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Yoshikage Kira vs Cynthia

StrymULTRA

StrymULTRA

12,430
4,544
 
>Cynthia can see stands

Not how that works.
 
No? You cant restrict any powers that dont effect tiering.
 
Cynthia has multiple pokemon the moment one gets blown up she'll probably just one shot him with her pokemon from a distance
 
There's an issue with that. She has to actually call out her Pokemon first. This aint Kira vs Garchomp, it's Kira Vs. Cynthia. The trainer, while she has Pokemon, she has to call them out first.

Meaning there's a very good chance Kira lights her up before Cynthia can call out anything given, grabbing a pokeball and letting a pokemon out is a lot more complex then KQ flying over to Cynthia and dusting. (Hell KQ may be able to catch the balls midair).

But that begs the question, would Kira do that right away? Well maybe? Depends on the mood, he could monolouge or incap right away.

But if he doesnt and Cynthia gets a Pokemon out first? Yeah that Pokemon can instant kill but so can KQ. Cynthia in character would probably just throw out Garchomp and that's it and command Garchomp to incap, but the issue with that is, she doesnt know about his Stand, if she tells Garchomp to incap Kira as if he's just a normal man that could easily backfire with the invisible KQ detonating Garchomp and then dusting Cynthia before she can release any other Pokemon. And then looking at SBA starting distance, it's hard to say, you'd assume it's using the range of Cynthia to start with, not her Pokemon, so the starting distance would only be a few meters (however far she can toss a Pokeball), which means Kira and her arent that far apart and if Kira really wanted to, he could light her up before she got a chance to do much of anything with the invisible KQ. Although if Cynthia decides to send out more than one Pokemon initially that could snowball into him gettig overwhelmed, especially if that Pokemon attacks a bit out of KQ's effective range like you said.


Honestly, I see Cynthia's nature backfiring, she'd send out Garchomp to incap what she assumes to be a normal man as we have seen her attack criminals before, usually only has Garchomp restrain the criminals and not knowing about the flying punch cat that can dust things would screw her. Garchomp would be instantly dusted because it's a giant monster land shark and Kira aint ******* with that and due to Cynthia only sending out one mon to begin with, gets taken out by KQ before she can retaliate with the rest of the team as Kira would know absolutely not have Cynthia counter with another monster. Or depending on his mood he may just light her up with KQ right away if he feels like he needs to to protect his identity or if he's just feeling horny, I'm assuming this would be a Shigechi situation though to at least give Cynthia a chance to throw out her ace mon.
 
Actually since Kira does everything he can to keep his identity secret he'll ikely try to run away at first which would put distance between the 2 of them. When fighting shigechi he kept his stand secret even when he saw harvest and didn't reveal himself until the cat was out of the bag. Anyways that depends how kira is feeling and the scenario as a whole but if he does try to run at first Cynthia might be sble to pull out another pokemon before Kira reaches her.
 
Kira takes Cynthia's hand FRA.

You should have him fight a Pokemon / trainer that stands a chance vs Kira, except for the top tier ones that rape him in an attosecond
 
NekoMorgana647 said:
Kira takes Cynthia's hand FRA.
You should have him fight a Pokemon / trainer that stands a chance vs Kira, except for the top tier ones that rape him in an attosecond
Click to expand...
I don't think is a stomp, Cynthia's mons can still one shot Kira
 
Dusty Raider said:
Actually since Kira does everything he can to keep his identity secret he'll ikely try to run away at first which would put distance between the 2 of them. When fighting shigechi he kept his stand secret even when he saw harvest and didn't reveal himself until the cat was out of the bag. Anyways that depends how kira is feeling and the scenario as a whole but if he does try to run at first Cynthia might be sble to pull out another pokemon before Kira reaches her.
Click to expand...
What? He wouldnt run, he does the opposite, he tries to murder anyone who knows about him, of course not to a Diavolo extent but given SBA says they both know theyre in a fight but are within character, he'd want to kill Cynthia to protect himself and Cynthia would want to incap the man like she does to grunts, both are already aware of each other thus running isnt an option, he only does that when he hasnt been seen yet. I dont see Kira running, especially against what is essentially a supermodel within Pokemon and a chick, if he knows he's in a fight, as both do per SBA, the most Kira would likely do is ask Cynthia's name (which Cynthia would obviously tell him given she aint a asshole), then Kira would be like cool then dust her for her hand. And while Cynthia would summon Garchomp first chance she gets, that's probaby all she would do.

And in the off chance Kira does run, he'd run so far away that he'd essentially self BFR, if it wasnt for the fact he'd also have SHA hunt Cynthia down, making it so he, while gone, is technically still in the fight, and Cynthia has no counter to SHA (well, maybe Spiritomb but that wont help if she doesnt know it's coming).
 
I don't think is a stomp, Cynthia's mons can still one shot Kira

Thats assuming they see the stand, but as far as IK none of the Pokemon can sense life or psychological energy or see it. So Kira becomes unpredictable and dusts her Pokemon and Cynthia herself.
 
Obviously Kira would die from those Pokemon, but since his stand can defend him its easier said than done killing him. Kira is somewhat of a glass cannon to people equal to his AP / hax.
 
Has Cynthia ever met Sabrina? Outside of Masters? There's a good chance that Cynthia may assume Kira is a psychic, and if not be shocked at what just happened for a few seconds (which is a bit to long to be shcked for here).
 
NekoMorgana647 said:
Thats assuming they see the stand, but as far as IK none of the Pokemon can sense life or psychological energy or see it. So Kira becomes unpredictable and dusts her Pokemon and Cynthia herself.
Click to expand...
They still can sense them as they can fight ghost pokemon that are like stands in physiology iirc
 
Going by what I know about Pokemon, which is quite a bit, everytime a ghost Pokemon doesnt want to be seen or touched, it isnt seen or touched. Ghost Pokemon have like two different states of being, an invisible, intangible state and one that can be seen and touched (although sometimes it's still intangible if it chooses). Going off the numerous times that's shown in the anime, with Gengar mostly. And I've never seen a ghost pokemon get harmed or even seen by someone while in their former state. Only in the latter, in fact I've seen Ghost Pokemon abuse their intangibility to phase through attacks. At best I can only see Spiritomb or Lucario being able to sense and attack KQ, but neither are what Cynthia tends to go with as a lead.
 
No because SBA isnt 4km. Cynthia aint her Pokemon. The starting distance is far less than you think. And random encounter, she knows Kira is an opponent, that's it as per SBA, she doesnt know he's a threat nor anything he can do, and it goes both ways. Cynthia in character against a perceived opponent merely tries to casually incap. While Kira kills. Cynthia does indeed have huge range, after she calls out a Pokemon, prior to that it's however far she can throw a pokeball, which is the SBA and she, as a trainer, doesnt start with the pokemon called out, but unlike Kira, a thought is a lot quicker summoning condition.
 
Don't trainers tend to stay a bit behind their Pokemon while battling? If she does see her staring Pokemon get killed, wouldn't she have enough time to throw out Spiritomb or a more projectile focused Pokemon?
 
Yes, but also no. They tend to stay behind them in sanctioned tournament fights and matches. In a random encounter, with that close of a distance? I mean she'd try but nothing is stpping KQ from flying over to her and lighting her up. Or even catching the pokeballs mid flight. KQ's and Cynthia's range is quite small, there aint much of a gap (Also while youre right, as of late pokemon trainers have been standing in front of their pokemo, with shit like dynamax or in random situations, much like this, like in masters.)

Cynthia would call out Garchomp, tell Garchomp to knock that man out, Garchomp would then go in front of Cynthia soyeah, she would be behind the pokemon in this match but that may not last long. KQ would obviously already be out given it comes out instantly with a thought, in which case KQ can fly over to Cynthia if it's in range and dust catch the pokeball after it's thrown and dust it and counter befre Cynthia can retaliate given she'd probably be wondering what just happened and probably wouldnt instantly assume the average looking man somehow vaporized her pokemon or pokeball. Or, if Cynthia is super in character, she may try to talk him down a bit first, which would give Kira more than enough time have KQ float over to Cynthia, engage in a quick conversation with her to get her name, then light her up, if Garchomp is already out and standing near her, in order to ilicit intimidation onto Kira, he'd probably opt to light Chomp up instead after the conversation then quickly light Cynthia up.

The fact Cynthia cant see KQ is a huge boon to Kira, which is a bit unfortunate in that you cant restrict non tier effecting abilities but meh, it is what it is. Also Cynthia being a bit of a hero and kind opposed to Kira's urge to erase all that know of his identity and the fact he's trigger happy if pushed to it works against her.
 
Also she'd have to know projectile based Pokemon would be the best option, Cynthia wold have zero idea what just happened and may not even instantly connect it to Kira, I mean she would but there'd definitely be a second or two of wtf just happened. Even then she wouldnt know what he did given Cynthia cant see KQ, which is why I brought up Sabrina, she may assume he's a psychic, probably guess that he teleported her pokemon or pokeball somehwere given psychics in pokemon have done that on screen to others. Worse case scenario, she sends out Spiritomb to counter, but that's if Kira gives her the chance which I doubt he would as he'd know what Pokeballs do after seeing Garchomp get released and the fact she sent out a giant ******* land shark, that shit is ******* spooky.
 
It's the range of whoever has the highest range of the fighters. Cynthia's range is listed as melee range (before Pokemon come out), but maybe I'm wrong in assuming this, but technically speaking her range should be however far she can throw a pokeball. As while she may not be her Pokemon, the pokeballs themselves are all on her.

So I'm assuming that's the SBA, as that's bit more than KQ's range (of 2 meters), before SHA comes out anyway.
 
Unless you're asking what SBA means? Standard Battle Assumptions. There's a page for it.
 
SBA states Starting distance: The characters start as far away from each other as the highest range of the fighters is, but a maximum of 4 kilometers. For example, if one character has a range of 10 meter and the other has a range of 20 meter they start 20 meter apart. However if the range of one character is 10 meter and the range of the other is 5 kilometer, they start only 4 kilometer apart. If extreme advantages are generated via this distance to one side, a balanced alternative should be discussed in the thread.

meaning the starting distance would be at least 50 meters (assuming we are not counting the pokemons) since thats how far sheer heart attack goes.
 
Stand Users ranges always use the base Stand for the SBA going off of literally every other thread I've ever seen. It makes a bit of sense to use SHA but every thread ive seen with Kira always assumes the SBA for him is Killer Queen's summoning range of 2 or so meters. Actually that begs the question with most Stand users, what do we treat the SBA for a few of em? Some Stands have attacks that go quite far, like Emerald Splash, but we never treat the SBA as the Stand's attacks but rather how far the Stand itself can go from the user, that's actually something that should be figured out.

Although, SHA's range is much more than 50 meters, that's Echoes range, SHA doesnt have one that we know of, at the very least it's a chunk of Morioh given Kira was at the Cafe while SHA was in central Morioh.
 
idk, as said, she's probably gonna get a chance to call out Garchomp given theyre both in character. Now whether or not she's gonna capitilze on that or get another chance after the first buff as **** monster, I doubt it.

If she was bloodlusted I could see her winning, or at least forcing an inconclusive given a bloodlusted Kira would combo KQ and SHA at the same time, which would take her out with him worst case scenario. But it aint, theyre in character.
 
Is it? I mean she has a wincondition, and that's have any one of her Pokemon land a hit on him. It's just that it isnt him she should be looking to beat. While both are in character, Kira would be faster on the kill as he's literally a mass murderer that kills anyone who finds out he's a killer, and he's also super into killing young women, which Cynthia is. (Cant be any older than Steven, who's 25).
 
SBA?

Cynthia sends out Spiritomb before Garchomp, and Kira's pitiful range isn't reaching her in time. And Spiritomb stomps. Kira would need to blow up 108 souls at once to kill, and Spiritomb doesn't hit physically. Trying to block anything is death, be it Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball.
 
The real cal howard said:
SBA?

Cynthia sends out Spiritomb before Garchomp, and Kira's pitiful range isn't reaching her in time. And Spiritomb stomps. Kira would need to blow up 108 souls at once to kill, and Spiritomb doesn't hit physically. Trying to block anything is death, be it Dark Pulse or Shadow Ball.
Click to expand...
Kira's range isnt shit, he can just drop SHA or throw a Killer Queen'd coin. How would making Kira flinch or reducing his strength kill him instantly? Unless you are talking about Kira himself. Killer Queen can prolly negate those attacks unless that Pokemon can hurt life / mind / soul energy.
 
They all can hit soul energy. Kira doesn't have coins. He used one of Shigechi's. Meanwhile, Lucario and Spiritomb can both see the Stands. Former due to aura, latter due to ghosts being able to see other ghosts without means of stuff like Silph Scopes. They destroy SHA, Kira has no hand. They destroy KQ, Kira is dead. Heck, Garchomp can just bust out an EQ and win, or Togekiss can fire homing balls of doom in Aura Sphere.
 
K nvm Cynthia FRA, since they can get past the stand killing Kira wont be hard... An ambulance killed him which shows human weakness
 
Except Cynthia doesnt send out Spiritomb before Garchomp. It's always Garchomp in the anime, manga, so on and so forth. She only ever really leads with spiritomb in champion battles but that's outright contradicted in every single other form of media, which last I checked, we use. In a random encounter? It's gonna be Garchomp, because it always is.

You're also ignoring that they start off close to each other, unless you're arguing Cynthia starts out with her Pokemon, which she doesnt because that isnt how summoners work, or the fact her Pokemon, while she uses them, arent her and thus arent apart of the SBA range. Otherwise you may as well argue Cynthia has infinite range with her Pokemon because she can tell them to go however far she needs to.

And as for hitting soul energy.

everytime a ghost Pokemon doesnt want to be seen or touched, it isnt seen or touched. Ghost Pokemon have like two different states of being, an invisible, intangible state and one that can be seen and touched (although sometimes it's still intangible if it chooses). Going off the numerous times that's shown in the anime, with Gengar mostly. And I've never seen a ghost pokemon get harmed or even seen by someone while in their former state. Only in the latter, in fact I've seen Ghost Pokemon abuse their intangibility to phase through attacks.

If you want I can go compile a bunch of instances and make a CRT for it, if we use anime and manga for Pokemon we gotta consider the fact that, the anime (especially) and manga tend to have ghost pokemon having two states of being.

You're also ignoring it's in character, Cynthia doesnt kill, SBA says she's willing to kill, as are all characters but that's an absolute last resort, she aint gonna try to kill what she assumes to be an average man. Hell she may not even take him seriously.

Not to mention Kira doesnt have to blow up 108 souls to kill Spiritomb, Spiritomb is made up of 108 souls, but that's the thing, it's made up of, as in all those souls form together to make one being. As such no, Kira doesnt have to blow up every single individiual soul as all those sols came together to form one being, they're one now. Actually, qouting the Pokedex, this pokemon was formed by 108 spirits. Formed, as in 108 combined to make one. Given they're now what constitues as one object, Kira's one object at a time rule for #1 is a non-issue.

idk Cal but you're being kinda dishonest, you're ignoring the fact Cynthia doesnt kill, the fact she'd only actually send out one pokemon initially, the fact that in every single media other than sanctioned tournament battles she has always lead with Garchomp (and tbh im pretty sure she's lead with Garchomp in one anyway elsewhere) in every single instance I can think of, whether that be in the multitude of anime episodes she's in or the multiple manga, that Kira and Cynthia really arent that far apart and as such Kira having bad range really aint much of a issue, the whole Cynthia has to actually call out the pokemon first which isnt exactly the fastest of things to do and because you wanna debate that, the fact that Ghost Pokemon, from what I can tell given all the episodes and manga ive read, have never been hit when in their noncorporal state.
 
Okay a few things.

It's already accepted that every Pokémon and their mother can touch ghosts unless it's with normal or fighting moves. Don't like it, change it. But otherwise it's ok every profile. The ghosts phase through physical moves, not the special moves.

Two, this is game Cynthia. This isn't manga Cynthia. This isn't anime Cynthia. This is game Cynthia. And I'm the games, we never see her use any Pokémon other than Spiritomb first.

You're getting SBA completely wrong. Willing to kill means won't hesitate unless their morals were on lock. She wouldn't even be put off by him being unassuming, given she faced down a 27 year old dude who wanted to destroy the universe.

Thirdly, distance. What? They're put at the maximum range apart as one of the fighters. Kira has pitiful range compared to Cynthia's tens of kilometers. They will be far apart.
 
Yeah, and I just said I would change it? If it's a CRT you want I'm willing to go compile a bunch of examples and make a case, shouldnt be hard given there's plenty of examples across media.

Haven't I seen you, numerous times before use the anime and manga as evidence for Pokemon and treat characters the same across all forms of media? No offense, but you're being a hypocrite. And anyway, Masters' exists, in which she uses Garchomp, and the most recent version of Cynthia in a game that battles, that being the USUM and BW2, actually always leads with Garchomp, in the PWT Cynthia is scripted to always 100% lead with Garchomp and in USUM she leads with Milotic, SBA says we use the most recent versions of the character if not specified. The most recent version of Cynthia uses Garchomp as a lead (PWT and Masters) or Milotic (USUM) opposed to Spiritomb in her earlier years, so wouldnt even matter, Spiritomb as a lead is off the table anyway.

I'm getting SBA completely wrong? Ignoring the fact SBA literally states the characters will employ their usual tactics, I wouldnt even be able to count all the times I've seen it be said that a character that normally doesnt kill will opt to incap opposed to straight up murdering in a match, see the multitude of matches where a hero type character is said to try and incap opposed to murdering their foe. Cynthia will kill if needed, but that isnt her go to, and you know it. She'd try to restrain and incap long before she attempts to murder an unassuming man. If pushed she'd kill as per SBA but you know damn well Cynthia's usual strategy isnt to kill. Yes, she faced down someone who tried to destroy the universe, and even then didnt try to kill him, hell she just kinda stood there. And said man she was well aware wanted to destroy the universe before standing off against him, what, is Cynthia assuming every middle aged man is a serial killer now?

Yes, and Cynthia's range is only throwing distance, you seem to forget this is Kira Vs. Cynthia, not Kira Vs. 6 Stand alone Pokemon. As said, if you wanna get into it, you may as well say Cynthia has infinite range because the Pokemon can go however far they want away from Cynthia. As far as I'm concerned, Cynthia's SBA starting range is her maximum range not the Pokemon's range as this is Cynthia being used, she can call upon her Pokemon but the Pokemon arent her.
 
Doesnt matter either way, Cynthia still leads with Garchomp far more often than Spiritomb, in every known instance other than one tournament sanctioned battle. Anime, manga, even in Generations and all other Gen 4 based things. In a random encounter, even Gen 4 Cynthia, leads with Garchomp.

Also I wanna point out that looking through Ghost type Pokemon interactions and all that, there seems to be a few key things that havent been brought up.
 
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