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Yu-gi-oh! Anime Upgrades

1. something something Crystron Halkifibrax, though uh, mind telling me who they are then ?
2. Well, wouldn't Crimson Dragon still be > ?
also i don't see how that would widen the gap tbh
 
  1. The Crystrons?
  2. That relies on Crimson Dragon being the God Tier of the verse, which has become a problem if you try to scale it to the Signer Dragons or etc.
    Aporia >> the 3 androids >> individual Meklords > Antimony. Adding an extra > between the androids and Aporia just makes the gap bigger. You could try making the argument that TCM Antimony is different from Antimony regularly, but then BBT Yusei doesn't scale.
 
1, again, i only kow Halkifibrax
2. Being superior to the mere process of Acell Summoning doesn't really need that tho

Why would the 3 androids be superior to individual Meklords ?
 
also, Antimony fought Yusei 9 episodes after the latter bested Aporia's Meklords
 
  1. It's just a Synchro Summoning focused archetype, mostly known for the link monster since it's pretty broken.
  2. It does when you're trying to scale it to Stardust, which is inferior to the process of Accel Synchro summoning.
  3. TCM Antimony, yeah, hence your scaling line becomes more of a circle. You can resolve that by arguing Antimony's base =/= TCM Antimony, but then BBT Yusei doesn't scale again.
 
1. uhm, so what's your point ?
2. why would he have to be weaker than the summoning process ?
3. What do you even mean with TCM ?
 
  1. Originally, it was just to debunk the process of Delta Accel Synchro Summoning is High 4-C instead of scaling it to T.G. as it would show you don't have to be High 4-C to summon it. Though along the way, I've just remembered Alt. Future Yusei has a Delta Accel Synchro monster without having even Clear Mind, so...
  2. Because Delta Accel Synchro Monsters > Delta Summoning Process (Antimony's Accel Synchro monster couldn't cause the star to supernova) > Accel Synchro Monsters > Synchro Monsters. Where are you getting Stardust > Delta Accel Synchro Summoning anyways?
  3. Top Clear Mind.
 
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hey just wanted to point out that the alterate version of yusei that uses cosmic blazar acquired top clear mind and used delta accel synchro to summon cosmic blazar
btw is it possible to add a key for altrnate yusei with cosmic blazar ?
 
In this site, usually, alternative future versions are their own profiles. That said, I don't believe it was ever mentioned he had Top Clear Mind in the alternative future (Especially given that would mean no Meklord Genocide) and the fact that the only reason he learned even normal Clear Mind was that Bruno / Antimony went into the past to teach him.
 
considering that Blazar is a Delta Acell Monster, it's heavily implied that future Yusei had achived the state, meawhile present Yusei most likely doesn't have it because of Z-one messing with the timeline
 
  1. That seems to be "A is true because of B, therefore B is true because of A" reasoning? It's also contradicted by Crystron Phoenix's existence.
    It's also debunked by Z-One himself, remember how he had to learn Clear Mind to survive the Meklords, even after manipulating his own mind to copy Alt. Future Yusei's way of thinking?
    The only reason why the main timeline version of Yusei had Clear Mind was because of Z-One.
 
why are you using Crystron Phoenix when he doesn't exist in the 5d's universe am i missing something ?
 
SomebodyData said:
  1. That seems to be "A is true because of B, therefore B is true because of A" reasoning? It's also contradicted by Crystron Phoenix's existence.
Click to expand...
just checked, Crystrons don't even appear in the anime at all

SomebodyData said:
It's also debunked by Z-One himself, remember how he had to learn Clear Mind to survive the Meklords, even after manipulating his own mind to copy Alt. Future Yusei's way of thinking?
Click to expand...
copying someone's way of thinking doesn't make you become the person

SomebodyData said:
The only reason why the main timeline version of Yusei had Clear Mind was because of Z-One.
Click to expand...
and the only reason Z-One knew of clear mind was because of Yusei

it's a casual loop time paradox
 
Zencha

Arc-V retroactively made cards that appeared in OCG canon, though some changes were admittedly put in for the anime ver. none of them went as far as changing the type of monsters.

Overlord

^Same as above, also still A means B is true, thus B means A is true logic.

In Z-One's case, it actually did. Though regardless, Clear Mind is dependent on the thinking of the person, so it matters to this.

That, or Z-One messing with the timeline made Yusei not obtain Clear Mind isn't true. As far as I can tell, it wasn't stated that Z-One learned about Clear Mind from Yusei.
 
Arc-V's plot is complicated, but it does take place in the same 'universe' (Or universes in this case), as 5Ds did until he fractured it.

Can you do me a favor? Can you make a scaling tree showing how Paradox's Stardust is High 4-C?
 
1-you can pay 500 bucks to explain how arc-v fits in the yugioh univese and i still won't go in depth with it
but to make things short each one of the dimension have their summoning method and the other methods don't exist in their universes (except the standard dimension)
if we assume that arc-v is canon then it won't make sense to how yusei kaito fusion summoned
2-sorry but i was not keeping up with the debate you were having with overlord i was just trying to explain some stuff
 
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@SomebodyData

do you have any proof that ARC-V is canon to the first three series ?

because you know, the main protags are completly missing, people have different ace monsters and the entirity of the fusion dimension is not like gx

anyway, Crystrons still didn't show up, so you have no basis to say that Pheonix could have been summoned by anyone

Yusei uses the power of the Crimson Dragon to enter Clear Mind, so of course Z-one wouldn't be able to replicate it y just imitatig he personality

anyway, the scaling would be like

Crimson Dragon (as it powered Yusei's Over Limit) > Delta Acell = High 4-C

Signer Dragons << Crimson Dragon

Stardust = Neos = Dark Magician

Paradox =~ Antony/Aporia
 
Both

You guys literally used Zexal as part of an argument but can't accept Arc-V?

The reason there is a dimensions for each summoning method is because Zarc split the original dimension (where the majority of the anime series are in) into 5.

BTW, I think I found some upgrades while debating this, but I'll probably just add them to another thread I'm planning to make.

zencha

yeah, admittedly the convo with overlord got complex.

overlord

the issue arises when you factor in the rest of series to your scaling, especially the fact that even with the crimson dragon, yusei was inferior to Antimony and couldn't use even clear mind initially.
 
lul i was the first one to not agree with zexal characters scaling
edit: also zexal doesn't contradict itself each second
 
@SomebodyData

1. Zexal doesn't retcon majur elements of the previusly entalished settings tho. Though tbh, there's not reall anything that reallyyy points to Zexal being canon to the first three series, so we should probably not count it too, ye

2. That doesn't explain why the universes are majourly different [Accademia being the nazis, Kaiba Corps not existing, gx and New Domio city existing at the same time despise the latter happening over 20 years after the latter, the protags not existing, the Astral/Barian worlds not being even mentioned, ETC]

3. cool cool

4. TBF, Yusei only had 1 mark of the Crimson Dragon when he fought Antimoty, so at best he had only access to 1/6th of his power
 
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Zencha

Sorry, debating against both of you has me mistaking what y'all positions are.

Arc-V isn't that contradictory (Probably one of the more better-written series IMO), but to each their own ig.

Overlord
  1. Like I said, it was explained what happened to the setting- there wasn't any retcon unless you want to consider Marvel's current definition of retcon or something.
  2. Splitting the timeline had ramifications for everything that occurred within all the series(s).
  3. He had the full Crimson Dragon alongside Clear Mind when fighting Antimony (AMV). (I also don't agree with AP scaling based on duels)
 
1. This is very much different from Marvel, as we can be certain if events are happeing on Earth-616
2. Mind giving me statements that the universe being split had a retroactive affect to the timeline ? because you know, otherwise it's headcanon
3. Also again, Crystrons never showed up, so you making any statements about their nature has no basis
4. A [Also, come on man, Antony litterally blowed up a star, saying it wouldn't scale to his AP is utter nonsense]
 
  1. I was just pointing out your definition of retcon moreso fits Marvel's than the regular definition. If you want to add to my post, go ahead I guess?
  2. ...That's the plot of Arc-V. Zencha could tell you that if you don't believe me, it had a huge affect on each individual segment of the timeline.
  3. (That's not what I'm saying, I'm saying scaling via winning or losing duels is ridiculous.) Though I guess that doesn't matter if you agree with what I posted about Yusei having the Crimson Dragon already.
 
Overlord775 said:
3. Also again, Crystrons never showed up, so you making any statements about their nature has no basis
Click to expand...
1 & 2 ^^^^^^

3. Actually, now that I look better at it, Yusei only had a 5 piece mark during the Acell summoning (the heart is missing), while all six are present for the Over Limit, also the Over Top Clear state seems to come from the complete mark

(Btw, the scaling would be because of spiritual energy/ener-D)
 
not sure if this helps but majestic stardust is the embodiment of the crimson dragon and should scale to him
not sure who scales to majestic stardust though
 
  1. & 2. There's also Battlewasp - Hama the Conquering Bow that did appear in Arc-V, so these arguments are still at play. It should also be mentioned that both Life Stream Dragon and Tatsunoko exist within the anime, with the potential to Accel Synchro summon by extension.
    3. I mean, BBT only had the five-piece at that point so it doesn't matter.
Zencha
I was going to use that as an argument later (Since if Stardust Dragon is comparable to the Crimson Dragon, it wouldn't make sense for Majestic Star Dragon to exist). Though if you want to talk about it now, that'd be fine.
 
i mean stardust and the sginer dragons would still scale to the earthbounds and the crimson devil regardless
 
When Overlord linked the episode, it was only the still image you guys brought up earlier and then showed the Burning Soul user sealing Crimson Nova. So no, they don't scale to Crimson Devil.

And again, the scaling becomes problematic afterwards as: Crimson Devil > Crimson Dragon >> Stardust > Yusei makes no sense when you consider Red Nova Dragon exists. Red Nova Dragon who is inferior to Shooting Star Dragon <<<< Delta Accel Synchro Summoning.
 
yes they scale because burning soul users have the direct power of the crimson dragon thus they scale to crimson dragon and devil
 
Read my second part of the comment, you can't have Crimson Dragon scales to Stardust & Crimson Dragon scales to Delta Accel Synchro Summoning.
 
shooting star was empowered by the crimson dragon when yusei fought against jack's red nova
 
@SomebodyData
1. Accell Syncro specifically requires a tuner synchro monster and a non-tuner synchro monster, so Hama doesn't qualify as one

A showing of a synchro monster that is also a tuner very much doesn't int that normal people can acell synchro,
3. Yusei havinng 5 or 6 marks doesn't matter for the Stardust scaling tho

Also, about the Majestic Dragon thing, I said multiple times already that the signer dragons don't fully scale, but that they downscale
 
Zencha

Red Nova Dragon was empowered by the Crimson Nova, who you guys say can beat the Crimson Dragon and the Signer Dragons, which would be >>> Shooting Star even with Crimson Dragon.

Overlord

  1. I thought that only the synchro tuner was needed, at least according to Z-One?
  2. That was your argument though, as a counter to the scaling.
  3. You still have to be comparable to get the same tier.
 
SomebodyData said:
Red Nova Dragon was empowered by the Crimson Nova, who you guys say can beat the Crimson Dragon and the Signer Dragons, which would be >>> Shooting Star even with Crimson Dragon.
Click to expand...
forgot to say shooting star was also boosted by a trap that made them equal
 
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