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You're overplaying it. Shibukawa would have low diff-ed Jack had it not been for his bite. Jack just managed to win because of it, had he not used it, Baki would have fought an old man in the finals.Hykuu said:
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Yujiro Hanma Question/Potential Upgrade
- Thread starter Iapitus_The_Impaler
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Yujiro is still the strongest without a doubt. Baki was capable of competing with Musashi relatively well and even capable of killing him if he was just a bit stronger. Musashi said the cockroach tackle almost knocked him out if I remember correctly. Compare this to Yujiro, who took Musashi's full assault head on with minor injuries. The Motobe thing is obviously Motobe being stupid or just PIS, as if an attack was capable of slicing deep into Yujiro's body, it would have cleaved Motobe in two, which it didn't at all.
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Motobe finishing of Musashi did feel a bit weird. I mean the dude is insanely skilled. He is on a higher skill level then Yanagi who is ridiculously skilled already but Musashi was presented to be on a differen't level entirely above even that. It sorta came out of no where.
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Just took a look at some of the changes and one issue so far. Doppo and Retsu should have their small town key changed. I discussed on a previous post how Retsu should only be possibly small town level as Musashi held back against him. Doppo is also weaker in Dou compared to his fight against Yujiro. He needs a key dedicated to his pre Yujiro fight self.
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What should Doppo's Possibly Low 7-C key be?
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The way I view it, Doppo should have 3 keys. One for pre Yujiro fight, one for Post Yujiro fight and one for Dou.
After his fight with Yujiro his body never fully recovered and he wasn't as strong as he was when he fought the King. He also lost the ability to use Sangan as Yujiro destroyed his eye. I'd say Doppo should have possibly Small Town Level in his pre Yujiro key for his feats against Yujiro and how he could have easily beaten Baki, Large Building to City block in his second key for reasons such as fighting Dorian and being stated to be above Katsumi by Katsumi himself. And then his Dou key can have his possibly Small Town Level rating back, as it was shown that Doppo has been training harder than ever before and was able to slightly cut Musashi. Only difference is he still doesn't have Sangan. Basically his reaction speed should be at its highest in the pre Yujiro key due to Sangan. But after that he loses that ability for good.
For Retsu, his is more simple as he only needs two keys. One for Baki Dou, and one for everything else. Retsu's city block level key is good, but his small town level key needs to have possibly in front of it as he only hurt Musashi slightly, and Musashi was holding back.
After his fight with Yujiro his body never fully recovered and he wasn't as strong as he was when he fought the King. He also lost the ability to use Sangan as Yujiro destroyed his eye. I'd say Doppo should have possibly Small Town Level in his pre Yujiro key for his feats against Yujiro and how he could have easily beaten Baki, Large Building to City block in his second key for reasons such as fighting Dorian and being stated to be above Katsumi by Katsumi himself. And then his Dou key can have his possibly Small Town Level rating back, as it was shown that Doppo has been training harder than ever before and was able to slightly cut Musashi. Only difference is he still doesn't have Sangan. Basically his reaction speed should be at its highest in the pre Yujiro key due to Sangan. But after that he loses that ability for good.
For Retsu, his is more simple as he only needs two keys. One for Baki Dou, and one for everything else. Retsu's city block level key is good, but his small town level key needs to have possibly in front of it as he only hurt Musashi slightly, and Musashi was holding back.
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Fixed
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"You're overplaying it. Shibukawa would have low diff-ed Jack had it not been for his bite. Jack just managed to win because of it, had he not used it, Baki would have fought an old man in the finals."
He found a weakeness in Aiki, which is something basically every other person shibukawa fought couldn't for the most part, also the fact that he saw the vision of a gate before fighting jack hanma.
"But Yujiro can harden his muscles, Pickle cannot"
Ultimate form's Pickle muscles are probably on the level of Yujiro's muscles (like when he tried to counter baki's benda)
"Baki was capable of competing with Musashi relatively well and even capable of killing him if he was just a bit stronger."
Musashi could've just cleaved his head off from the start, he never even brought up baki being formidable whenever he fought someone like yujiro, pickle, etc. The fact Musashi also was able to contend with Pickle PHYSICALLY to a complete stand still (he was on the losing end a bit but managed to hold himself extremely well) also speaks alot. Musashi being knocked out by the cockroach tackle doesn't really mean anything, it is likely that Musashi was just being playful, same as he was when Motobe got him in a chokehold.
The reason the attack didn't kill motobe can be explained with two reasons
firstly, the place where the attack was meant to be, we do know that when motobe jumped in it hit his shoulder, for all we know musashi could've hit a weak spot in yujiro's body (he's really good at finding those lol, look at his fight with pickle)
Motobe could've also been wearing armor in this context
He found a weakeness in Aiki, which is something basically every other person shibukawa fought couldn't for the most part, also the fact that he saw the vision of a gate before fighting jack hanma.
"But Yujiro can harden his muscles, Pickle cannot"
Ultimate form's Pickle muscles are probably on the level of Yujiro's muscles (like when he tried to counter baki's benda)
"Baki was capable of competing with Musashi relatively well and even capable of killing him if he was just a bit stronger."
Musashi could've just cleaved his head off from the start, he never even brought up baki being formidable whenever he fought someone like yujiro, pickle, etc. The fact Musashi also was able to contend with Pickle PHYSICALLY to a complete stand still (he was on the losing end a bit but managed to hold himself extremely well) also speaks alot. Musashi being knocked out by the cockroach tackle doesn't really mean anything, it is likely that Musashi was just being playful, same as he was when Motobe got him in a chokehold.
The reason the attack didn't kill motobe can be explained with two reasons
firstly, the place where the attack was meant to be, we do know that when motobe jumped in it hit his shoulder, for all we know musashi could've hit a weak spot in yujiro's body (he's really good at finding those lol, look at his fight with pickle)
Motobe could've also been wearing armor in this context
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Took a look at Doppo and Retsu. Looks pretty good just a few things with Doppo. His second key should have all of his Yujiro scaling stuff moved to the first key, and his third key still needs the possibly, added in front of the small town level. In the speed section I think it's also worth it to make the note that after his first key he losses his Hypersonic+ reaction speed as he cannot use Sangan anymore.
After that is changed, I'd say the main changes still need to be applied to the following characters
Baki (Needs more kegs for a more accurate profile) Yujiro/Yüichirō (Need demon back key which would be 7-C) Pickle (Needs a key for his ultimate form) Jack (More keys needed just like Baki) Musashi (Could debatably scale to 7-C demon back Yujiro but that's in the air)
To make it clear, I think 7-C makes sense for any characters who are on Demon Back Yujiro Level or at least close to that level. This is due to the fact that Base Yujiro casually pulled off a Low 7-C feat and even an incomplete demon back gave Baki a 2x power increase.
After that is changed, I'd say the main changes still need to be applied to the following characters
Baki (Needs more kegs for a more accurate profile) Yujiro/Yüichirō (Need demon back key which would be 7-C) Pickle (Needs a key for his ultimate form) Jack (More keys needed just like Baki) Musashi (Could debatably scale to 7-C demon back Yujiro but that's in the air)
To make it clear, I think 7-C makes sense for any characters who are on Demon Back Yujiro Level or at least close to that level. This is due to the fact that Base Yujiro casually pulled off a Low 7-C feat and even an incomplete demon back gave Baki a 2x power increase.
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He doesn't have Hypersonic+ reaction speeds on the page, and I fixed the other things on Doppo's page.
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New summary
Yujiro Hanma
AP: Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Able to easily defeat enemies he was pretty even with)
Resistances: Extreme resistance to Poison
Powers: Limited Pain Manipulation with Whip Strike, Aura Intimidatio, Paralysis Inducement, Statistics Amplification (via Demon Back)
Tecnhiques:
AP: At least Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Everyone after seeing his spirit alone remembered his violent energy as well as scaring and surprising Yujiro; called the strongest even in the presence of Yujiro)
Durability: 7-C (Tanked 1000 tons of explosives without a scratch)
Powers: Aura Intimidatio
Baki Hanma
AP: Only reaches Low 7-C stats through his Demon Back
Yujiro Hanma
AP: Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Able to easily defeat enemies he was pretty even with)
Resistances: Extreme resistance to Poison
Powers: Limited Pain Manipulation with Whip Strike, Aura Intimidatio, Paralysis Inducement, Statistics Amplification (via Demon Back)
Tecnhiques:
- Apnea Rush: Controlling his breathing algorithm, he is capable of unleashing over a hundred punches under five seconds, this allows him to 'melt' walls, metal and even human bones. With this one move, he almost destroyed the entire Statue of Liberty.
- Vacuum Palm: a Palm strike technique that forces the target to breath in a small amount of air with less then 6% oxygen content knocking the target out almost instantly (this can also be used as a more destructive technique as Yanagi was able shatter very thick glass and escape prison)
- All the future convicts skills if someone makes profiles for them
- Demon Back: Can flex the muscles on his back to take the shape of a demonic face, exponentially boosting his power
AP: At least Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Everyone after seeing his spirit alone remembered his violent energy as well as scaring and surprising Yujiro; called the strongest even in the presence of Yujiro)
Durability: 7-C (Tanked 1000 tons of explosives without a scratch)
Powers: Aura Intimidatio
Baki Hanma
AP: Only reaches Low 7-C stats through his Demon Back
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Sorry about that I saw that as Hypersonic+. Although in his first key like I said the debate is up if he could be given Hypersonic+ reaction speed with the Sangan active.
That's also correct Yüichirō has a flat out feat we can use to back up the other reasoning. Essentially this is my view on how we can deal with the top tiers
Base Baki (Son of Ogre)- Likely Low 7-C
Base Yujiro, Base Yüichirō, Base Musashi, Base Pickle, Base Baki (End of SOO and Dou) - At least Low 7-C
Demon Back Baki, Yujiro and Yüichirō, Ultimate form Pickle, and possibly Musashi with his true blade - 7-C
That's also correct Yüichirō has a flat out feat we can use to back up the other reasoning. Essentially this is my view on how we can deal with the top tiers
Base Baki (Son of Ogre)- Likely Low 7-C
Base Yujiro, Base Yüichirō, Base Musashi, Base Pickle, Base Baki (End of SOO and Dou) - At least Low 7-C
Demon Back Baki, Yujiro and Yüichirō, Ultimate form Pickle, and possibly Musashi with his true blade - 7-C
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Makes sense
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If we get admin support I can start the changes
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Oh yeah, I forgot you talked about more than just Hanayama in that thread
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Idk, we're talking about another CRT
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Who will be making the additions to these pages?
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I will
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basically this Ant
AP: Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Able to easily defeat enemies he was pretty even with)
Resistances: Extreme resistance to Poison
Powers: Limited Pain Manipulation with Whip Strike, Aura Intimidatio, Paralysis Inducement, Statistics Amplification (via Demon Back)
Tecnhiques:
AP: At least Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Everyone after seeing his spirit alone remembered his violent energy as well as scaring and surprising Yujiro; called the strongest even in the presence of Yujiro)
Durability: 7-C (Tanked 1000 tons of explosives without a scratch)
Powers: Aura Intimidatio
Baki Hanma
AP: Only reaches Low 7-C stats through his Demon Back
AP: Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Able to easily defeat enemies he was pretty even with)
Resistances: Extreme resistance to Poison
Powers: Limited Pain Manipulation with Whip Strike, Aura Intimidatio, Paralysis Inducement, Statistics Amplification (via Demon Back)
Tecnhiques:
- Apnea Rush: Controlling his breathing algorithm, he is capable of unleashing over a hundred punches under five seconds, this allows him to 'melt' walls, metal and even human bones. With this one move, he almost destroyed the entire Statue of Liberty.
- Vacuum Palm: a Palm strike technique that forces the target to breath in a small amount of air with less then 6% oxygen content knocking the target out almost instantly (this can also be used as a more destructive technique as Yanagi was able shatter very thick glass and escape prison)
- All the future convicts skills if someone makes profiles for them
- Demon Back: Can flex the muscles on his back to take the shape of a demonic face, exponentially boosting his power
AP: At least Low 7-C, up to 7-C with Demon Back (Everyone after seeing his spirit alone remembered his violent energy as well as scaring and surprising Yujiro; called the strongest even in the presence of Yujiro)
Durability: 7-C (Tanked 1000 tons of explosives without a scratch)
Powers: Aura Intimidatio
Baki Hanma
AP: Only reaches Low 7-C stats through his Demon Back
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Basically that and everything we talked about in the previous thread. Also some changes need to be made to the keys. Currently characters like Jack and Baki do not have enough keys to make accurate profiles. Like I've said earlier I'm still extremely busy and that's why I couldn't make the changes, but I'm basically viewing all the changes that are made and will provide input on if something is missing. If they are not done by June I should have enough time to create accurate profiles myself but it would be appreciated if it was done before then and I can just go over them.
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Besides the 4 Hanma's, Musashi and Pickle need an extra key added to their profiles to indicate their strongest forms and should have stats matching the new changes. I also forget if Hanayama was changed to the correct stats, but if he wasn't he can be changed as well. He needs 3 keys as well if that hasn't been made.
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I fixed Hanayama a while ago, but he only has 2 keys. Why does he need another?
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He should have a key for his 15 year old self, in which he scales to young Baki at wall level likely higher. Then he needs one for his maximum tournament self. In which he would have the usual Large Building to City Block Stats, you could honestly even put possibly higher as he is capable of almost one shorting a lot of the people in that tier. Then he needs a Son Of Ogre to Baki Dou tier. In this he can be likely small town level. Yujiro states himself that Hanayama did hardcore training in secret and became strong enough to match a casual Pickle, give Yujiro a nose bleed and even pose a threat to Base Musashi.
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Well he already has the second two keys, I'll go ahead and make the first.
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You're good, I don't think there's anything else you need to do.
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Ok, I'll get on it when I can
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I also edited Baki and would like to know what I'm missing.
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Also should Yuichiro get some kind of ability for being able to manifest a spirit from, if so, what would it be?
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I'm unsure of Yüichirō as he is dead when this happens and cannot actually harm anyone with this power. But he could still get a power from it. For Baki I wanted to do it myself as A LOT needs to be changed. Just looking at it rn it's ok but he needs 5 keys in total to make the profile as accurate as possible. This is what I have for it if you just want to copy and paste into the profile.
Attack Potency: At least Wall Level (Can defeat dozens of thugs at once and is stronger than any creature on earth including the Yasha Ape) higher Post Gaia (After his fight with Gaia, Baki reached an even higher level of power that put him far above a Young Hanayama who could crush cars and metal doors with ease) | Large Building Level (After Training for 2 years Baki grew strong enough to easily defeat high level Shinshinkai students like Katou and Suedo and even the Shinogi brothers, the weaker of these two brothers was capable of injuring Hector Doyle, a death row convict) | At Least Large Building Level possibly City Block Level (Comparable to the likes Karou Hanayama, who is far stronger than any of the 5 Death Row Prisoners including Spec, who can severely damage the Statue of Liberty) higher post power-up and with Incomplete Demon Back (After having sex with Kouze, Baki's strength impressed Hanayama and allowed him to casually toy with Sikorsky and Yanagi. With his demon back he casually defeated Retsu Kaioh and Jack Hanma) | At Least City Block Level likely higher in base (Far stronger than before after recovering from the Raitai Tournament) Small Town Level with Demon Back (Defeated Oliva in a full out brawl and was capable of fighting on par with Pickle, forcing the latter to use a transformation that wasn't used against any of the other cast) | Small Town Level in Base, up to Town Level with Demon Back (Far stronger than before, with his demon back Baki managed to fight on par with Yujiro Hanma using his demon back and even make him bleed)
Speed: Superhuman (Capable of keeping up with the superhuman boxer Yuri and can blitz average street thugs) higher after fighting Gaia (Faster than Gaia who can react to bullets) | At Least Subsonic likely Supersonic (Far faster than Suedo and Katou but far below Doppo Orochi) | Supersonic+ (On the level of Retsu who should be above the Mach Punch) higher with incomplete demon back (his demon back boosted his speed enough to catch Jack Hanma off guard and defeat the latter) | At Least Supersonic+ (Faster than before, able to somewhat keep up with Oliva) Hypersonic+ with Demon Back (Faster than both full power Oliva and transformed Pickle who should both be faster than a Suppressed Yujiro Hanma) | At Least Hypersonic+ higher with Demon Back (Kept up with a serious Yujiro and fought on par with Musashi later in the series)
Durability: At Least Wall Level (Survived jumping off a cliff at an early age and could take multiples hits from Yuri and Hanayama) higher Post Gaia (Capable of no selling attacks from Yuri and Hanayama) | Large Building Level (Tanked barrages from Suedo and Kosho without injury) | At Least Large Building Level Likely City Block Level (Was fine after a devastating kick from Spec, only had a nose bleed after a drop kick from Sikorsky) higher post power up and with Incomplete Demon Back (Should scale to his Attack Potency) | At Least City Block Level likely higher in Base (Capable of taking a head on tackle and punch from Oliva and getting back up) Small Town Level with Demon Back (Took a barrage of attacks from Oliva head on, survived multiple attacks from Pickle during their fight) | Small Town Level in Base, up to Town Level with Demon Back (Can take attacks from Yujiro Hanma)
Keys: 13 Years Old | Beginning of Series | Maximum Tournmament Arc - New Grappler Baki | Son of Ogre | EOS Son of Ogre - Dou
Attack Potency: At least Wall Level (Can defeat dozens of thugs at once and is stronger than any creature on earth including the Yasha Ape) higher Post Gaia (After his fight with Gaia, Baki reached an even higher level of power that put him far above a Young Hanayama who could crush cars and metal doors with ease) | Large Building Level (After Training for 2 years Baki grew strong enough to easily defeat high level Shinshinkai students like Katou and Suedo and even the Shinogi brothers, the weaker of these two brothers was capable of injuring Hector Doyle, a death row convict) | At Least Large Building Level possibly City Block Level (Comparable to the likes Karou Hanayama, who is far stronger than any of the 5 Death Row Prisoners including Spec, who can severely damage the Statue of Liberty) higher post power-up and with Incomplete Demon Back (After having sex with Kouze, Baki's strength impressed Hanayama and allowed him to casually toy with Sikorsky and Yanagi. With his demon back he casually defeated Retsu Kaioh and Jack Hanma) | At Least City Block Level likely higher in base (Far stronger than before after recovering from the Raitai Tournament) Small Town Level with Demon Back (Defeated Oliva in a full out brawl and was capable of fighting on par with Pickle, forcing the latter to use a transformation that wasn't used against any of the other cast) | Small Town Level in Base, up to Town Level with Demon Back (Far stronger than before, with his demon back Baki managed to fight on par with Yujiro Hanma using his demon back and even make him bleed)
Speed: Superhuman (Capable of keeping up with the superhuman boxer Yuri and can blitz average street thugs) higher after fighting Gaia (Faster than Gaia who can react to bullets) | At Least Subsonic likely Supersonic (Far faster than Suedo and Katou but far below Doppo Orochi) | Supersonic+ (On the level of Retsu who should be above the Mach Punch) higher with incomplete demon back (his demon back boosted his speed enough to catch Jack Hanma off guard and defeat the latter) | At Least Supersonic+ (Faster than before, able to somewhat keep up with Oliva) Hypersonic+ with Demon Back (Faster than both full power Oliva and transformed Pickle who should both be faster than a Suppressed Yujiro Hanma) | At Least Hypersonic+ higher with Demon Back (Kept up with a serious Yujiro and fought on par with Musashi later in the series)
Durability: At Least Wall Level (Survived jumping off a cliff at an early age and could take multiples hits from Yuri and Hanayama) higher Post Gaia (Capable of no selling attacks from Yuri and Hanayama) | Large Building Level (Tanked barrages from Suedo and Kosho without injury) | At Least Large Building Level Likely City Block Level (Was fine after a devastating kick from Spec, only had a nose bleed after a drop kick from Sikorsky) higher post power up and with Incomplete Demon Back (Should scale to his Attack Potency) | At Least City Block Level likely higher in Base (Capable of taking a head on tackle and punch from Oliva and getting back up) Small Town Level with Demon Back (Took a barrage of attacks from Oliva head on, survived multiple attacks from Pickle during their fight) | Small Town Level in Base, up to Town Level with Demon Back (Can take attacks from Yujiro Hanma)
Keys: 13 Years Old | Beginning of Series | Maximum Tournmament Arc - New Grappler Baki | Son of Ogre | EOS Son of Ogre - Dou
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That's not true.
He didnt know the Xiaolee for example (the technique of Kaku Kaioh). He mastered it AFTER he saw it. He knew the concept of rigidity behind this technique and the name (he said some examples like a baby surviving a fall from a high height and an adult breaking his arm when he only falls to ground) , but he didnt know how to use it nor did he see it previously.
He didnt know the Xiaolee for example (the technique of Kaku Kaioh). He mastered it AFTER he saw it. He knew the concept of rigidity behind this technique and the name (he said some examples like a baby surviving a fall from a high height and an adult breaking his arm when he only falls to ground) , but he didnt know how to use it nor did he see it previously.
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