Young Justice MAJOR UPGRADES

[CiscoTheSoto]

Also we should remove the Shields as a key in Superboy profiles and just add it create a keys for him like this:

seasons 1 | Season 2 and 3 | Season 4 (whatever we name his resurrected version)

the reasoning is simple, after season 1 Superboy loses the shields so he'd lose his "with shields" rating and would be just Small Building level in seasons 2 and 3 with his season 4 key being 8-B since he's as strong as superman and can combat Zod

I disagree for a couple of reasons. One, there's never been any explicit proof he's strong as Superman. The two were never shown fighting together as equals. Though they did fight against Zod together, you gotta remember that none of the Kryptonians at that moment had been fully charged with solar energy. The Zods had gotten some yellow sun energy, but Ursa admitted they could've gotten significantly more power. The entire premise was that none of the Kryptonians at that moment were at full power, and Nightwing admitted if they allowed the sun to rise, the planet was doomed. I believe Superboy's keys should stay as they are and separate them with his base and Shield-enhanced keys.

 

[Dalesean027]

I disagree for a couple of reasons. One, there's never been any explicit proof he's strong as Superman. The two were never shown fighting together as equals. Though they did fight against Zod together, you gotta remember that none of the Kryptonians at that moment had been fully charged with solar energy. The Zods had gotten some yellow sun energy, but Ursa admitted they could've gotten significantly more power. The entire premise was that none of the Kryptonians at that moment were at full power, and Nightwing admitted if they allowed the sun to rise, the planet was doomed. I believe Superboy's keys should stay as they are and separate them with his base and Shield-enhanced keys.

While all of this is true there's still one thing that throws a wrench into that and its that the emerald empress still performed a 8-B feat literally right before they fought the league and team and all the Kryptonians were still at least throwing out 9-A casual feats themselves while also being able to harm bioship who took hits from Black Adam who is obviously comparable to Shazam who is 8-B soo like really its still very warranted

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

While all of this is true there's still one thing that throws a wrench into that and its that the emerald empress still performed a 8-B feat literally right before they fought the league and team and all the Kryptonians were still at least throwing out 9-A casual feats themselves while also being able to harm bioship who took hits from Black Adam who is obviously comparable to Shazam who is 8-B soo like really its still very warranted

Well keep in mind Ursa was empowered by the Eye of Ekron. None of the heroes were shown withstanding the eye's attacks. It took the combined efforts of Orion and Superman to deflect the attack. Only Zatanna could barely fend her off with magic.

I'm not disagreeing with the 8-B feats or the Zods scaling to 8-B. I'm just saying that Superboy's still not comparable to Superman since all the Kryptonians there were depowered. So the current key for Superboy is fine as it is. Assuming the characters are going to be upgraded to 8-B, Superboy's profile should probably be something like 8-B in base (weaker than, but somewhat comparable to Superman), At Least 8-B for Shields (due to having full Kryptonian blood, should be equal to Superman).

 

[Dalesean027]

Assuming the characters are going to be upgraded to 8-B, Superboy's profile should probably be something like 8-B in base (weaker than, but somewhat comparable to Superman), At Least 8-B for Shields (due to having full Kryptonian blood, should be equal to Superman).

The regular 9-As are still 9-A they've just got actual feats gor themselves so they don't have to rely on Blue beetle scaling its the superman tiers who are getting 8-B though asura said he may find a comment that makes superman scale to the high 7-A stuff at his best

Well keep in mind Ursa was empowered by the Eye of Ekron. None of the heroes were shown withstanding the eye's attacks. It took the combined efforts of Orion and Superman to deflect the attack. Only Zatanna could barely fend her off with magic.

Fair but still Zatanna should have her shields scale

 

[CiscoTheSoto]

The regular 9-As are still 9-A they've just got actual feats gor themselves so they don't have to rely on Blue beetle scaling its the superman tiers who are getting 8-B though asura said he may find a comment that makes superman scale to the high 7-A stuff at his best

In that case Superboy should remain 9-A, but Superboy with shields should be 8-B. And assuming profiles for the Zods are made, Dru-Zod should scale to 9-A and Ursa should scale to 9-A, 8-B with the Eye of Ekron. Lor-Zod I think should scale to 8-B since he's a full-blooded Kryptonian who'd been given the full power of yellow sun radiation.

Fair but still Zatanna should have her shields scale

That's fine with me.

 

[Dalesean027]

In that case Superboy should remain 9-A, but Superboy with shields should be 8-B.

Yeah that's already how it was going to be anyways

 

[KingTempest]

Shazam’s also stated by one of the producers to be relative to Superman in strength, sand as Captain Atom, take that how you wish

 

[Galvino]

I disagree for a couple of reasons. One, there's never been any explicit proof he's strong as Superman. The two were never shown fighting together as equals. Though they did fight against Zod together, you gotta remember that none of the Kryptonians at that moment had been fully charged with solar energy. The Zods had gotten some yellow sun energy, but Ursa admitted they could've gotten significantly more power. The entire premise was that none of the Kryptonians at that moment were at full power, and Nightwing admitted if they allowed the sun to rise, the planet was doomed. I believe Superboy's keys should stay as they are and separate them with his base and Shield-enhanced keys.

I agree it doesn't seem as definitive to me but to be fair, as I already said, Superman and Superboy both weren't at full power as well. None of the Kryptonians in that whole fight were at full power, except Lor. So it doesn't seem impossible that Superboy could be Superman level if we know he was weakened that whole fight.

Lor-Zod I think should scale to 8-B since he's a full-blooded Kryptonian who'd been given the full power of yellow sun radiation.

You think Lor fully scales even though he's just a teen? Maybe if Superboy with those shield things in season 1 (during his teens) was definitively Superman level then that could support Lor fully scaling.

 

[Dalesean027]

Shazam’s also stated by one of the producers to be relative to Superman in strength, sand as Captain Atom, take that how you wish

Captain Atom literally absorbed a reactors meltdown and explosion a easy like high 8-C or 8-B looking explosion soo like more consistency

 

[KingTempest]

Shazam’s also stated by one of the producers to be relative to Superman in strength, sand as Captain Atom, take that how you wish

Captain Atom literally absorbed a reactors meltdown and explosion a easy like high 8-C or 8-B looking explosion soo like more consistency

Greg responds...​

Captain Atom's energy blasts can be more powerful than Superman's heat-vision.

Superman is stronger.

Their flight speed is about equal.

Superman's agility is greater.

Greg responds...​

1. It's a power that has NEVER made any sense to me. The VOLUME of Superman's lungs is no larger than a human's. I don't care how powerful he is, he just can't take in enough air to make his breath worthwhile. And the notion that he can super-freeze that air makes even less sense to me.
2. He's strong. He's in the ballpark of Superman, but neither are probably as strong on YJ as they've grown to become in the comics.
3. Brain never got the chance to test that theory.

 

[ByAsura]

I've read all the ones I can find (it's as simple as just searching words like 'stronger' or 'powerful' into here).

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

The only claim I've seen contradict this is that Superboy is > Aquaman. But that's contradicted by the actual show, IIRC, and Greg himself saying that Superboy is way less powerful than Superman.

He doesn't really seem to be much of a power scaling guy altogether, though.

 

[Galvino]

It's possible his thoughts or notes on some stuff change over the years, so maybe the more recent posts should take priority if they contradict the old posts.

 

[ByAsura]

That's probably a good idea but I reject it because that means slightly, slightly more effort

 

[Imaginym]

Of course, as I'm sure you all know, we should try to avoid poisoning the well by asking powerscaling questions of Greg.

So I'd recommend avoiding asking him such questions ourselves.

 

[Dalesean027]

Of course, as I'm sure you all know, we should try to avoid poisoning the well by asking powerscaling questions of Greg.

So I'd recommend avoiding asking him such questions ourselves.

Yeah all of these are like old questions on the site so they should be fair game

 

[Dalesean027]

I've read all the ones I can find (it's as simple as just searching words like 'stronger' or 'powerful' into here).

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

The only claim I've seen contradict this is that Superboy is > Aquaman. But that's contradicted by the actual show, IIRC, and Greg himself saying that Superboy is way less powerful than Superman.

He doesn't really seem to be much of a power scaling guy altogether, though.

Damn yeah so this would put superman > flash and Red Tornado completely having him be high 7-A

 

[Tyranno223]

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

I believe it's mentioned that Shazam is faster than Superman in one of his interviews.

Edit: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=18817

 

[ByAsura]

Damn yeah so this would put superman > flash and Red Tornado completely having him be high 7-A

This is definitely referring to physical strength more than tornado powers (unless they're comparable anyway).

He continuously separates this kind of stuff, and makes sure to stress that.

 

[Dalesean027]

This is definitely referring to physical strength more than tornado powers (unless they're comparable anyway).

He continuously separates this kind of stuff.

Well even then tornado aside physicals would still put him above Flashes Relativistic KE and his and Impulses MFD feat

 

[Dalesean027]

Meh actually yeah still possibly high 7-A would still probably work best for this

 

[ByAsura]

These statements and season 2 were made around the same time, so it should be fine without a possibly.

The Supes stuff also comes from around the same time or after.

 

[KingTempest]

I've read all the ones I can find (it's as simple as just searching words like 'stronger' or 'powerful' into here).

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

The only claim I've seen contradict this is that Superboy is > Aquaman. But that's contradicted by the actual show, IIRC, and Greg himself saying that Superboy is way less powerful than Superman.

He doesn't really seem to be much of a power scaling guy altogether, though.

Typed in stronger and strongest, only focused on the heroes and their comparisons, but there's more

• As of Season 2, Superboy is physically the strongest on the team, also said to be the most powerful, followed up by Wonder Girl and then Lagoon Boy
  • They say a bunch that Superboy > Wonder Girl
  • Superboy > Kaldur.
  • Superboy is stronger than Sergeant Marvel, Troia, and Wonder Girl, but the three girls listed are relative in strength
    • Wonder Girl ~ Troia
• Superman's the strongest leaguer, said again, followed by Icon, ShazamMarvel, and Wonder Woman. Aquaman and a telekinetically enhanced Martian Manhunter and a Quantum-energized Captain Atom are close, and the lanterns at peak and Fate are stronger than Superman.
• Implied that Aquaman > Aqualad, but not by a large margin.
• Captain Atom is potentially stronger than Aquaman.
• Superman is stronger than Superboy by a lot.
• In Season One, ShazamMarvel and Supes were roughly equal.
• Aquaman is stronger than Martial Manhunter, not including Telekinesis.

Typed in fastest, faster, and others

• Barry can approach lightspeed, Wally can approach mach 1
• Superman is slower than Wally and it's laughable that he'd approach lightspeed.
• Season One Shazam > Superman > Season Two Shazam in speed
  • Faster than Superman

 

[ByAsura]

There's also some stuff about non-TK amped Martians being weaker than average Atlanteans (which Kaldur isn't), but idk if that'd mean anything substantial.

 

[KingTempest]

There's also some stuff about non-TK amped Martians being weaker than average Atlanteans (which Kaldur isn't), but idk if that'd mean anything substantial.

Search Ask Greg : Gargoyles : Station Eight

www.s8.org

Wasn't solid

 

[ByAsura]

That seems to refer to raw strength, but it is shaky.

Anyway, average Atlanteans can swim at depths of at least 8,486 metres.

That's like almost 1/5th baseline Wall level.

And I do recall some 'normal' humans harming fodder Atlanteans (or maybe they were Amazons, who don't all have super strength).

Edit: Nah. Manta soldiers.

 

[KingTempest]

Dalesean can this be calced?


Scales to Lagoon Boy and Aquaman

 

[Dalesean027]

Dalesean can this be calced?


Scales to Lagoon Boy and Aquaman

Tier 8-B to 8-A and maybe yeah if we've got something to scale the buildings off of in other scenes

 

[ByAsura]

There's also Captain Marvel moving this plant.

At some point, I'm pretty sure he'd have moved it at escape velocity.

 

[Dalesean027]

There's also Captain Marvel moving this plant.

At some point, I'm pretty sure he'd have moved it at escape velocity.

MHS+ Captain Marvel!? With Class M LS

 

[ByAsura]

I don't think that scene is representative of how fast it actually happened given the cut.

But, Young Justice does have timers in most episodes. So maybe we might be able to use that.

 

[KingTempest]

oh yeah i saw some heavy antistatements in the blog, like slower than bullet (off rip) and slower than sound superman

 

[Dalesean027]

oh yeah i saw some heavy antistatements in the blog, like slower than bullet (off rip) and slower than sound superman

Well that's a load of BS heck even if we say he can only fly as fast as Ms. Martian she had kept pace with military drones (i had the speed of it wrong earlier) that can travel at speeds of more than 4,800 miles per hour soooo yeah, I wouldn't take all of these statements as being the end all be all since there's clear feats and scaling that contradict some of this stuff

 

[ByAsura]

Captain Marvel threw it after 19:49 EDT (7:49 PM).

The next scene is 18:52 CDT, which is 7:52 pm.

So it took at most 3 minutes.

Even the final timer in the episode is 7:57 pm. So it definitely didn't take more than 8 minutes.

Maybe it's worth calculating the distance. If he travelled 2,000 km in 3 minutes, the calc would already get escape velocity.

 

[Dalesean027]

100km/180s = 555.555556 (Supersonic)

Consistency, that's for the lowest edge of space tho


160km/180s = 888.888889m/s (Supersonic+)

Low orbit area of satellites in space

 

[ByAsura]

There's also some feats for Warworld that we can apply to characters.

Warworld was vaporizing portions of an armada with its energy blasts, which Rocket tanked to protect Fate.

Edit: I was misremembering something. She doesn't scale to anyone.

Its missiles could vaporize the Reach Fleet, which should be >> steel and DU armour. Shazam tanked these during Season 2 when he was was at 1/3rd power.

Despero beat up 1/3 Shazam, fyi.

 

[Dalesean027]

There's also some feats for Warworld that we can apply to characters.

Warworld was vaporizing portions of an armada with its energy blasts, which Rocket tanked to protect Fate.

Edit: I was misremembering something. She doesn't scale to anyone.

Its missiles could vaporize the Reach Fleet, which should be >> steel and DU armour. Shazam tanked these during Season 2 when he was was at 1/3rd power.

Oh then all of these guys would be like tier 7 then easily

 

[ByAsura]

Maybe we could scale Shazam to the lasers, since he consistently tanked the cannons' explosions (while they were firing) at point-blank range.

But Atom seemed to be dodging them.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't mean to keep on piling calcs, but since we're using the logic that Superman is slower, maybe we could also calculate Blue Beetle's survival claim from whatever range that was at.

There's also Blue Beetle dusting the platform he was on.

 

[KingTempest]

Captain Marvel at least Mach 1 in season 1

 

[KingTempest]

I don't mean to keep on piling calcs

Honestly we can just list feats and someone can calc it if they see it or when they're free

Like this, speed and AP (freezing and expanding ice fast enough to block an explosion, plus blocking said explosion). Dale or another CGM or even I could calc it when free