Yu-Gi-Oh Content Revisions Steamrolling

[SomebodyData]

I will just wait for Ognunbali's reply to what Zencha said. Zencha is still explaining things to him

I want to ask why you still support Zencha, after he agreed that your reasoning was inaccurate?

snip

While you give some good context here, you don't actually justify your points. You even admit to ditching the first point after realizing it doesn't work, and it sounds similarily for your second point, so what argument is there left to be had?

 

[SomebodyData]

If I'm understanding this correctly, there's 2 parts for this.

Part 1 is that Super Fusion got "absorbed" by the dragon Yubel so it scales to 2-C. And part 2 is that cards (in this case Super Fusion) scale to their users.

Now the problem that I'm having with these two is that, first, why would we assume that the Super Fusion card got absorbed by the dragon? It doesn't really make sense to me, and not how cards function in general throughout the series from what I can recall (granted it's been close to a decade since I last watched YuGiOh). Yubel just used Super Fusion on the dragon, I don't understand why we would jump to the conclusion that it somehow absorbed the card.

And the second part of the cards scaling to their users seems like a leap too. The only time where the energy and bond, and whatever, happened between cards and their uses were in direct cases when that specific card had emotional value to the user. Random cards scaling to their users is very demonstrably just not true, because, pretty much, every single person in the YuGiOh verse uses cards, and they're very obviously just regular humans at the end of the day. The argument that "random bandits" also isn't very strong because this was back in the Egypt days, when "cards" didn't even exists, and the monsters there were directly tied to the soul/emotion to their master. Even in the scans provided the bandit's emotions were so strong that it physically manifested the monster from his soul, which wasn't what was happening with Yubel.

And I don't see why we would circle this back to Yubel scaling to Super Fusion's effect.

While Zencha admits to leaving the first point behind, I think some clarification here is necessary since it shows the issues with the scaling rather clearly. If what Zencha said previously is correct- why would Yubel normally scale to 2-C? And why is it that her physical body is destroyed after a significantly weaker explosion, leaving only her soul fused with Jaden?

And if it's not correct, then there is no reason to scale to 2-C.

 

[Zencha9]

While Zencha admits to leaving the first point behind, I think some clarification here is necessary since it shows the issues with the scaling rather clearly. If what Zencha said previously is correct- why would Yubel normally scale to 2-C? And why is it that her physical body is destroyed after a significantly weaker explosion, leaving only her soul fused with Jaden?

And if it's not correct, then there is no reason to scale to 2-C. After all, makes no sense for a 2-C character to need to do so much prep if they could have just done it themselves.

you still to this post has yet to prove that her body died, either prove your claim or don't even bother

you know you can have 2-C AP without having 2-C range right ? this has beena thing for a while in battle boarding especially vs battle wiki

 

[SomebodyData]

you still to this post has yet to prove that her body died, either prove your claim or don't even bother

you know you can have 2-C AP without having 2-C range right ? this has beena thing for a while in battle boarding especially vs battle wiki

Not sure you can say that when you still haven't actually provided a scan of them taking the explosion head-on. Though the fact that Jaden states Yubel only exists in his soul now and immediately cuts to a flashback of post-Fusion Yubel before heading to the explosion (5:12 - 5:39) is rather on the nose.

Weird how you never actually proved her AP scaled to her durability, either.

 

[SomebodyData]

Oh. I likely misunderstood then. I thought that @Ogbunabali and @Elizhaa agreed with @SomebodyData.

Me too, the thread is about the issues with scaling, which Ognunabali seems to also disagree with. If they disagree for different reasons, that's fine, but that wouldn't mean they support Zencha here.

 

[Imaginym]

So, what I'm getting is:

1. We lack footage of them experiencing the explosion?
2. We lack footage making it clear if they "died", or rather, if their bodies were destroyed or not?
(As a note, I find body destruction a strange criteria here; Isn't Spiritual Power a thing in Yu-Gi-Oh!? If something certainly "killed" someone in this 'verse, wouldn't it thus get rid of, or at least damage their souls? Although, I suppose it'd be a bit weird to say that an explosion from Super Polymerization should affect souls without first giving evidence that it affects them by default, or does so in this case; I don't know which useage of Super Polymerization is the relevant context here.)

Also:

And why is it that her physical body is destroyed after a significantly weaker explosion, leaving only her soul fused with Jaden?

My memory of the episodes is not entirely clear.
Which footage or content are you referring to here?

 

[SomebodyData]

So, what I'm getting is:

1. We lack footage of them experiencing the explosion?
2. We lack footage making it clear if they "died", or rather, if their bodies were destroyed or not?
(As a note, I find body destruction a strange criteria here; Isn't Spiritual Power a thing in Yu-Gi-Oh!? If something certainly "killed" someone in this 'verse, wouldn't it thus get rid of, or at least damage their souls? Although, I suppose it'd be a bit weird to say that an explosion from Super Polymerization should affect souls without first giving evidence that it affects them by default, or does so in this case; I don't know which useage of Super Polymerization is the relevant context here.)

Also:

My memory of the episodes is not entirely clear.
Which footage or content are you referring to here?

Yeah pretty much. The only issue is that for scaling, Zencha would have to prove issue 1 did happen. (I don't think it's ever stated, in regards to your killing people question)

I'm referring to the Super Poly explosion immediately to Episode 155, around 20 minutes in after Super Poly fuses Yubel's and Jaden's souls.

Also while you're here,

....I thought it was common knowledge that Jaden & Yubel's souls ended up fused at the end of that duel.

Could someone link/quote the posts which indicated, clearly, that Yubel &/or Jaden's souls died during the fusion explosion, please?

ask @SomebodyData i sometimes have no idea what's going through his head

^Just so you know, Zencha is either just strawmanning me completely or can't read. Never claimed they didn't fuse, and frankly, am getting tired of having to clarify this.

 

[Zencha9]

Not sure you can say that when you still haven't actually provided a scan of them taking the explosion head-on. Though the fact that Jaden states Yubel only exists in his soul now and immediately cuts to a flashback of post-Fusion Yubel before heading to the explosion (5:12 - 5:39) is rather on the nose.

Weird how you never actually proved her AP scaled to her durability, either.

maybe it's because super poly fused their souls eh? also a part of yubel is literally being fused how is she not gonna get affcted tell me
it narratively doesn't make sense because jaden would die which goes against yubel's motivation and as i stated jaden has never shown to able to regen in the entire show nor was he implied
and if you're going with the yubel argument then no yubel can probably regen but she's only a part of his soul not the other way around
so with the flashback you're just using your own headcanon that contradicts the show

Yeah pretty much. The only issue is that for scaling, Zencha would have to prove issue 1 did happen. (I don't think it's ever stated, in regards to your killing people question)

I'm referring to the Super Poly explosion immediately to Episode 155, around 20 minutes in after Super Poly fuses Yubel's and Jaden's souls.

Also while you're here,

again ignoring how the show treats this as a new activation and such as a new spell/fusion

^Just so you know, Zencha is either just strawmanning me completely or can't read. Never claimed they didn't fuse, and frankly, am getting tired of having to clarify this.

i never said i just thought that @Imaginym said that it's common knowledge that they fused rather than died

 

[Zencha9]

Me too, the thread is about the issues with scaling, which Ognunabali seems to also disagree with. If they disagree for different reasons, that's fine, but that wouldn't mean they support Zencha here.

btw they do support my interpretation of the events it's just that they're reviewing the reason for the scaling if it's enough or not

 

[Zaratthustra]

Sincerely, looking at the scene to me it looks like Yubel flew with Jaden straight into the explosion. I could see why it's under the question mark as it doesn't show/say more but can't this be a "possible" situation to scale (x tier, possible 2-C)? because to me it seems like both situation could be true and false but none holding enough evidence to see which. In the end, it's a matter of perspective and how each sees how it went.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Zaratthustra.

 

[Zencha9]

Sincerely, looking at the scene to me it looks like Yubel flew with Jaden straight into the explosion. I could see why it's under the question mark as it doesn't show/say more but can't this be a "possible" situation to scale (x tier, possible 2-C)? because to me it seems like both situation could be true and false but none holding enough evidence to see which. In the end, it's a matter of perspective and how each sees how it went.

i think that there's no way that they died mainly because

1. the first fusion (the one that was gonna fuse the 12 dimensions) was stated by yubel that they would survive it it's her entire motivation that she keeps him all to her self and if you're gonna ask to how jaden would survive i would say because he's surrounded by yubel's energy it's the thing that heeps him flying also to make sure that this makes since her aura was able null the soul manip power of the sacred beasts
2. no other alternative makes any sense narratively jaden was never stated to die during the 2nd fusion (the one that fused his soul with yubel) and he straight up stated that he won't kill himself prior the the fusion after already setting the trap that was going to change the fusion i.e meaning he already knew what would happen
3. again no other alternative makes sense because her avatar is being fused and we also see the lasers coming out of her body meaning that she would be at the center of the explosion and jaden is literally a normal human he doesn't have any regen or anything like that and if you're gonna say that yubel could make him regenrate since she has mid godly in her profile then that can't be because she's a part of his soul not the other way around and she can't resurrect the dead
4. and if you're gonna use SD's argument saying that sho's wish brought judai back then it's clearly false since not only is sho a normal human he also made the wish after he saw the meteor and the meteor was judai

i really don't want this to drag on but i need to make sure that this makes sense in story since judai dying doesn't make any sense and every thing SD has brought up has been debunked

 

[Ogbunabali]

i mean yeah they're regular humans sure it's just that they have strong energy that cannot be manifest except with cards because as darkness stated they mirror human souls for example the zane vs jesse duel both are normal humans (sure jesse can see spirits buit can't do anything superhuman) and they needed jesse and zane to make billions of energy in an insant zane and jesse cannot exert such a force by themselves like they can't just charge and punch with the even half the force of that but they can do it via duel monsters via dueling that's why dueling is such a big thing because it's as explained duelists amps monsters and monsters amp duelists to that point, and just to nail that human minds are overpowered they are the things that made zorc have infinite energy anf this is not hyperbolic since he does state it multiple times that all of humanity gives him power and ever since he showed up he was never shown to be tired and just as an extra bit to make you feel absolutely sure humans created the spirit world which is at very minimum Low 2-C

I mean, alright.

also cards not existing back in egypt that's simpy not true since the creation of the universe began with "duel monsters" and darkness verbatim states and shows that "duel monsters" are the "kas" in egypt by showing pegasus recreating kas and legends into cards

I mean, this is demonstrably false they used to trap them in the stone tablet things (couldn't find a better video but it does the job well enough). It's either supposed to be metaphorical, or a retcon, in which case it doesn't change much since the random bandit thing was within the context of the previous canon.

also no monster don't need to be tied to their souls for example diabound is a random ka born from kul elna's massacre and has nothing to do with bakura yet bakura amps him so ******* hard he becomes god level

I mean, your own link contractions you. It outright says that the spirits of the village created it ("ka" in Egyptian mysticism means a soul, aspect of it specifically).


But regardless, I don't see how this response circles back to Yubel being 2-C in base.

 

[Zencha9]

I mean, this is demonstrably false they used to trap them in the stone tablet things (couldn't find a better video but it does the job well enough). It's either supposed to be metaphorical, or a retcon, in which case it doesn't change much since the random bandit thing was within the context of the previous canon.

how does humans sealing spirits in stone contradict anything ? i don't follow also we are shown straight up how the universe was created since it's from the pov of darkness and EVEN if you don't buy that atlantis exists thousands of years before egypt and the book aknadin used was before the creating of the millennium items(which are what seals kas)

I mean, your own link contractions you. It outright says that the spirits of the village created it ("ka" in Egyptian mysticism means a soul, aspect of it specifically).

spirits of dead villagers*, my bad didn't show what aknadin and shada saw to conclude that basically he saw the bones ie the souls of the dead tha created diabound

i mean it would give her super poly amp the same super poly who has energy that can spread around and affect the 12 dimensions i.e 2-C and also after discovering that a part of her body will be fused gave further backing to her scaling to super poly and the laser coming out of her body
also we don't accept the feat as an overtime thing so super poly would've happened right there and then inside yubel so how would we treat this? do we assume she's gonna run away? that doesn't make sense like how do we fix the plot if we go with super poly not scaling

 

[Ogbunabali]

how does humans sealing spirits in stone contradict anything ? i don't follow also we are shown straight up how the universe was created since it's from the pov of darkness and EVEN if you don't buy that atlantis exists thousands of years before egypt and the book aknadin used was before the creating of the millennium items(which are what seals kas)

It contradicts it because the guy says that the cards literally existed in the same way they do in the modern times, before the universe was a thing. Which, as I showed, is demonstrably false.

It's either a metaphor, or a retcon, so this point doesn't matter in any case.

spirits of dead villagers*, my bad didn't show what aknadin and shada saw to conclude that basically he saw the bones ie the souls of the dead tha created diabound

I mean, don't see how this changes what I said.

i mean it would give her super poly amp the same super poly who has energy that can spread around and affect the 12 dimensions i.e 2-C and also after discovering that a part of her body will be fused gave further backing to her scaling to super poly and the laser coming out of her body

Why?

also we don't accept the feat as an overtime thing so super poly would've happened right there and then inside yubel so how would we treat this? do we assume she's gonna run away? that doesn't make sense like how do we fix the plot if we go with super poly not scaling

Not sure how this is particularly relevant, she was going to have a Super Fusion God (or whatever its name was) that does her biding (or was going to be her), so I don't see why she wouldn't use it to protect them.

Plus we not knowing what is going to exactly happen is not a very convincing arguing for someone being multi universal.

 

[Zencha9]

It contradicts it because the guy says that the cards literally existed in the same way they do in the modern times, before the universe was a thing. Which, as I showed, is demonstrably false.

It's either a metaphor, or a retcon, so this point doesn't matter in any case.

yeah and he says it was fate that made humans use the cards nightshroud also doesn't lie as he was talking about how humans gave him power why would he lie half through also it's not that wierd given how the series is based on card games heck even the spirits themselves in an alt universe play themselves on the field even though there's no humans or machines etc

Why?

because it's an established rule in the verse? why give zane amps but not yubel

Not sure how this is particularly relevant, she was going to have a Super Fusion God (or whatever its name was) that does her biding (or was going to be her), so I don't see why she wouldn't use it to protect them.

Plus we not knowing what is going to exactly happen is not a very convincing arguing for someone being multi universal.

it's like this the 12 cards are inside yubel she uses the 12 lasers to psychically merg the universes meaning that the super fusion god won't appear until the fusion of the universes is done

 

[Ogbunabali]

yeah and he says it was fate that made humans use the cards nightshroud also doesn't lie as he was talking about how humans gave him power why would he lie half through also it's not that wierd given how the series is based on card games heck even the spirits themselves in an alt universe play themselves on the field even though there's no humans or machines etc

This has nothing to do with lying, just inconsistency.

because it's an established rule in the verse? why give zane amps but not yubel

Except it is not?

The only time where it is a direct amp between a card and it's holder is when there is extremely emotional bond between them (friendship between Judai and Neos, fear between the random bandits and the manifestation of their some). And there is an unspecified amount of some vague description of "duel energy" that is sometimes maybe in some way released.

How does any of that equal to what you say.

You keep claiming these things, but you never give any actual explanation to why we should ever assume that.

it's like this the 12 cards are inside yubel she uses the 12 lasers to psychically merg the universes meaning that the super fusion god won't appear until the fusion of the universes is done

Ignoring that this is still just speculation, she literally calls the Super Fusion God the combiner of the universes, meaning it was going to do the merging, meaning it was going to be a thing before the actual merging occurs.

 

[Zencha9]

This has nothing to do with lying, just inconsistency.

eh i don't see it that way especially given that we don't know about what the card is even made from

Except it is not?

The only time where it is a direct amp between a card and it's holder is when there is extremely emotional bond between them (friendship between Judai and Neos, fear between the random bandits and the manifestation of their some). And there is an unspecified amount of some vague description of "duel energy" that is sometimes maybe in some way released.

How does any of that equal to what you say.

You keep claiming these things, but you never give any actual explanation to why we should ever assume that

it's thoughts or emotions just how the spirit world was created it's not just bond or hatred given that bakura doesn't care about diabound he just uses it as a tool so yubel would have due to her love for judai/wanting to hurt him

Ignoring that this is still just speculation, she literally calls the Super Fusion God the combiner of the universes, meaning it was going to do the merging, meaning it was going to be a thing before the actual merging occurs.

yeah he's the card that was going to fuse the 12 dimensions by being fused into except if you're saying he's gonna come before the fusion which wouldn't make any sense since that's not how fusion works at it's core and the dimensions are already getting pushed by super poly so it doesn't make sense

 

[Imaginym]

yeah he's the card that was goin to fuse the 12 dimensions except if you're saying he's gonna come before the fusion which wouldn't make any sense since that's not how fusion works at it's core

WOULDN'T it make sense for Super Fusion God to be summoned & do stuff before the dimensions are fused?

The materials for Super Fusion God were 1 monster of each level from 1 through 12. When was it indicated the Fusion of Super Fusion God would use the 12 Dimensions as Fusion Materials?
Given we have an already established set of thematic materials for Super Fusion God, I'm not confident we have reason to assume the 12 Dimensions were being used as Fusion Materials at the time.

Though, to the credit of the case for the 12 Dimensions being fused to create SFG, we do see destruction starting to happen in the dimensions/worlds/whatevers we've seen so far.

 

[Zencha9]

WOULDN'T it make sense for Super Fusion God to be summoned & do stuff before the dimensions are fused?

The materials for Super Fusion God were 1 monster of each level from 1 through 12. When was it indicated the Fusion of Super Fusion God would use the 12 Dimensions as Fusion Materials?
Given we have an already established set of thematic materials for Super Fusion God, I'm not confident we have reason to assume the 12 Dimensions were being used as Fusion Materials at the time.

Though, to the credit of the case for the 12 Dimensions being fused to create SFG, we do see destruction starting to happen in the dimensions/worlds/whatevers we've seen so far.

no it's not fusion never works that way and the feat was going to happen immediately
also yeah the dimensions are already getting pushed

 

[Imaginym]

no it's not fusion never works that way

Never works which way?
I have confidence in you, so I assume you don't mean by taking multiple monsters & using them as material to summon a monster.
The only thing unusual about summoning SFG by using 12 monsters with 1 of each of the levels from 1 through 12 is the quantity & specific level requirements.

and the feat was going to happen immediately
also yeah the dimensions are already getting pushed

Evidence other than the dimensions seemingly being moved?

 

[Zencha9]

Never works which way?
I have confidence in you, so I assume you don't mean by taking multiple monsters & using them as material to summon a monster.
The only thing unusual about summoning SFG by using 12 monsters with 1 of each of the levels from 1 through 12 is the quantity & specific level requirements.

fusion happens when 1 monster and another fuse they create a new monster how the **** is SFG pushing the 12 dimensions when he wasn't even created yet

Evidence other than the dimensions seemingly being moved?

that's all i need as i explained above it makes no sense

 

[Imaginym]

fusion happens when 1 monster and another fuse they create a new monster how the **** is SFG pushing the 12 dimensions when he wasn't even created yet

Ah, yeah, I suppose it is questionable that the dimensions were being moved if they weren't already being fused.
Although, aren't there other instances where, even before a monster is summoned, the initiation or process of its summon has effects on a given area? Storms or rocks flying up or something? Of course, on a lesser scale.
How do we know these effects were specifically the dimensions being moved?
As opposed to these effects being as a result of the summoning of SFG happening, just with a huge range, since Super Polymerization is a very powerful card, & SFG is a very powerful monster?

 

[Zencha9]

wait a sec my version doesn't mention that the fusion god is the one who's gonna fuse the dimensions

 

[Zencha9]

Ah, yeah, I suppose it is questionable that the dimensions were being moved if they weren't already being fused.
Although, aren't there other instances where, even before a monster is summoned, the initiation or process of its summon has effects on a given area? Storms or rocks flying up or something? Of course, on a lesser scale.
How do we know these effects were specifically the dimensions being moved?
As opposed to these effects being as a result of the summoning of SFG happening, just with a huge range, since Super Polymerization is a very powerful card, & SFG is a very powerful monster?

because yubel specifies that it's because of super poly that she controls the universe otherwise she would've used a regular poly

 

[Imaginym]

wait a sec my version doesn't mention that the fusion god is the one who's gonna fuse the dimensions

I saw this linked earlier in the thread:
Where is your link from, @Zencha9?

Ignoring that this is still just speculation, she literally calls the Super Fusion God the combiner of the universes, meaning it was going to do the merging, meaning it was going to be a thing before the actual merging occurs.

Where is your link from, @Ogbunabali ?
We may need a transcript/translation of the Japanese dialogue.

because yubel specifies that it's because of super poly that she controls the universe otherwise she would've used a regular poly

Link to scans, or episode with timestamps that shows this relevant dialogue, please?
Also, you say "that she controls the universe"; Did she say universe, singular?

 

[Zencha9]

@Imaginym
got it from a site called nyaa si translation from coldawn
because the universe as whole is stated to be a 12 dimensional universe we went over this in the 2-C thread

 

[Imaginym]

@Imaginym
got it from a site called nyaa si translation from coldawn
because the universe as whole is stated to be a 12 dimensional universe we went over this in the 2-C thread

You mean it's argued that it's a 12-Dimensional Universe comprised of multiple seperate Dimensions/Worlds/Universes, as opposed to simply being 12 seperate Dimensions/Worlds/Universes that coexist &/or are connected, but are not -As just those 12- distinctly part of a singular whole?

 

[Zencha9]

You mean it's argued that it's a 12-Dimensional Universe comprised of multiple seperate Dimensions/Worlds/Universes, as opposed to simply being 12 seperate Dimensions/Worlds/Universes that coexist &/or are connected, but are not -As just those 12- distinctly part of a singular whole?

it's stated that the 12 Universes exists within the 12 Dimensions
i even tired to check if it's tier 1 because it's a space within a space within a space

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData

What do you think about Ogbunabali's arguments?

 

[SomebodyData]

@SomebodyData

What do you think about Ogbunabali's arguments?

I think Ogbunbali is seeing the issues I've had with this thread. A lot of Zencha's points are either speculation or not even tied to the questions at hand.

Also

@Imaginym
got it from a site called nyaa si translation from coldawn
because the universe as whole is stated to be a 12 dimensional universe we went over this in the 2-C thread

Full stop. Are you telling me, this entire time, you've been using translations from a dubious source?

You realize a major point for your argument in the initial 2-C thread that you kept stating was that your subtitles were more accurate than the Crunchyroll ones, right?

 

[Zencha9]

I think Ogbunbali is seeing the issues I've had with this thread. A lot of Zencha's points are either speculation or not even tied to the questions at hand.

i'm sorry but you're the last one to talk about speculation with the sho's wish thing and judai lied and using a title that has question marks in it as a backing
also none of it speculation everything is backed up by the show

Full stop. Are you telling me, this entire time, you've been using translations from a dubious source?

You realize a major point for your argument in the initial 2-C thread that you kept stating was that your subtitles were more accurate than the Crunchyroll ones, right?

i double checked the stuff the 12 dimensional universes with alonik iirc it's exactly the same translation (remember the videos alonik translated in the og 2-C thread? it's that) it's @Ogbunabali's translation that is iffy since iirc that translations is really old meanwhile the one i used is new since it's using CR videos for higher quality
edit also i'm double checking the translations right now

 

[Zencha9]

also just noticed that this doesn't make any sense on it's own since yubel is trying to end all of existence not create them

 

[Ogbunabali]

it's thoughts or emotions just how the spirit world was created it's not just bond or hatred given that bakura doesn't care about diabound he just uses it as a tool

Yes.

so yubel would have due to her love for judai/wanting to hurt him

Again, you keep stating this, but you're not providing any reason for why we should assume this.

I've haven't seen this implied in the episode I watched, in any scan linked in this discussion, nor even any argument as to why.

What evidence, or argument, do you have that makes the effect that Super Fusion would do specifically scale personally to Yubel. Every piece of scan linked specifically makes the dueling energy thing is when it is a specific card/monster tied to the holder.

yeah he's the card that was going to fuse the 12 dimensions by being fused into except if you're saying he's gonna come before the fusion which wouldn't make any sense since that's not how fusion works at it's core and the dimensions are already getting pushed by super poly so it doesn't make sense

I mean, I disagree. She fuses the monsters to summon the Super Fusion God, which proceeds to fuse the universes. That makes more sense to me.

And this is a supporting thing at best anyway. It's not the main issue, it won't matter regardless if we don't get through whether Super Fusion scales to Yubel or not thing first.

So I think its best to leave this for now.

 

[Zencha9]

Again, you keep stating this, but you're not providing any reason for why we should assume this.

I've haven't seen this implied in the episode I watched, in any scan linked in this discussion, nor even any argument as to why.

What evidence, or argument, do you have that makes the effect that Super Fusion would do specifically scale personally to Yubel. Every piece of scan linked specifically makes the dueling energy thing is when it is a specific card/monster tied to the holder.

maybe i didn't explain myself correctly sorry i'm not a native speaker but what i'm basically saying is that the amps aren't consensual they can be one sided just like bakura and zane since they have malice and don't really care about the monsters themselves they just want to reach their goals and because of monsters mirroring a duelist's soul the monsters get amped(sine neither bakura nor zane are connected to their monsters) and so do humans because it goes both ways and if you're not sold that every card gets the amp then look no further than yugi yeah yeah he cares about his cards but it is just to show that every card gets amped by emotion amps

I mean, I disagree. She fuses the monsters to summon the Super Fusion God, which proceeds to fuse the universes. That makes more sense to me.

And this is a supporting thing at best anyway. It's not the main issue, it won't matter regardless if we don't get through whether Super Fusion scales to Yubel or not thing first.

So I think its best to leave this for now

my issue is that the universe are already getting fused before he even came and if that was true then she wouldn't have needed to use super poly she could've just used regular poly which again doesn't make sense since she states directly that super poly is the thing that controls the the 12 dimensional universe which would make the super refer to his creation "fusing the dimensions" rather than him paradoxically fusing the dimenions before being even born
but sure i'll leave this

 

[Ogbunabali]

maybe i didn't explain myself correctly sorry i'm not a native speaker but what i'm basically saying is that the amps aren't consensual they can be one sided just like bakura and zane since they have malice and don't really care about the monsters themselves they just want to reach their goals and because of monsters mirroring a duelist's soul the monsters get amped(sine neither bakura nor zane are connected to their monsters) and so do humans because it goes both ways and if you're not sold that every card gets the amp then look no further than yugi yeah yeah he cares about his cards but it is just to show that every card gets amped by emotion amps

Again, why does this scale to Yubel and Super Fusion?

 

[Zencha9]

Again, why does this scale to Yubel and Super Fusion?

because even if we assumme the super fusion god is the one who's gonna yeet the universes even though it doesn't make sense since he wasn't created yet
super poly by itself affected and was fusing the 12 universes
and it's created from darkness i.e spirit energy in yugioh terms

 

[SomebodyData]

i'm sorry but you're the last one to talk about speculation with the sho's wish thing and judai lied and using a title that has question marks in it as a backing
also none of it is speculation everything is backed up by the show

We see the Sho thing happen tho, I think you even provided a clip of it earlier? Even if we don't agree with the scaling, we literally see Jaden die even before the redirected Super poly explosion so he did technically lie.

i double checked the stuff the 12 dimensional universes with alonik iirc it's exactly the same translation (remember the videos alonik translated in the og 2-C thread? it's that) it's @Ogbunabali's translation that is iffy since iirc that translations is really old meanwhile the one i used is new since it's using CR videos for higher quality
edit also i'm double checking the translations right now

Well the translation argument hinged on a couple of details only present in the dubious translation, though this ages the previous thread, it is good to hear you're not using it anymore.

 

[Zencha9]

We see the Sho thing happen tho, I think you even provided a clip of it earlier? Even if we don't agree with the scaling, we literally see Jaden die even before the redirected Super poly explosion so he did technically lie.

The problem with sho's wish is that Sho makes the wish after he sees the meteor (the meteor being jaden) as it's a traditional thing that praying when a shooting stars happen grants your wish
Won't address the jaden thing so we'll just go in circles like before

Well the translation argument hinged on a couple of details only present in the dubious translation, though this ages the previous thread, it is good to hear you're not using it anymore

I double checked and yeah neither is correct my version

"十二次元宇宙を統一せし超融合神が　ここに誕生する！"
is the line;
it's the Super Fusion God uniting the twelve dimensions that will now come to life! /be born

My version doesn't include the fusion god uniting the dimensions
And the other version has him creating them instead of destroying them

 

[Antvasima]

@SomebodyData @Ogbunabali @Confluctor @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000

Can you all try to reach an agreement together here please?