Yukari Yakumo vs Terumi (Susano'o)

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

The Susanoo Unit's main purpose is Time Killer. The Unit is Terumi's original body, as stated on his official profile from the Central Fiction wesbite which says: "In a time as long as eternity, Susano'o protected Amaterasu together with Tsukuyomi. But through some cause, he began to have a will. After that, he began to hate being bound by the Master Unit and rebelled." So I think it's a fair assumption that he would be capable of it.

 

[JBennett]

most of Yuki's abilites aren't really important agaitns someone like Yukari, his imun to Time, mind, and soul is pointless since Yukari doesn't focus in that field in combat. his type 8 immortality is usles in a 1v1 agaitns Yukari since Yokai's are born from Human fears so getting her to fear Susano will be nigh-impossible.

I have no idea what this Phenomena Intervention is so some clarification wouuld be nice, but even if it's just as simple as it seems he might be immun but Noel isn't so if Yukari finds out about her she can easily seperat them, or something similar due to her BM. there's also ways around it even if he can't be RM the enviroment can so he can still be damage in other ways. I don't know what is classified as spiritural damage but from what I can tell Yuki can't do it so that's pointless but I could be wrong so clarification is appriciated

This is just my personal opinion but I feel like Yukari has the higher inteligence just simplly because her's seemed to have more Wheight to it compared to Yuki but that's just my opinion so don't take it seriously

Even if she can't kill Susano she could still win via Sealing, or KO if push comes to shove.

I can either see this as a stalemate or Yukari via sealing I'll need to think more about it before I can give a definite answer.

 

[Andykhang]

So again, how does they seperate her from him?

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Conceptual soul damage from Terumi would be quite effective against Yukari maybe? I don't think she would fear him, but possibly showing negative emotions toward him could be a thing.

Phenomena intervention is essentially just reality warping. The issue is that Yukari wouldn't be able to tell that they were even separate entities to begin with, all of this would require knowing he's a soul in armor. To the average person it just appears to be his body.(which is very accurate as it is his original body, Terumi himself is just his soul given form.) Damage dealt directly to the soul would be classified as spiritual damage. Susanoo is capable of this, as he is shown to be able to directly damage them with his bare hands as shown here[1]. I'm not too sure if she's more intelligent, but I can say for certain Terumi has been around for quite a long time and is quite a mastermind. To name off some things to boot, he's been alive for over 72,000 years as Rachel recalls that it has been repeating for that long, and Terumi has existed even before that, since he has existed since the original world. As for how much time passed in between all of that, I can't say for sure. He has however observed an infinite amount of possibilities all at once, and was capable of comprehending it, and tricked something that was akin to an all powerful god.

Is she capable of sealing him? I'm not sure if it would work on him, but if you could give me better context of her capabilities in those regards I could be convinced.

I still hold the opinion that Susanoo either would win this via erasure, or stalemate.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

So again, how does they seperate her from him?

Jin perceives him as a separate entity, and Ragna pulls him out with soul eater. I don't think it's entirely impossible for her to do it, but I don't think she would know to begin with. When he did it in the story, they already knew what had happened and what was going on.

 

[Andykhang]

With Boundary Perception, she can, and it's not like they're lacking example of a body in a shell in her own verse. And I could imagine observing infinite boundary as once, with some as boundless as her eyes could see is quite the same as his.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

I'm not sure if you understand observation in blazblue. I would explain it, but honestly I'd have a bit of trouble describing how it works. It's a lot different than her boundary ability, I will say that. It's supposedly based on the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment as well as well as Many-Worlds interpretation.

 

[Andykhang]

Basically does they see "possibility" for an event, or even concept? And I mean that her intellect and wisdom would be quite comparable, as you could compare seeing infinite world with seeing infinite boundary between them.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

I guess you could say that. Part of an observer is willing it. Let me give an example. During the the final confrontation of Chronophantasma, Hakumen attempts to use Time Killer on Izanami. Izanami is seemingly unaffected by this. It's due to her self-observation. Because Izanami perceives that she still exists, she will continue to exist no matter what. Do you have anything detailing Yukari's ability to see infinite boundaries, some sources maybe?

Could I get some insight on how spiritual damage would effect her. If her soul was completely destroyed would she stay dead or what? I don't think he could pull her soul out and crush it necessarily, as she's supposedly immune to Yuyuko's ability, but direct hits from him would do damage I'd assume.

 

[Andykhang]

Well, it's more like logical conclusion than anything, since there're literally boundary between any and all thing, and some of them are infinite, or at least boundless. She need to be able to comprehend them all in order to even attempt to control it. This maybe a good example:

"Merry said that if we refer to the world we humans observe, which is dominated by photons, as "the world here," then there are also countless "worlds beyond" dominated by other types of particles. And in those "worlds beyond," there are life-forms living there as well."

Merry here basically have a in-development Boundary Perception, and what she seen is already "countless". Comparing that to Yukari who have "already mastered boundary from a long time ago."...

But well, more accurately, I should said "countless" rather than infinite. Though considering that she live in a String Theory universe where concept of brane world exist (and 21 dimension...), that's alot.

Well, she does said even killing her is useless, but I have no idea if destroying her soul really have any effect whatsoever. Well, she could definitively prevent her soul from leaking out by afixing her soul to her body with motion/stillness, or even making destroying it useless as she flip it around with form/emptiness, or turn it into wave that have no definite position, so I guess more-or-less it's not going to work.

Edit: Well, wait for more respond though, as I'm not sure other will agree to what I said, but this is my honest opinion.

 

[JBennett]

Yukari's is one of the original creators of the great Hakurei bearier, something that uses the concept of the bounderies between reality and fantasy add to the fact that Reimu, who specilizes in beariers was trained by yukari it's very possible that she also spealelizis in sealing.

Like I said, I only said yukari is smarter due to what their profiles said about them, I'll admit my knowlede on BB is lower compared to TP so most of my judgemnt is base on their profiles which gives me the impression of Yukari winning, though not through perminment defeat.

Gods in TP was not only able to esist when no concepts excists but also was able to give concepts onto things via a name, Yukari, who is able to affect thing very nature, is similar in this regards, I'll admit I can't explain is properly so you can find it here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1140330.

 

[Andykhang]

Probably doesn't mean Yukari herself is a god of those nature though (though she could change her nature as a wimp...). As best we can only confirm that she is someone who could control those very same border the god have made.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

My problem with a lot of this stuff is how vague it is, and how useful it is in actual combat. It's not like her ability is limitless. It can be overpowered. She's stated before that she's weaker than Toyohime, a character with barely any hax to boot. While there's a decent disparity in AP, it gives idea that her ability can be overpowered by much more powerful entities. I get that it might be because Yorihime summons beings like Amaterasu, but I'm pretty sure Noel Vermillion's self-observation is far superior.(She essentially haxxes herself into existence, and is capable of resisting the Master Unit:Amaterasu by outhaxing her.)

 

[Wuta420]

My problem with a lot of this stuff is how vague it is, and how useful it is in actual combat. It's not like her ability is limitless. It can be overpowered. She's stated before that she's weaker than Toyohime, a character with barely any hax to boot. While there's a decent disparity in AP, it gives idea that her ability can be overpowered by much more powerful entities. I get that it might be because Yorihime summons beings like Amaterasu, but I'm pretty sure Noel Vermillion's self-observation is far superior.(She essentially haxxes herself into existence, and is capable of resisting the Master Unit:Amaterasu by outhaxing her.)

imma be honest I was always never sure how literally to take that statement about being stronger because yukari was literally trolling

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-1_H9DQqTtZU/VniajtxpkhI/AAAAAAAwN30/6jDVNo_hX-o/w1900/16.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XH3Vxyy58BM/VniakRFamFI/AAAAAAAwN4Q/W1PdmVQOWvk/w1900/17.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KDzhqggw9...ModI/2MZWxYY1FXU/w1900/MR-10400-158930-12.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-JSJB9d1_y...Moco/rVgoToYZLPk/w1900/MR-10400-158930-13.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g2s-ISPOE...MobM/00Tvqh3A7aM/w1900/MR-10400-158930-16.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7eMrsFi63...MoZ0/bg54pu00fSY/w1900/MR-10400-158930-19.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ValgEhknd...MoZc/ycN13cy0FqI/w1900/MR-10400-158930-20.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-k2P0M5evh...MoYo/QbhYZHuzCLI/w1900/MR-10400-158930-22.jpg

 

[JBennett]

Yukari is the type of person who likes to win in a round about way rather then a straight forward way. that's my personal reason why I think she can win even if it's not in a straight up method. even if Yuki does outmatch her I can still see her coming up on top in one way or another.

I was looking at what Even Interference actually mean and I believe it's a level lower then Yukari's BM although it is more 'potent' in it's field compared to Yukari's, due to that I believe Yukari's BM would still work againts him due to the vast range of effects it has over EI since EI only works on "Switching between existence and non-existence", which Yukari also has domain over via different versions.

While I don't beleive Yukari can perminatly kill Yuki I do believe can win.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Still something to take into consideration. It's hard to tell what to take seriously when said by certain characters.

I wouldn't say it's a lower level than Yukari's BM. It really depends on the level of event interference. In Amaterasu's case it creates universal levels of interference, governing over countless timelines at once. Event interference has a lot more uses than you would think.

I believe that Susanoo could likely end her. Even if he couldn't kill her, he is just as capable of absorbing her as he is Noel. Although I admit, I'm not sure if he would be able to get his hands on her, and would probably be relying on his other abilities rather than physical.

 

[JBennett]

yeah well Yuki isn't Amaterasu is he so assuming he can reach that level is an assuption just as assuming Yuki can absorb Yukari just because he absorbed Noel. Besides even if he did I doubt he would be able to contain her perminatly since I'm sure she can escape or cause damage to him from the inside.

It's lower in terms of veriety but is higher in terms of Potecy, even stil Yukari still could equal it in different ways. It only works on events and people basically right? in that case most of the applications for BM wouldn't be a problem againts him. sure he might survive but they'll still effect him to a degree.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Not what I meant. He has Noel absorbed who is capable of observing Amaterasu. Noel's self observation is on the level of Amaterasu. Again, that's true that I'm not sure if he would be able to, but I don't think she has any resistances to it. I'm pretty sure that him doing that would be the equivalent to a KO, but again that doesn't seem like a likely scenario.

What exactly could she do to him? I don't think she would be able to bypass Noel's self observation like I said before, and even without that the Susanoo unit already would give Terumi good resistances to begin with. As if he wasn't already ridiculously hard to deal with before.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Shouldn't Terumi be Universal in that case? Then again I still need informaiton on how he was able to absorb her. Maybe she hated him so much that time? You gotta clarify some stuff on these, kinda hard to debate while blind.

Also reading about the ability in the wiki actally simplifies it much more. I mean you could've just linked me to the wiki and it could've helped out a lot lol. Helps clear on some ambiguity. It's quite like fate manipulation from what I see in a way, alongside a bit of Yhwach's power. Not being able to affect those who can counter it.

That said I read a bit more and wow, Terumi is really like a god in the context of his existence. He's literally a god of hatred if he was placed in the Touhou verse.

 

[Andykhang]

Yukari could just seperate her from him, and there're ton of way to do that. Building boundary between them, having the assimilation being a lie through Truth/Lie, revert her form back through form/emptyness, etc...

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

Yup. Pretty much. Also it's so hard to find anything about the fusion on Noel with Terumi on the wiki...

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

I wouldn't really say he's universal. He's just using Noel's self observation to remain constantly in a state of existence, basically taking advantage of the fact that Noel will always keep herself around, so therefore doing the same for him. As for how he assimilated Noel into him? It's not really explained at all. He grabs her, teleports away, and then she's already inside of the unit unconscious. It's not really explained how, it just kind of happened.

How exactly would she even be able to tell that they're separate though? They only knew that he had absorbed her because he mentioned it right before entering the suit. I don't think you'd be able to differentiate them from being one if you weren't told.

 

[Andykhang]

Like I said before, she have Boundary Perception. Even if they're assimilated, there're bound to be "difference", a boundary that set them apart, like how you could still seperate a human body into many organ. With that fact and her intellect, she could easily find a pattern that could be seperate from the whole that would do the same thing that defeat him last time.

Or in another word, she know because, in her perceptive, his body already told her what happen, and what need to be done.

Edit: Or basically...In coding, even if you assimilate other's code into your own, the style, the efficiency of it and even the way you put chunk of it in the code reveal that the code isn't entirely your own...And tbh, she could have just look at the "self-observation module" class inside his and just cut it out entirely, if we go by coding metaphor.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

So it's a really high end immortality in that case until Noel was taken out.

See that's what makes it difficult to argue for and against. Then again whats mroe important is how did they get Noel out?

And yeah Andy damn. When did you level up this much? Pretty much what he said

 

[Andykhang]

What do you mean I'm level up? I just know the way to debate in this place and just let it loose abit after I know for sure Yukari could do that.

 

[Brunout]

See that's what makes it difficult to argue for and against. Then again whats mroe important is how did they get Noel out?

Power of Order to recognize Susano'o and Noel as two different beings and Soul Eater to take Terumi out of the unit

 

[Ciruno_Fortes_(COB)]

It's a compliment lol nvm though, was groggy when I woke up earlier

Ah thank you Brunout!! So basically their existence was fused together and everyone perceived them as one, but Power of Order, which is basically anti reality manip reality manip, identified the difference, and used Soul Eater, which seems to be a spiritual based attack to severe the two? That actually makes things much simpler.

Oh and... in that case, if the boundary between Susano and Noel disappeared... that means Yukari can revert that.

 

[XXBeerusTheDestroyerXx]

Soul Eater is known for it's affects directly to the soul. He grabbed Terumi, who's body is literally just a soul, and pulled him out of his body. After that he was cut down by Jin who used a materialized Hiirokane. After all that, Ragna had to duke it out with Terumi. They had to use the Amaterasu method to actually put him down for good, otherwise I doubt he would have been killed for certain. Though this is assuming Yukari knows all of this and would automatically do it from the start. Keep in mind Susanoo is quite capable of doing damage to her as she is to him.

As for what you said Andy, I don't exactly think it would work. Maybe if she tried something more along the lines of what Jin did. But I don't think she would be able to affect Noel's observations at all. I'm quite confident that at her level they would overpower Yukari's BM, and she would be trying to alter the existence of Noel, since Noel recognizes Terumi as herself as well.

 

[Andykhang]

From what I see though, PoO could just be easily replicated if Yukari make the following event a "lie" through Truth/Lie, making it invalid, or just do it entirely by forcing the Truth out. And like I said before, she still have ton of way to split them out.

 

[Shootingkill]

Bump

 

[ALRF]

From what I see though, PoO could just be easily replicated if Yukari make the following event a "lie" through Truth/Lie, making it invalid, or just do it entirely by forcing the Truth out. And like I said before, she still have ton of way to split them out.

I honestly don't remember Yukari doing something like this.

 

[Andykhang]

Well, she does blurred the Truth/Lie boundary in order to cross the moon, I don't see why she can't strengthen it to do that.

 

[ALRF]

Yeah, except that's a different way. The one you just said seems more like an assumption or a theory.

 

[Andykhang]

More like educated guess. If she could blurred the border, she could also strengthen it. If she could strengthen it, then she could do something like PoO, just by looking at the Truth "border" alone, and strengthen it to force it out.

 

[Shootingkill]

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[Shootingkill]

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[Shootingkill]

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[Shootingkill]

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[Shootingkill]

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[Shootingkill]

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