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Yhwach's Power Nullification

Omimi said:
do all normal human in SS has reiatsu above average ?
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Their invisibility doesn't work in SS and hueco mundo where literally everyone and everything else is made from reishi. But it will work in place where stuff is made from normal matter, they will become invisible in those worlds for everyone except for ppl who have reiatsu above average.
 
basically you asking:

>Why ghost is not invisble to other ghost?

Because guess what, reishi is spiritual matter. You pretty much need to become a spirit so you can enter SS.
 
This is dumb.

Anyone that goes against Yhwach that is not invisible by default and uses invisibility will do nothing.

Everyone in Bleach that has a bit of reiatsu can see invisible beings and attacks.

Professor's thread point would make sense if Yhwach goes against an invisible opponent by default and then uses invisibility again and that cannot be seen by people who can already see invisible people.

OP is asking if Yhwach has canceled abilities from already invisible users who can become invisible x2. Because the spiritual world is not visible to humans, therefore, no one in Soul Society is invisible because everyone has the ability to see each other.
 
MachTwo said:
basically you asking:

>Why ghost is not invisble to other ghost?

Because guess what, reishi is spiritual matter. You pretty much need to become a spirit so you can enter SS.
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No. He is asking if Ghost who are already invisible from the living world can turn even more invisible that ghost can't even see them. Lmao
 
For one, the toxicity in this thread is rather overwhelming. Kindly tone it all the way down

Something I'm wondering:

The Almighty gives its users the ability to see all possible futures, undisputed.

However, nothing I've seen or read even implies that it allows the wielder the ability to see things that they be capable of seeing if they were not loking into the future.

Example. There is an invisible rock, Yhwach can't see it. Yhwach uses The Almighty to look into the future. Even though he is using The Almighty, Yhwach still can't see that rock, because the Almighty does not increase his ability to see things that would be invisible to him normally.
 
Link Eternal said:
snip
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Well, does the rock have a soul? Technically, any user of The Almighty could see anything with a soul. And everything in Bleach has a soul.

So verse-equalization per standard battle rules takes care of this question altogether, actually, I'm realizing.
 
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Wasn't Yhwach the one that sealed Gremmy in the first place? And was stated to be the only person capable of of doing so or something like that?
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Yup, he was indeed. Gremmy is known as the #2 strongest Quincy by the Sternritter and only Yhwach can top him, and did indeed seal him per the latest novel
 
He chose to do so for two reason:

1. Plot convenience and a prophesy

2. If he had done so earlier before the prophesied time, he would kill all the Sternritter inadvertently
 
Xulrev said:
Snip
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I think you might have missed my point.

If Yhwach can't see something without the Almighty. he won't be able to see it if even if he's looking into the future with the Almighty.

And while the Almighty is most likely the most absurd hax in Bleach, it is not infallable even in-verse.
 
What does this have to do with anything? I don't know the answer to that question link but it does not matter. I'm not even using the soul argument others are using. But you don't need to physically see a power to understand it is my point. It's quite frankly the only one that matters
 
Link Eternal said:
I think you might have missed my point.

If Yhwach can't see something without the Almighty. he won't be able to see it if even if he's looking into the future with the Almighty.

And while the Almighty is most likely the most absurd hax in Bleach, it is not infallable even in-verse.
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Lmao what are you talking about? He affected things through Kyoka Suigetsu, when he wasn't even 'looking' at the real thing, so of course he can affect things he 'can't see'.
 
Ariandelle said:
What does this have to do with anything? I don't know the answer to that question link but it does not matter. I'm not even using the soul argument others are using. But you don't need to physically see a power to understand it is my point. It's quite frankly the only one that matters
Click to expand...
Aria is also correct here.

You have to create a meta argument on what it means to 'witness' a power here to try and downplay Yhwach. I could easily argue that witnessing a fire manipulator create fire wasn't me witnessing the 'power' in action but merely the effect the power had on the world; Yhwach would still null that power, and canonically has done such with things even more abstract.

The entire OP really is a bit ludicrous to question when, to engage it, one must presume the very definition we are given for The Almighty and how it works is non-canon and we are seeing absurdly reaching arguments to even try and poke holes in it.
 
Xulrev said:
snip
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This is nice. So what happens when Yhwach also can't percieve the effect a hax has on the world?

Also, the word canon is thrown around a bit too much here, and most times it is actually more insulting than I think people realize or intend. Just because a controversal point of view is brought up, does not mean that the person bringing it up is uninformed about the topic, or didn't thoroughly dissect their own arguments to the best of their ability.

Someone is disregarding canon? Perhaps the other side has not thought as critically about the topic as they should.
 
So Link, you're asking me what happens when an ability that has no effect whatsoever on anything, ever, is used?

....nothing happens I guess, since by definition in this analogy it does nothing.
 
There are major false equivalancies here that are just ridiculous and nothing but reaches.

>"Ichigo can't use Gran Rey Cero, Getsuga Jushisho in The World of the Living because he only used it on Soul Society."

This contributes to absolutely nothing here. Ichigo "only using" those moves in the Soul Society are because he only used them against opponents where the fight just happened to take place in the Soul Society.

Shinigami not being invisible outside the world of the living is based on a natural verse mechanic. They are invisible in the world of the living because of 2 things, low level reiryoku and the world being made of Kishi (physical matter). Thats the only reason why spirits in bleach are invisible at all. You can't have a spirit be invisible in a world thats 100% spiritual based like the soul society or hueco mundo, where everyone and their mother are spirits too. You have to become reishi just to enter those worlds.

This is not the same thing at all.

>This is dumb, everyone in bleach can see invisble spirit scale from the fact that everyone who has reiatsu above average can see invisible spirit in the human world, nevermind that everyone who have decent control of their reiatsu can see stuff wihout relying on their eyes

This means absolutely nothing as invisibility in bleach becomes irrelevant when you enter the Soul Society or Hueco Mundo. Spiritual perceptive abilities being scaled from one character to another only matters when they are in the world of the living, the only world out of the 3 where spirits are invisible.

Yhwach has never used his Almighty to foresee invisible spirits, much less null the powers of them, in the world of the living. So this point is 100% worthless here.
 
Link Eternal said:
So you are telling me that Yhwach can percieve every effect something has on anything ever?
Click to expand...
Not what I stated. I'm asking you to clarify your question, since it seemed to be 'a hax that never has an effect on anything ever that is perceptible'.
 
Link Eternal said:
The Almighty gives its users the ability to see all possible futures, undisputed.

However, nothing I've seen or read even implies that it allows the wielder the ability to see things that they be capable of seeing if they were not loking into the future.

Example. There is an invisible rock, Yhwach can't see it. Yhwach uses The Almighty to look into the future. Even though he is using The Almighty, Yhwach still can't see that rock, because the Almighty does not increase his ability to see things that would be invisible to him normally.
Click to expand...
Link summed up exactly what im currently talking about here.

The almighty doesnt enhance Yhwach's sight, only the range of it via seeing into all possible futures. Just because Yhwach uses it to expand his sights range doesnt mean the Almighty enhances his vision to a level where he can see things that he wouldnt be able to see without it. Links example is a perfect one. Yhwach cant see an invisible rock with his own eyes, so what makes you think the Almighty will allow him to bypass the rocks invisibility and see it simply because the range of Yhwach's sight has heavily increased?
 
Actually I'm not sure anyone has said that. They said he can see the invisible in general.So all that for nothing I suppose
 
>So what happens when Yhwach also can't percieve the effect a hax has on the world?

>So Link, you're asking me what happens when an ability that has no effect whatsoever on anything, ever, is used?

>So you are telling me that Yhwach can percieve every effect something has on anything ever?

>Not what I stated. I'm asking you to clarify your question, since it seemed to be 'a hax that never has an effect on anything ever that is perceptible'.

Alright, I'll rewind a bit:

>So Link, you're asking me what happens when an ability that has no effect whatsoever on anything, ever, is used?

No, this is not at all what I'm asking. I'm asking if Yhwach can neg an ability if he can neither see the ability being manifested, nor the effects the maniifested ability has on the world.
 
So you're asking what happens if a hax exists such that it has no effect that manifests, yes? Nothing results from its usage?
 
>You mean a verse whos invisiblity is only useful in one world. The living world. Somewhere Yhwach has never used the Almighty in to null powers. Had he done that, I would understand this point.

What the **** does Yhwach's invisibility have to do with the Almighty being the greatest power in a series with non-physical powers, and thus would have the power to null said abilities?

>Yhwach's power null works by Yhwach understanding a power and making that power be on his side. Yhwach doesnt need to see his own powers in order to understand them since...well...they're his own powers...he'd know what they do whether he can see them or not for obvious reasons.

Now if Yhwach forsaw invisible powers from an opponent, and nulled it, then that would be evidence of Yhwach seeing invisible powers. But we are never given anything like that in the entire Blood War arc of the manga.

Yhwach's power null is done by seeing a power, and by the virtue of seeing it, he understands it, and then said power takes his side because of that.

Also, I am almost entirely postive Gremmy's power didn't come from Yhwach. Isn't implied that Gremmy is the mind of the Soul King?

And Yhwach negated Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation - which is an non-physical power.

>Your not quite correct here. Yes, im making a claim. But im making a negative claim, which doesnt need to proven. You on the other hand however, are making a positive claim. Im saying Yhwach cant forsee invisible powers from opponents, while you are saying he can. The negative doesnt need to be proven, but the positive does. Thats how Burden of Proof works.

So no, this isnt over yet.

That's ridiculous and is an insane bias, the Burden of Proof is on the person who makes the initiating claim - whether said claim be positive or negative is irrelevant.

Any definitio of the Burden of Proof on any website will tell you this. The defintion is that the person making the claim, needs to back up their claim with proof.

Why should this wiki's defintion be so skewed towards skepticism instead of trying to propagate an even debate?


Despite that, like I said earlier - Yhwach negated Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation - which is a non-physical power.
 
>Also not evidence since Shinigami cannot use their invisiblity outside of the living world, a world entirely made of Kishi (physical matter)

Where did you get this non-sense?


Shinigami ARE invisible in the living world, that's why they have Gigai's - so they can be seen and interact with the Human World.
 
>What the **** does Yhwach's invisibility have to do with the Almighty being the greatest power in a series with non-physical powers, and thus would have the power to null said abilities?

Because those invisible powers are only invisible in one setting: the world of the living. And Yhwach has no feats of using the Almighty to negate those powers when they're actually invisible. He only has feats of negating them when within the Soul Society (and Hueco Mundo by extension), where these powers are used 100% visibly in these spiritually based worlds.

In other words, just because Yhwach can negate the powers of bleachverse doesnt mean he can negate them when they are invisible in the world of the living. Feats trump statement and Yhwach has never negated these powers when used invisibly in the living world.

>And Yhwach negated Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation - which is an non-physical power.

And Ichibe's conceptual manipulation is done by using Ichimonji's black ink to splatter someone with it and re-write their name. It is absolutely not invisible. The effects are, the power itself isnt. Yhwach's Almighty gained dominion over the ink to negate the inks power in general by turning Ichibe's ink over to his side, hence why when Yhwach's Almighty activated the ink just slid off.

>That's ridiculous and is an insane bias, the Burden of Proof is on the person who makes the initiating claim - whether said claim be positive or negative is irrelevant.

It is very much so relevant. Because again, I have made a negative claim while you have made a positive claim. If someone makes a negative claim, they are claiming that x did not happen. You cant provide evidence for something never happening since its claimed it never happened to begin with and thus evidence for it not happening would never come. However, if someone makes a positive claim, then they are claiming that y did in fact actually happen, that it does exist. And if it exists, then there's evidence for it since it's claimed to have happened.

I dont know why your complaining when thats exactly how this wikia works and has always worked. Someone doesnt need to prove a negative, but someone does need to prove a positive. You can only prove what somethings happened, not what something didnt happen.
 
Warren Valion said:
>Also not evidence since Shinigami cannot use their invisiblity outside of the living world, a world entirely made of Kishi (physical matter)
Where did you get this non-sense?

Shinigami ARE invisible in the living world, that's why they have Gigai's - so they can be seen and interact with the Human World.
Click to expand...
......I never denied this. Re-read the reply.

I said that shinigami cant use their invisibility OUTSIDE the living world. As in the Soul Society or Hueco Mundo, which are spiritually based worlds.
 
@Xulrev

>So you're asking what happens if a hax exists such that it has no effect that manifests, yes? Nothing results from its usage?

No, I'm asking what happens if Yhwach can't see the application of an ability, or effect that manifests, not that no ability is used, or that there is no effect.

@Warren

>And Yhwach negated Ichibe's Conceptual Manipulation - which is an non-physical power.

You mean the non-physical power that requires a very much visible(and physical) applicatio
 
Heavens Feel said:
Um. The fact that ghosts can see other ghosts?
Click to expand...
That isnt evidence. Ghosts can see other ghosts in general for one being a ghost like the other, especially when entering the Soul Society or Hueco Mundo since your literally becoming Reishi.

That has nothing to do with the ability to see ghosts like you could do in the living world.
 
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