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Young Justice MAJOR UPGRADES

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Dalesean027 said:
Also we should remove the Shields as a key in Superboy profiles and just add it create a keys for him like this:

seasons 1 | Season 2 and 3 | Season 4 (whatever we name his resurrected version)

the reasoning is simple, after season 1 Superboy loses the shields so he'd lose his "with shields" rating and would be just Small Building level in seasons 2 and 3 with his season 4 key being 8-B since he's as strong as superman and can combat Zod
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I disagree for a couple of reasons. One, there's never been any explicit proof he's strong as Superman. The two were never shown fighting together as equals. Though they did fight against Zod together, you gotta remember that none of the Kryptonians at that moment had been fully charged with solar energy. The Zods had gotten some yellow sun energy, but Ursa admitted they could've gotten significantly more power. The entire premise was that none of the Kryptonians at that moment were at full power, and Nightwing admitted if they allowed the sun to rise, the planet was doomed. I believe Superboy's keys should stay as they are and separate them with his base and Shield-enhanced keys.
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
I disagree for a couple of reasons. One, there's never been any explicit proof he's strong as Superman. The two were never shown fighting together as equals. Though they did fight against Zod together, you gotta remember that none of the Kryptonians at that moment had been fully charged with solar energy. The Zods had gotten some yellow sun energy, but Ursa admitted they could've gotten significantly more power. The entire premise was that none of the Kryptonians at that moment were at full power, and Nightwing admitted if they allowed the sun to rise, the planet was doomed. I believe Superboy's keys should stay as they are and separate them with his base and Shield-enhanced keys.
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While all of this is true there's still one thing that throws a wrench into that and its that the emerald empress still performed a 8-B feat literally right before they fought the league and team and all the Kryptonians were still at least throwing out 9-A casual feats themselves while also being able to harm bioship who took hits from Black Adam who is obviously comparable to Shazam who is 8-B soo like really its still very warranted
 
Dalesean027 said:
While all of this is true there's still one thing that throws a wrench into that and its that the emerald empress still performed a 8-B feat literally right before they fought the league and team and all the Kryptonians were still at least throwing out 9-A casual feats themselves while also being able to harm bioship who took hits from Black Adam who is obviously comparable to Shazam who is 8-B soo like really its still very warranted
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Well keep in mind Ursa was empowered by the Eye of Ekron. None of the heroes were shown withstanding the eye's attacks. It took the combined efforts of Orion and Superman to deflect the attack. Only Zatanna could barely fend her off with magic.

I'm not disagreeing with the 8-B feats or the Zods scaling to 8-B. I'm just saying that Superboy's still not comparable to Superman since all the Kryptonians there were depowered. So the current key for Superboy is fine as it is. Assuming the characters are going to be upgraded to 8-B, Superboy's profile should probably be something like 8-B in base (weaker than, but somewhat comparable to Superman), At Least 8-B for Shields (due to having full Kryptonian blood, should be equal to Superman).
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
Assuming the characters are going to be upgraded to 8-B, Superboy's profile should probably be something like 8-B in base (weaker than, but somewhat comparable to Superman), At Least 8-B for Shields (due to having full Kryptonian blood, should be equal to Superman).
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The regular 9-As are still 9-A they've just got actual feats gor themselves so they don't have to rely on Blue beetle scaling its the superman tiers who are getting 8-B though asura said he may find a comment that makes superman scale to the high 7-A stuff at his best


CiscoTheSoto said:
Well keep in mind Ursa was empowered by the Eye of Ekron. None of the heroes were shown withstanding the eye's attacks. It took the combined efforts of Orion and Superman to deflect the attack. Only Zatanna could barely fend her off with magic.
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Fair but still Zatanna should have her shields scale
 
Dalesean027 said:
The regular 9-As are still 9-A they've just got actual feats gor themselves so they don't have to rely on Blue beetle scaling its the superman tiers who are getting 8-B though asura said he may find a comment that makes superman scale to the high 7-A stuff at his best
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In that case Superboy should remain 9-A, but Superboy with shields should be 8-B. And assuming profiles for the Zods are made, Dru-Zod should scale to 9-A and Ursa should scale to 9-A, 8-B with the Eye of Ekron. Lor-Zod I think should scale to 8-B since he's a full-blooded Kryptonian who'd been given the full power of yellow sun radiation.
Dalesean027 said:
Fair but still Zatanna should have her shields scale
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That's fine with me.
 
Shazam’s also stated by one of the producers to be relative to Superman in strength, sand as Captain Atom, take that how you wish
 
CiscoTheSoto said:
I disagree for a couple of reasons. One, there's never been any explicit proof he's strong as Superman. The two were never shown fighting together as equals. Though they did fight against Zod together, you gotta remember that none of the Kryptonians at that moment had been fully charged with solar energy. The Zods had gotten some yellow sun energy, but Ursa admitted they could've gotten significantly more power. The entire premise was that none of the Kryptonians at that moment were at full power, and Nightwing admitted if they allowed the sun to rise, the planet was doomed. I believe Superboy's keys should stay as they are and separate them with his base and Shield-enhanced keys.
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I agree it doesn't seem as definitive to me but to be fair, as I already said, Superman and Superboy both weren't at full power as well. None of the Kryptonians in that whole fight were at full power, except Lor. So it doesn't seem impossible that Superboy could be Superman level if we know he was weakened that whole fight.
CiscoTheSoto said:
Lor-Zod I think should scale to 8-B since he's a full-blooded Kryptonian who'd been given the full power of yellow sun radiation.
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You think Lor fully scales even though he's just a teen? Maybe if Superboy with those shield things in season 1 (during his teens) was definitively Superman level then that could support Lor fully scaling.
 
KingTempest said:
Shazam’s also stated by one of the producers to be relative to Superman in strength, sand as Captain Atom, take that how you wish
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Dalesean027 said:
Captain Atom literally absorbed a reactors meltdown and explosion a easy like high 8-C or 8-B looking explosion soo like more consistency
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Greg responds...​

Captain Atom's energy blasts can be more powerful than Superman's heat-vision.

Superman is stronger.

Their flight speed is about equal.

Superman's agility is greater.
Click to expand...

Greg responds...​

1. It's a power that has NEVER made any sense to me. The VOLUME of Superman's lungs is no larger than a human's. I don't care how powerful he is, he just can't take in enough air to make his breath worthwhile. And the notion that he can super-freeze that air makes even less sense to me.
2. He's strong. He's in the ballpark of Superman, but neither are probably as strong on YJ as they've grown to become in the comics.
3. Brain never got the chance to test that theory.
Click to expand...
 
I've read all the ones I can find (it's as simple as just searching words like 'stronger' or 'powerful' into here).

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

The only claim I've seen contradict this is that Superboy is > Aquaman. But that's contradicted by the actual show, IIRC, and Greg himself saying that Superboy is way less powerful than Superman.

He doesn't really seem to be much of a power scaling guy altogether, though.
 
It's possible his thoughts or notes on some stuff change over the years, so maybe the more recent posts should take priority if they contradict the old posts.
 
That's probably a good idea but I reject it because that means slightly, slightly more effort
 
Of course, as I'm sure you all know, we should try to avoid poisoning the well by asking powerscaling questions of Greg.

So I'd recommend avoiding asking him such questions ourselves.
 
Imaginym said:
Of course, as I'm sure you all know, we should try to avoid poisoning the well by asking powerscaling questions of Greg.

So I'd recommend avoiding asking him such questions ourselves.
Click to expand...
Yeah all of these are like old questions on the site so they should be fair game
 
ByAsura said:
I've read all the ones I can find (it's as simple as just searching words like 'stronger' or 'powerful' into here).

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

The only claim I've seen contradict this is that Superboy is > Aquaman. But that's contradicted by the actual show, IIRC, and Greg himself saying that Superboy is way less powerful than Superman.

He doesn't really seem to be much of a power scaling guy altogether, though.
Click to expand...
Damn yeah so this would put superman > flash and Red Tornado completely having him be high 7-A
 
ByAsura said:
He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.
Click to expand...
I believe it's mentioned that Shazam is faster than Superman in one of his interviews.

Edit: https://www.s8.org/gargoyles/askgreg/search.php?qid=18817
 
Dalesean027 said:
Damn yeah so this would put superman > flash and Red Tornado completely having him be high 7-A
Click to expand...
This is definitely referring to physical strength more than tornado powers (unless they're comparable anyway).

He continuously separates this kind of stuff, and makes sure to stress that.
 
ByAsura said:
This is definitely referring to physical strength more than tornado powers (unless they're comparable anyway).

He continuously separates this kind of stuff.
Click to expand...
Well even then tornado aside physicals would still put him above Flashes Relativistic KE and his and Impulses MFD feat
 
Meh actually yeah still possibly high 7-A would still probably work best for this
 
These statements and season 2 were made around the same time, so it should be fine without a possibly.

The Supes stuff also comes from around the same time or after.
 
ByAsura said:
I've read all the ones I can find (it's as simple as just searching words like 'stronger' or 'powerful' into here).

He's adamant in numerous interviews that Superman is top dog (even saying that he's basically the most invulnerable), Shazam and Mongul are in the same league but not exactly as strong (with Shazam being equal only in Season 1), TK Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman, Captain Adam, Icon, Aquaman, etc come a close second, and Hawk Man, Red Tornado and normal Martian Manhunter are near the same league.

The only claim I've seen contradict this is that Superboy is > Aquaman. But that's contradicted by the actual show, IIRC, and Greg himself saying that Superboy is way less powerful than Superman.

He doesn't really seem to be much of a power scaling guy altogether, though.
Click to expand...
Typed in stronger and strongest, only focused on the heroes and their comparisons, but there's more
Typed in fastest, faster, and others
 
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There's also some stuff about non-TK amped Martians being weaker than average Atlanteans (which Kaldur isn't), but idk if that'd mean anything substantial.
 
That seems to refer to raw strength, but it is shaky.

Anyway, average Atlanteans can swim at depths of at least 8,486 metres.

That's like almost 1/5th baseline Wall level.

And I do recall some 'normal' humans harming fodder Atlanteans (or maybe they were Amazons, who don't all have super strength).

Edit: Nah. Manta soldiers.
 
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I don't think that scene is representative of how fast it actually happened given the cut.

But, Young Justice does have timers in most episodes. So maybe we might be able to use that.
 
oh yeah i saw some heavy antistatements in the blog, like slower than bullet (off rip) and slower than sound superman
 
KingTempest said:
oh yeah i saw some heavy antistatements in the blog, like slower than bullet (off rip) and slower than sound superman
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Well that's a load of BS heck even if we say he can only fly as fast as Ms. Martian she had kept pace with military drones (i had the speed of it wrong earlier) that can travel at speeds of more than 4,800 miles per hour soooo yeah, I wouldn't take all of these statements as being the end all be all since there's clear feats and scaling that contradict some of this stuff
 
Captain Marvel threw it after 19:49 EDT (7:49 PM).

The next scene is 18:52 CDT, which is 7:52 pm.

So it took at most 3 minutes.

Even the final timer in the episode is 7:57 pm. So it definitely didn't take more than 8 minutes.

Maybe it's worth calculating the distance. If he travelled 2,000 km in 3 minutes, the calc would already get escape velocity.
 
100km/180s = 555.555556 (Supersonic)

Consistency, that's for the lowest edge of space tho


160km/180s = 888.888889m/s (Supersonic+)

Low orbit area of satellites in space
 
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Maybe we could scale Shazam to the lasers, since he consistently tanked the cannons' explosions (while they were firing) at point-blank range.

But Atom seemed to be dodging them.
 
ByAsura said:
I don't mean to keep on piling calcs
Click to expand...
Honestly we can just list feats and someone can calc it if they see it or when they're free

Like this, speed and AP (freezing and expanding ice fast enough to block an explosion, plus blocking said explosion). Dale or another CGM or even I could calc it when free
 
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