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Oh, i dunno the guy i just thought he was trolling.
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Yhwach's Power Nullification
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
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Uhhh... did you even read what Yhwach says?ProfessorKukui4Life said:
"Now that my 'eyes' are open... from this moment on, I can see everything that will unfold until the distant future. I can 'know' everything that I see. And... all the 'powers' that I know take my side. Not only can they not be used to defeat me...they cannot even be used to harm me. That is my power. 'The Almighty'"
Everything that he sees - he knows, and every power that he knows from seeing, will take his side.
The Almighty is a cornucopia of powers, but a majority of the powers are connected to one another - one leads into the other. It is because of Yhwach's vision that his Info analysis is able to read powers, and it is because he is able to read powers that they take his side.
There is nowhere in the series where Yhwach says, "I look into the future to study abilites and then I am able to take them." or something along those lines - he just needs to see to know, and when he knows, the powers are his. Nothing states that Yhwach studies abilities to understand them - it states that to understand them, he looks with his vision.
To say otherwise is to go against what the character and owner of the power you are questioning is saying, and at that point you are just spewing your own headcanon.
This isn't really that hard of a concept to understand, and this isn't even limited to just Yhwach. Information Analysis is a power that exists in fiction and on the wiki, you know. And it is just one such ability that The Almighty grants.
Also, trying to downplay a character because "logic dicates you can't understand a power from just seeing it" is facetious.
This is fiction, not everything is logical - nor is this concept of understanding a power by viewing it particularly original to Yhwach.
Kars is another character that comes to mind when thinking about this concept.
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Considering that there has been stuff in this thread that I conceded to already, this is already wrong. And "nobody ever agreeing to them"? Go through some threads ive recently made with people kudosing them and say that again.The Prince of Counters said:
This is starting to look more like you saying its a "personal problem" whenver someone has doubt about a Bleach statistics or ability. This happeneed in my Acasuality thread, this happened in the Bleach upgrade threads that got very chaotic through and through, and its happening here too.
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It's a personal problem because i explained in the most simple way i could about how it works, and you said "Nuh! BS!". Okay, idk what to tell you fam. That's how it is. That's the only thing you can even get out of that panel unless you want to downplay than you look for a small loophole and go from there. You just looking for a weakness that doesn't make anysense. And if i'm being honest, everything you said was bs lol. But again, personal problem. You can ask kubo or tell him to change it.
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This has nothing to do with "finding a small loophole". As ive said many times before, I am a Bleach fan as well and im not trying to downgrade anything since I know for a fact that Yhwach has power nulling.
This is about having a genuine problem with how the power is being treated and the only rebuttals your side has given to contribute to this is "your downplaying, your not understanding the ability, etc.". All we have is one vague character statement as evidence for this in general, which means a lot of this can be treated incorrectly. "Seeing every power and negating them" can easily just mean, again, that Yhwach negates only the powers that can be visibly seen being used against him in the future and that any power that cannot be visibly viewed remains safe from being nullified.
If you claim otherwise, then its your burden of proof to prove that Yhwach can do that.
This is about having a genuine problem with how the power is being treated and the only rebuttals your side has given to contribute to this is "your downplaying, your not understanding the ability, etc.". All we have is one vague character statement as evidence for this in general, which means a lot of this can be treated incorrectly. "Seeing every power and negating them" can easily just mean, again, that Yhwach negates only the powers that can be visibly seen being used against him in the future and that any power that cannot be visibly viewed remains safe from being nullified.
If you claim otherwise, then its your burden of proof to prove that Yhwach can do that.
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The statement isn't vague in the slightest. The Almighty allows Yhwach to see all of the future and all the powers that he sees, he knows, and all the powers that he knows take his side.ProfessorKukui4Life said:
What is confusing or vague about any of that? It's extremtly straightforward - it is an explanation of how his powers work after all.
And the fact that Yhwach's Almighty is the strongest Schrift and the greatest power in Bleach - a verse filled and a type of abiltiy that is surrounded by non-physical abilities proves that
The Balance, Deathdealing, the Wind, the Visionary, et cetera are all Schrifts that aren't physical, and they are all abilites that are below Yhwach's Almighty.
That's why we know the power doesn't have to be physical to be nulled, because non-physical powers have been stated to be nothing to the Almighty.
And what? The opposition has delivered proof - the examples I listed above are that. Non-physical powers are nothing to the Almighty and thus the Almighty can negate them.
And besides, I am 90% certain the Burden of Proof is on you in this argument. The Burden of Proof is on the person who is making the claim. You are the one making the claim here.
Said claim being that by Yhwach explaining his powers, that he means he can only null physical powers - despite the evidence pointing to the contrary being that all powers in the verse (that includes both physical and non-physical powers) are stated to be nothing to the Almighty's powers.
You're the one making the claim, you're the one stating this belief despite not having any lick of proof backing such a claim.
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The question was pretty simple.
Im asking if Yhwach is able to see powers that can't be physically seen. An invisible power.
Yhwach can see Shinigami who are invisible in the first place, so that character should be invisible to people who can see invisible beings in the first place. Example: Boruto vanishing Rasengan will still be visible to Yhwach.
Im asking if Yhwach is able to see powers that can't be physically seen. An invisible power.
Yhwach can see Shinigami who are invisible in the first place, so that character should be invisible to people who can see invisible beings in the first place. Example: Boruto vanishing Rasengan will still be visible to Yhwach.
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his questioned was answred it's over
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>The statement isn't vague in the slightest. The Almighty allows Yhwach to see all of the future and all the powers that he sees, he knows, and all the powers that he knows take his side.
What is confusing or vague about any of that? It's extremtly straightforward - it is an explanation of how his powers work after all.
Easy. What he "sees" can easily be limited to seeing the power be physically visibly used. Like fire manipulation or energy blasts. Not just the power being present in the future whatsoever. And I seriously hope I dont have to explain the significant difference between the former and the latter.
>And the fact that Yhwach's Almighty is the strongest Schrift and the greatest power in Bleach - a verse filled and a type of abiltiy that is surrounded by non-physical abilities proves that
You mean a verse whos invisiblity is only useful in one world. The living world. Somewhere Yhwach has never used the Almighty in to null powers. Had he done that, I would understand this point.
>The Balance, Deathdealing, the Wind, the Visionary, et cetera are all Schrifts that aren't physical, and they are all abilites that are below Yhwach's Almighty.
Already countered this. While these abilities are indeed invisible powers, the problem you aren't seeing here is that they are Yhwach's powers. Powers that he bestowed onto the Sternritter to take back later for himself via Aushwhalen.
Yhwach's power null works by Yhwach understanding a power and making that power be on his side. Yhwach doesnt need to see his own powers in order to understand them since...well...they're his own powers...he'd know what they do whether he can see them or not for obvious reasons.
Now if Yhwach forsaw invisible powers from an opponent, and nulled it, then that would be evidence of Yhwach seeing invisible powers. But we are never given anything like that in the entire Blood War arc of the manga.
>And what? The opposition has delivered proof - the examples I listed above are that. Non-physical powers are nothing to the Almighty and thus the Almighty can negate them.
See above. All of these evidences are based on powers that come from Yhwach himself, not the opponents. Thus, its not enough.
>And besides, I am 90% certain the Burden of Proof is on you in this argument. The Burden of Proof is on the person who is making the claim. You are the one making the claim here.
Your not quite correct here. Yes, im making a claim. But im making a negative claim, which doesnt need to proven. You on the other hand however, are making a positive claim. Im saying Yhwach cant forsee invisible powers from opponents, while you are saying he ca. The negative doesnt need to be proven, but the positive does. Thats how Burden of Proof works.
So no, this isnt over yet.
What is confusing or vague about any of that? It's extremtly straightforward - it is an explanation of how his powers work after all.
Easy. What he "sees" can easily be limited to seeing the power be physically visibly used. Like fire manipulation or energy blasts. Not just the power being present in the future whatsoever. And I seriously hope I dont have to explain the significant difference between the former and the latter.
>And the fact that Yhwach's Almighty is the strongest Schrift and the greatest power in Bleach - a verse filled and a type of abiltiy that is surrounded by non-physical abilities proves that
You mean a verse whos invisiblity is only useful in one world. The living world. Somewhere Yhwach has never used the Almighty in to null powers. Had he done that, I would understand this point.
>The Balance, Deathdealing, the Wind, the Visionary, et cetera are all Schrifts that aren't physical, and they are all abilites that are below Yhwach's Almighty.
Already countered this. While these abilities are indeed invisible powers, the problem you aren't seeing here is that they are Yhwach's powers. Powers that he bestowed onto the Sternritter to take back later for himself via Aushwhalen.
Yhwach's power null works by Yhwach understanding a power and making that power be on his side. Yhwach doesnt need to see his own powers in order to understand them since...well...they're his own powers...he'd know what they do whether he can see them or not for obvious reasons.
Now if Yhwach forsaw invisible powers from an opponent, and nulled it, then that would be evidence of Yhwach seeing invisible powers. But we are never given anything like that in the entire Blood War arc of the manga.
>And what? The opposition has delivered proof - the examples I listed above are that. Non-physical powers are nothing to the Almighty and thus the Almighty can negate them.
See above. All of these evidences are based on powers that come from Yhwach himself, not the opponents. Thus, its not enough.
>And besides, I am 90% certain the Burden of Proof is on you in this argument. The Burden of Proof is on the person who is making the claim. You are the one making the claim here.
Your not quite correct here. Yes, im making a claim. But im making a negative claim, which doesnt need to proven. You on the other hand however, are making a positive claim. Im saying Yhwach cant forsee invisible powers from opponents, while you are saying he ca. The negative doesnt need to be proven, but the positive does. Thats how Burden of Proof works.
So no, this isnt over yet.
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Shinigami are only invisible in the World of the Living, somewhere Yhwach has never used the Almighty in, let alone to null powers.AppleLord said:
Had he did, I would have agreed to this point.
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You mean sorta like how he conquered a country in the real world since Quincies are Human by nature, and he led a campaign analogous to Hitler essential and THEN formed the Sternritter to invade Soul Society?ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Pretty big plot point for Bazz B backstory there
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That invisibility isn't limited to the world of the living at all. Its limited to people with low reiryoku, something pluses and fodder Hollows don't fall under.
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Which is only in the World of the Living.AnonymousBlank said:
No where in the history of the verse have shinigami ever used invisiblity in either the Soul Society or Hueco Mundo, worlds that are 100% pure reishi based. You have to become a Konpaku just to enter those worlds.
Not only that, regular humans are able to see Shinigami when they enter the soul society. A literal normal human with low reiryoku was able to see Aizen before he got reiatsu-vaporized.
So no, their invisiblity doesnt work anywhere outside the world of the living, which is entirely Kishi based.
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What does this have to do with anything I said before Xulrev?Xulrev said:
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If this is supposed to be an insult, I would drop it immediately.PaChi2 said:
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And again, if your trying to be condescending here PaChi, I would drop it immediately.
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Yikes why is this still going
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Because of people not bringing forth what constitutes as actual evidence. As well as made up headcanon like Shinigami being invisible outside the living world.
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"Evidence" you talk of burden of proof yet nothing in Yhwach's description of the almighty says anything about something having to be physically visible. The proof is in what he says. It's not our fault you can't understand what he is saying. Actually, I personally think you do, but as I said earlier trying to nitpick so you can give him a dumb weakness that makes no sense.
What is so hard? He has seen that power in the future. So he knows what it is capable of. That's literally what he means. Stop this nonsense holy shit, it's as simple as that. He doesn't mean, uhh it's physically visible so I null. Ask yourself does that makes sense??????????? No.
Let me tell you what you are doing, you are failing at comprehending what he is saying, you are ignoring common sense, and lore. Stop it. Again ask kubo or something. I'm sorry you have to be spoon fed
What is so hard? He has seen that power in the future. So he knows what it is capable of. That's literally what he means. Stop this nonsense holy shit, it's as simple as that. He doesn't mean, uhh it's physically visible so I null. Ask yourself does that makes sense??????????? No.
Let me tell you what you are doing, you are failing at comprehending what he is saying, you are ignoring common sense, and lore. Stop it. Again ask kubo or something. I'm sorry you have to be spoon fed
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>"Evidence" you talk of burden of proof yet nothing in Yhwach's description of the almighty says anything about something having to be physically visible. The proof is in what he says.
The fact that he has to see the power to then understand it and then negate it literally in itself implies he needs to physically visibly see it. So yes, its your burden of proof to prove even invisible powers can be seen by him.
>Actually, I personally thing you do, but as I said earlier trying to nitpick so you can give him a dumb weakness that makes no sense.
Im not even pushing to give any weakness to him actually. All im asking for is evidence to prove he can do so. But I will push for it if said evidence never comes.
>What is so hard? He has seen that power in the future. So he knows what it is capable of. That's literally what he means.
And again, you need to give evidence that this applies to powers that cant be visibly seen. Like for instance, a time stop. Time has no visible form to it like fire manipulation or energy blasts do, so you need to prove Yhwach can see a power that has no visible form to it from the future.
> He doesn't mean, uhh it's physically visible so I null. Aka yourself does that makes sense??????????? No.
How would it not make sense? You can't see something that has no form to it. So let me ask you this.
Say Yhwach was to see someone use time stop to freeze time in the future. Again, time has no physical form to it, you cant literally "see time". So how would Yhwach be able to know its a time stop to then understand it and then negate it?
This is what im talking about. If he has to see a power to negate it, then what evidence is there that this applies to powers that cant be seen?
The fact that he has to see the power to then understand it and then negate it literally in itself implies he needs to physically visibly see it. So yes, its your burden of proof to prove even invisible powers can be seen by him.
>Actually, I personally thing you do, but as I said earlier trying to nitpick so you can give him a dumb weakness that makes no sense.
Im not even pushing to give any weakness to him actually. All im asking for is evidence to prove he can do so. But I will push for it if said evidence never comes.
>What is so hard? He has seen that power in the future. So he knows what it is capable of. That's literally what he means.
And again, you need to give evidence that this applies to powers that cant be visibly seen. Like for instance, a time stop. Time has no visible form to it like fire manipulation or energy blasts do, so you need to prove Yhwach can see a power that has no visible form to it from the future.
> He doesn't mean, uhh it's physically visible so I null. Aka yourself does that makes sense??????????? No.
How would it not make sense? You can't see something that has no form to it. So let me ask you this.
Say Yhwach was to see someone use time stop to freeze time in the future. Again, time has no physical form to it, you cant literally "see time". So how would Yhwach be able to know its a time stop to then understand it and then negate it?
This is what im talking about. If he has to see a power to negate it, then what evidence is there that this applies to powers that cant be seen?
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Brooooooooooooooo he aint talking about the form do you smoke
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Cool. Give evidence for that.
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I wish he would null your power tbh. I didn't know you had one untill you kept replying
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Putting jokes aside, my points still stand.
Majority of the evidence of Yhwach seeing invisible powers is not actual evidence. Sternritter powers? They're Yhwach's powers, he doesnt need to see his ow powers in order to understand them (plus, since theyre his own powers, he wouldnt even need to negate them; they'd already be on his side). Seeing Shinigami? Also not evidence since Shinigami cannot use their invisiblity outside of the living world, a world entirely made of Kishi (physical matter) and people with low-spiritual awareness that cannot see spirits. Being within the Soul Society or Hueco Mundo, worlds that are entirely made up of Reishi (spiritual matter) make their invisibility unusuable in those worlds. And Yhwach has never used the Almighty in the living world, much less to negate powers.
The only saving grace you guys have here is Yhwach's statement of "I can know everything that I see". "everyting that I see" seems to be having its context twisted up. If Yhwach has to see something to know it, and then know it to negate it, then thats only further implying he needs to visibly see the power being used in the future he's observing and that if he cant see it, he cant understand it. Your argument is making "everything that I see" being equaled to "I see everything" whether something is visible or not and we have 0 evidence of the latter being the case.
Majority of the evidence of Yhwach seeing invisible powers is not actual evidence. Sternritter powers? They're Yhwach's powers, he doesnt need to see his ow powers in order to understand them (plus, since theyre his own powers, he wouldnt even need to negate them; they'd already be on his side). Seeing Shinigami? Also not evidence since Shinigami cannot use their invisiblity outside of the living world, a world entirely made of Kishi (physical matter) and people with low-spiritual awareness that cannot see spirits. Being within the Soul Society or Hueco Mundo, worlds that are entirely made up of Reishi (spiritual matter) make their invisibility unusuable in those worlds. And Yhwach has never used the Almighty in the living world, much less to negate powers.
The only saving grace you guys have here is Yhwach's statement of "I can know everything that I see". "everyting that I see" seems to be having its context twisted up. If Yhwach has to see something to know it, and then know it to negate it, then thats only further implying he needs to visibly see the power being used in the future he's observing and that if he cant see it, he cant understand it. Your argument is making "everything that I see" being equaled to "I see everything" whether something is visible or not and we have 0 evidence of the latter being the case.
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You're mistake is implying something needs to be physically seen to be understood. You ignore the effects a power can have and only focus on what is visible physically. Yhwach is viewing the future as a spectator, so he is seeing what is happening in those futures. It doesn't matter if it's "invisible". Its not about that. It's about what that power does and the effect it has. This is how he understands it by viewing the future. This is why the balance does not work. If he says "I have seen that power" it means he saw a future where it was used, what it does, how it works, and the effects it has. By your logic air bending beats Yhwach. It has nothing to do with the physically visible and the all to do with the future the power is used in that he sees. He understand it cause he seen the future where it was used. Stop focusing on the "power" and focus on the futures he sees. Everytime he says see, gaze, Vision he is talking about the future. For some reason you are ignorant to this.
If that does not help you, nothing will.
If that does not help you, nothing will.
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Yhwach was able to absorb the Heart of the Soul King, from a distance, whose power was conceptual in nature.
I don't think you ever responded to the idea of how he affected Gerard Valkyrie with The Almighty, truth be told, considering how non-physical literally everything about his power is, Kukui; just a quick aside on some powerful evidence that fits your criterion.
I don't think you ever responded to the idea of how he affected Gerard Valkyrie with The Almighty, truth be told, considering how non-physical literally everything about his power is, Kukui; just a quick aside on some powerful evidence that fits your criterion.
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Without feats of being able to see invisible abilities, its not really a mistake. Im going off of what the series has given us, not what twisted up context from a single character statement gives us.
>It doesn't matter if it's "invisible". Its not about that. It's about what that power does and the effect it has. This is how he understands it by viewing the future.
Where in Yhwach's statement is any of this even remotely implied? Its like you said, Yhwach is spectating the future as a spectator to see what happens inside of those futures. He can only understand a power by actually seeing it, Yhwach himself says this flat out.
If im reading this right, your saying that Yhwach only needs to see the event as a whole taking place instead of the specific power itself being visibly used. Which there is absolutely no evidence from Yhwach's statement that supports this.
>The balance
Which is a power of Yhwachs that he gave to Uryu.....for the 5th time. So again, this is not evidence.
>If he says "I have seen that power" it means he saw a future where it was used, what it does, how it works, and the effects it has.
Which he could only see in the first place if the power itself has a visible form to it. Like fire manipulation being used and shown to burn someone. Nothing implies Yhwach only needs to see the event itself take place as thats pushing the capabilities of his sight to levels that he has never been depicted in having.
>By your logic air bending beats Yhwach.
Besides bending being no where remotely close enough to even make Yhwach flinch (if you were talking about Avatar as an example), Air and Wind Manipulation isnt invisible. It becomes clearly visible when wind is being manipulated to form wind blasts, tornadoes, etc. So this isnt a good example.
>It has nothing to do with the physically visible and the all to do with the future the power is used in that he sees. He understand it cause he seen the future where it was used
And if he sees no power being visibly used, like time hax for example, then what is he seeing? How will he understand it? Again, Yhwachs statement doesnt prove Yhwach only needs to see the entire event taking place as opposed to needing to see the power itself being visible performed in the future.
>It doesn't matter if it's "invisible". Its not about that. It's about what that power does and the effect it has. This is how he understands it by viewing the future.
Where in Yhwach's statement is any of this even remotely implied? Its like you said, Yhwach is spectating the future as a spectator to see what happens inside of those futures. He can only understand a power by actually seeing it, Yhwach himself says this flat out.
If im reading this right, your saying that Yhwach only needs to see the event as a whole taking place instead of the specific power itself being visibly used. Which there is absolutely no evidence from Yhwach's statement that supports this.
>The balance
Which is a power of Yhwachs that he gave to Uryu.....for the 5th time. So again, this is not evidence.
>If he says "I have seen that power" it means he saw a future where it was used, what it does, how it works, and the effects it has.
Which he could only see in the first place if the power itself has a visible form to it. Like fire manipulation being used and shown to burn someone. Nothing implies Yhwach only needs to see the event itself take place as thats pushing the capabilities of his sight to levels that he has never been depicted in having.
>By your logic air bending beats Yhwach.
Besides bending being no where remotely close enough to even make Yhwach flinch (if you were talking about Avatar as an example), Air and Wind Manipulation isnt invisible. It becomes clearly visible when wind is being manipulated to form wind blasts, tornadoes, etc. So this isnt a good example.
>It has nothing to do with the physically visible and the all to do with the future the power is used in that he sees. He understand it cause he seen the future where it was used
And if he sees no power being visibly used, like time hax for example, then what is he seeing? How will he understand it? Again, Yhwachs statement doesnt prove Yhwach only needs to see the entire event taking place as opposed to needing to see the power itself being visible performed in the future.
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This is one giant nitpick tbh.
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Just stop typing
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There's nothing nitpicky about this. This is twisting the context of one. single. character statement to assume Yhwach is able to see powers in any form in the future, regardless of whether or not they are visible or invisible ones. And his own character statement doesnt support this.Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
If he needs to see them, then that takes away from him seeing invisible powers.
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Imagine me explaining the best way I can and you are still spouting the same nonsense.
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Here is the professor logic in a nutshell.
"Ichigo can't use Gran Rey Cero, Getsuga Jushisho in The World of the Living because he only used it on Soul Society."
Almighty Yhwach was using Almighty in the World of the Living in the Bazz-B flashback 1,000 years ago to find Jugram.
This discussion is pointless since by default the battlefield will get equalized, so Yhwach could be seen by others and Yhwach can fight with 100% of his powers in an environment like Hueco Mundo or Soul Society where there's enough Reishi for them to fight at their 100%.
"Ichigo can't use Gran Rey Cero, Getsuga Jushisho in The World of the Living because he only used it on Soul Society."
Almighty Yhwach was using Almighty in the World of the Living in the Bazz-B flashback 1,000 years ago to find Jugram.
This discussion is pointless since by default the battlefield will get equalized, so Yhwach could be seen by others and Yhwach can fight with 100% of his powers in an environment like Hueco Mundo or Soul Society where there's enough Reishi for them to fight at their 100%.
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Someone close this lmao.
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Even if he hasn't nullified abilities in which the cause isn't visible for example telekinesis.
Lorewise he can. All the evidence for lorewise is above.
End of.
Lorewise he can. All the evidence for lorewise is above.
End of.
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>You mean a verse whos invisiblity is only useful in one world. The living world. Somewhere Yhwach has never used the Almighty in to null powers. Had he done that, I would understand this point.
This is dumb, everyone in bleach can see invisble spirit scale from the fact that everyone who has reiatsu above average can see invisible spirit in the human world, nevermind that everyone who have decent control of their reiatsu can see stuff wihout relying on their eyes
This is dumb, everyone in bleach can see invisble spirit scale from the fact that everyone who has reiatsu above average can see invisible spirit in the human world, nevermind that everyone who have decent control of their reiatsu can see stuff wihout relying on their eyes
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No, they explicitly do not; Yammy using Gonzui could outright kill every single 'normal' human in the Living World due to their lack of any notable reiatsu, whereas everyone who had some was able to resist the soul suck
Edit: just now realizing you asked in 'SS'; Soul Society doesn't have humans?
Edit: just now realizing you asked in 'SS'; Soul Society doesn't have humans?
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