTIRE WORLD. Unless the opponent has some serious teleportation or way to avoid this, it's a rather powerful sealing and BFR.

 

[FateAlbane]

In this case, Manipulating Boundaries is seen as a direct "evolution" of Maribel's ability. Renko did mention how Maribel's ability could potentially become one of Manipulating Boundaries.

Yeah, I vaguely recall such statement. I'll look a little more on the subject here and once COB comes back he can also explain it a little more to me if needed. Depending on how things turn out, I could probably agree with the Time Travelling point by then.

 

[FateAlbane]

Except that those are just Spell Cards attack. She likely uses her Boundary Manipulation to create the pattern of danmaku. Grimoire of Marisa seems to say that her spell cards named on Boundary actually uses the power of said boundary.

I didn't see any matter being annihilated, anyone instantly dying (unless you consider the shot killing... Uh, whatever) nor anything of the sort.

Anyways. If it was just this, it could be disregarded as simply "game mechanics" but then there's the problem that in the entirety of Touhou's canon we've never seen Yukari using those things offensively or in combat at all. If she had ONE feat of applying that in combat or somewhere else in the way it's supposed to work (antimatter annhilating matter, Death manip insta-killing something), it would be the end of this. But as it currently stands, it just shoots people. That's why Kaguya's power is so easy to confirm while Yukari's is so problematic.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yukari's Anti-Matter stuff more or less work in the same way as it would actually work. The two gap touching eachothers causes explosions. Pretty sure anyone surviving it is just gameplay mechanic.

Pretty sure that "life and death" was assumed to be the physical place, not actually instant-deathing someone.

 

[FateAlbane]

You can usually clash anything power-related in fiction and it will cause an explosion, tho.

Like I said, if we go by spellcard names, might as well go by the statement that she manipulates all boundaries and slap on her profile "controls any and all boundaries, was stated to do so".

...Which we can't do.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

You talk like we can't use statements.

Obviously we can't just say that she can manipulate any boundary, but we can at least go by what she seems to be capable of doing. Like I said, we have proof already that some such Spell Card actually uses the boundary effect (Ex: Wave and Particle, Reality and Dream etc.). The only ones relevant here would be the anti-matter stuff (Pretty sure that she could just access another universe anyway) and the 2D stuff (Which is already a thing via Reality/Dream stuff)

 

[FateAlbane]

Strawman right there, Saik. I never said we can't use statements.

What I'm saying is that taking statements at face-value when evidence suggests otherwise is fundamentally wrong. We have statements that suggest the spellcard draws power from said Boundary, but Yukari has not used said power for anything other than shooting people. It was at most used as a source of energy, nothing more.

Because of that, I can't agree at all with the spellcard name thing, due to what I mentioned above of her never using the applications that said manipulations would imply (Annihilating matter via antimatter or the Life/Death stuff, though like you said, this last one is not that relevant anymore).

As for the 2-D stuff, I already said that I will go with what the majority decides because I'm not certain myself.

 

[FateAlbane]

On a sidenote, I'm sad we can't give her "Summoning: Unstoppable Unblockable Train."

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Godo morning woof. Did a little skim while groggy so be wary of my words and also on mobipe woof. But basicslly. If Yukari and Maribel were different peoppr they wouldn't be really compare. But wiyh how Maribel's power is evolving and technivslly they always been alluded into the same person or some sort of parallel people something then its certainly ppausoble.will respond better later.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that FateAlbane seems to make sense.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Also on another note my blog has an organized format so check it out and uh that actually included changing Yukari's teleportation into spatial manipulation

 

[Andykhang]

The Life/Death one is physical somewhat, but it's also spiritual and abstract. And you can't crossover it normally unless you're a soul, which normally translate to... well, death. And if you can't agree that feat would be Matter/Antimatter manipulating, what do you explain what she does with the spell card?

Also there's some line I found intriguing: "Is it electric? Or kerosene? Or maybe even nitroglycerin? Well, whatever the case, it's a simple request. I have an unending supply of any of those... and we should help each other in times of need, after all."

...Not entirely surprise she have kerosene or nitroglycerin, or even the electric stuff since she probably even have Zeus's thunder in there or something. Just an added thing for her feat (Probably matter creation from the Matter/Antimatter thing). Oh, and also that she could used her gap to absord enemies bullet and spit out an entirely different one too.

 

[FateAlbane]

The Life/Death one is physical somewhat, but it's also spiritual and abstract. And you can't crossover it normally unless you're a soul, which normally translate to... well, death. And if you can't agree that feat would be Matter/Antimatter manipulating, what do you explain what she does with the spell card?

Shoots people. That's what she does.

The burden of proof for the whole thing is on you, not on me. You wan't to say it's antimatter manipulation without any conclusive evidence, it's not up to me to prove that it isn't but to you to provide actual evidence that it is. Same goes for the death thing. Assumptions, assumptions. That's why I'm agreeing so easily with the majority of COB's points and even willing to go with the majority for the 2-D thing, but not agreeing at all with these "the names of the spellcard say that so that it is".

 

[Andykhang]

Well, the best I could think of now is it actually a pair of pseudo blach/white hole thing that attract each other to be annihilate, but I'm getting sleepy now... later.

 

[FateAlbane]

Also on another note my blog has an organized format so check it out and uh that actually included changing Yukari's teleportation into spatial manipulation

Maybe that spatial manipulation includes the boundary sucking people and stuff?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Alright on computer now. *stretches fingers* No more typos this time. <Cue typo I didn't even notice>. Might as well link this. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...r_lord_and_saviour_the_Boundary_Hag-_*gapped*

First off.... Regarding the time travel I actually rechecked Fate and well... You know how it's the Spiriting Away that helps pull outsiders and humans into Gensokyo so that hot monster girls could eat them? (Not the good kind of eating either) Well... From the statements there it seems that Maribel was only beginning to tell Renko about her stories and that she herself may not have caused this actual time travel but rather she got pulled in in a Spiriting Away Method. And well... the one who constantly does that? Yukari Yakumo. The girl who coincidentally is a stronger version of her. There's also the issue about time and space being so closely associated to each other too and Yukari is basically toying with space all the time. I personally believe she can time travel. Cause even if you could argue the case that Maribel is versatile well.... Yukari is VERY versaile too on the application of her abilities. I don't think Yukari is someone who'd focus on raw power, and if anything that might be Maribel, although then again she has little of that anyway.

Also for further proof on how similar Maribel's ability is to Yukari. https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Maribel_Hearn#Ability It's really similar to dream and travelling.

No complaints on the resistance to time effects btw. It seems likely that she's resistant.


So Andy you're saying she can convert energy or projectiles that she receives with her gaps? Then again it's only a matter of putting something in a story or picture and changing it and then spitting it out....


Anyway regarding the Spellcards I slightly agree with Fate that we can't just take everything at face value. However if there is sufficient proof and reasoning for some cases then exceptions could be made. We can't just believe everything however I also don't believe that comparing Vegeta's Big Bang attack to Yukari's spellcards would be fair since after all Yukari has the advantage of having limited interactions with certain concepts. Which from what I've shown are quite distinct and notable enough. I'm not gonna wank it though and claims she can do what superpower wiki lists out because that would be just absurd.

Back to topic....If you guys want to talk about Life and Death, we do have a situation where Yukari was friends with Yuyuko who can coincidentally kill anything close to her. Before anyone gets started, it's speculative on whether or not Yuyuko can actually control her power to kill but then again if the power drove her insane on the first place.... Well either way from below on what's listed, a certain someone dealt with her ability, and used her body as a seal to prevent a soul draining tree. So there are some interactions with life and death or rather soul draining here.

https://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Yukari_Yakumo#Saigyou_Ayakashi_Occurrence

Although if we compare Yukari's reactions and possibly her fighting quotes it might lead to something about her abilities and just how effective would they be or whether they shouldn't be added.

Also agreeing on the spatiality.

 

[FateAlbane]

Did you notice the invisibility as well as the sealing/BFR I mentioned above? What do you think about that?

Okay then. I'm convinced in regards to the Time Travel, but really not on the spellcards - Vegeta isn't the only example.

We also have Arceus for example who happens to have "Omnipotent" as a power name, is hyped up to be the ultimate pokemon, but still isn't something like that. As well as good ol' moustachelord Yhwach who has "the Almighty" and hyped up in verse to be invincible via that until arrow of PIS. So the spellcard name thing remains wrong to me.