- 6,605
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So far I don't remember it being the most accepted.
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Yogiri Takatou vs Battler Ushiromiya (Umineko )
- Thread starter Gohanblanco217
- Start date
- 6,605
- 4,155
So basically just is "we dont know who has the high ground"?
- 5,804
- 3,266
Still some people Accept it, and Ultima seems like hes not giving up debating lol. Anyways, we should bump that thread.
̶A̶n̶d̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶s̶e̶ ̶m̶o̶n̶t̶h̶s̶ ̶r̶a̶t̶h̶e̶r̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶o̶r̶t̶e̶r̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶a̶ ̶o̶p̶p̶o̶n̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶g̶a̶i̶n̶s̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶r̶ ̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶v̶e̶r̶s̶e̶ ̶l̶o̶l̶.̶
- 6,605
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Probably should bump yeah.
Also supporter just means that you like/love a series (and opponnent that you dislike/hate it), not that you let wrong stuff pass as long as they make the verse stronk.
- 3,566
- 879
- Thread starter
- #85
Bump
- 16
- 22
Check out the top 5 strongest 1-B. Yogiri is on a higher plane than Umineko.
- 3,759
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They can all be 1B just his more powerful anyways if battler defeats yogiri in this thread it would change.
Besides both are equally innumerable/countless into 1B
- 3,566
- 879
- Thread starter
- #88
Isn't Yogiri higher into countless 1-B ?
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Except yogiri scales far above those who are "countless"
as in, he literally obliterates people who stomped people who are "countless" by just existing
- 11,606
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Not true.
Because VSBW treats out "countless" entities as being at the same level, scaling above it actually does mean something. For the same reason that scaling above infinite means something on here.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,640
Is there some kind of thread/page that specifies those standards? Because it makes no sense.
Rez
He/Him- 4,819
- 1,965
No since that sort of scaling is only used for speed and nothing else and I am quite unsure as to why it's even used for speed as well
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- 3,759
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This is meaningless both are 1B and countless into it not as if battler has a defined number set since both are countless only thing left is to debate who wins.
Unless you have proof Yogiri countless is higher than battler countless which is impossible. I advice you to just debate it.
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
- 1,311
UEG is countless that can instantly endlessly ascend into higher realities and despite that she would never be able to even apraoch Yogiri’s true form regardless of how much time she is given. He is definitely above this, the technicalities don’t matter when he is treated like this within the series just like 2-A can be above baseline when the series treated higher sets and higher power.
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- Thread starter
- #98
Actually iirc this "above 2-A baseline " isn't accepted anymore
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Being above baseline 2-A can still be a thing via scaling chain
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Wasn't it implied that this is because UEG and the guy she was fighting were higher dimensional beings to begin with? And not having some ability to allow them to ascend to higher dimensions endlessly.
And I will just quote myself:
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And like I said, this is incorrect lol.
If being 1 is stated as being "countless" and being 2 ascends being 1 to such a degree that being 1 can never touch them at all, then being 2 obviously far more powerful.
Which is exactly how it is treated on here.
Even from a mathematical standpoint, you are incorrect. You are implying that one "arbitrary countless number" can't be bigger than another. This isn't true at all, since "countless" just means a really big number as you said. There can absolutely be numbers and scaling above it.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,640
And I need source for that
Bruh moment. Obviously one unknown number can be bigger than another. We just don't know which one is bigger. Hence it will be an inconclusive debate.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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She won't be able to interact because she is lower dimensional in comparison to Yogiri I guess?
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On vsbw, if "Entity A" and "Entity B" are both stated to be countless, they would be treated as being the same strength. Why wouldn't they??
Now imagine that "Entity A" has another person in their verse (We will call them "Entity C") who scales far above them in canon.
Would we not also assume that Entity C is above Entity B?
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
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So if you make a thread of UEG vs Battler and a thread of Yogiri vs Battler then somehow both are the same???
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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Would you just assume that two featless characters are equal just because they are featless and someone beating the first featless character will be stronger?
Like I said it would just be inconclusive until you introduce some kind of equalisation
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
- 1,311
You plainly don’t make sense to me. You somehow think that UEG and Yogiri both interact just as well with battler. UEG will simply never reach Yogiri no matter how many times she ascends endlessly but she’ll do just as well against Battler than Yogiri agaisnt him because “countless” can be any number when in the first place the wiki treats countless ratings equally as big just as in 2-B
Even following the train of thought of countless unknownness the fact that UEG would endlessly ascend and never reach Yogiri means that Yogiri is vastly more likely a higher unknown than battler.
Even following the train of thought of countless unknownness the fact that UEG would endlessly ascend and never reach Yogiri means that Yogiri is vastly more likely a higher unknown than battler.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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What I am saying is that we don't know the exact number of layers of any character here, so it's inconclusive until we equalise their planes of existence.
It wouldn't make sense since we are introducing an equalisation for the sake of debate. Otherwise the matches would be inconclusive
It wouldn't make sense since we are introducing an equalisation for the sake of debate. Otherwise the matches would be inconclusive
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Yep, but phantom made a good point that it's possible yogiri countless scales above battlers or umineko in general.
Guardian_Doge
He/Him- 628
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Following,
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
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It's impossible to determine whether one countless is above another or not. And with the kind of reasoning he gave I don't see why Yogiri wouldn't straight up be High 1-B/1-A, unless UEG's ascending to higher dimensions is because of being higher dimensional to begin with, in which case she would be unable to reach Yogiri even if he was merely one dimension higher than her cap which isn't saying much.
As for the match, yea Inconclusive seems the best outcome, unless we equalise their planes of existence in which case Battler seems to have the edge
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
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Because everything always has to be played safely when dealing with tier 1; there’s almost always more proof needed “to be safe”. Yogiri’s true from whole deal is that any phenomena, any system displayed in the verse is below him because he is the absolute and unchangeable nothingness beyond nothingness that’s his whole idea; concepts, death, space, time, casuality, fate, plot, ect are transcended. It’s just that this one thing we didn’t get a explicit statement so we’re stuck with playing it safe because maybe Yogiri is just ridiculously into 1-B.
But anyways that’s besides the point. Your whole unknown argument relies in that we have no reliable way to 100% determine who is in a higher plane than who but rarely does one actually get that. Instead however we do have a reliable enough indication on the likelihood that Yogiri transcends battler being more likely than equal. Meanwhile battler doesn’t remotely show any indication that there’s a chance he’d be higher.
Darksmash
He/Him- 1,494
- 1,640
"playing safe" isn't the same thing as just outright presenting arguments that would put a character at High 1-B and using it against a 1-B character by arguing Yogiri is just "retardedly high into 1-B"
By this logic Battler stomps because Lambdadelta said she was ascending the ladder for thousands of years or something and even she was afraid of some beings in City of Books iirc.
No we don't. Both of them are unknown. One unknown feeling stronger within the context of the verse doesn't make it any less unknown.
By this logic Battler stomps because Lambdadelta said she was ascending the ladder for thousands of years or something and even she was afraid of some beings in City of Books iirc.
PhantomØ4
He/Him- 2,107
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Slur and but whatever idrc if it’s not agaisnt the rules. You just repeated yourself without anything to add too besides the “well if that was the case” but anyways even by that logic Yogiri would be higher into 1-B because UEG reached countless in an instant and continued ascending yet would never get past Yogiri. That’s how it’s been treated; as a ridiculously strong 1-B and I don’t really have the motivation to carry a CRT on ID nor plan to in the near future. As far as I am aware there were other people waiting on more chapters because it’s better to have more stuff to support than argue for 4 pages but again, don’t care much for it atm.
Also mentioned this before but the wiki treated countless like a variable value akin to just X as far as I’m aware where X does not have a concrete value but X = X. Thus it’s treatment in 2-B
Also mentioned this before but the wiki treated countless like a variable value akin to just X as far as I’m aware where X does not have a concrete value but X = X. Thus it’s treatment in 2-B
