Yhwach vs The Medaka Box verse

[LordGinSama]

Yes hoe you've read the title correctly, this topic has been debated for years, I'm hoping with Yhwach's new revisions there'll be an end to this debate.

This goes down gauntlet style.


Win con via Death of the opponent.


Speed is equalized.


R1: Soul King Yhwach, RC isn't restricted


R2: Soul King Yhwach, RC is restricted.

 

[Deceived3596]

Following but Yhwach dicks on the entire verse in both rounds.

 

[Arcker123]

With soul crush wouldn’t Lihiko be the only threat? Yhwach stomped both Misogi and Medaka even before the Almighty upgrades.

 

[Jibz]

“blah blah passively makes characters not want to attack Medaka blah blah”

 

[LordGinSama]

With soul crush wouldn’t Lihiko be the only threat? Yhwach stomped both Misogi and Medaka even before the Almighty upgrades.

Iirc it was vice-versa since they had 4-D abilities at the time while Yhwach only had 3-D.

 

[Arcker123]

Yhwach was dicking on both last time .

(Yes Yhwach with almighty beat up Misogi as evidenced by the agreement and args, It was changed to base when Misogi was losing).

 

[LordGinSama]

The Medaka thread was never concluded it would seem because of the AF 4-D discussion.


Should I ring up some Medaka goons?

 

[Arcker123]

Should I ring up some Medaka goons?

Sure. They’ve all left the wiki tho…

Can the verse interact with NEP? Because if not, it’s just Vanishing Point gg.

 

[Zencha9]

i don't think anything in medaka can do anything to the almighty unless you either bullshit luck or make the verse Low 1-C (Which isn't happening)

 

[LordGinSama]

i don't think anything in medaka can do anything to the almighty unless you either bullshit luck or make the verse Low 1-C (Which isn't happening)

Gimme a few lines of coke and I'll make it happen

 

[Zencha9]

Gimme a few lines of coke and I'll make it happen

you probably need alot more than "few" to make that argument lol

 

[Arcker123]

All fiction infinite speed + seal = gg

 

[Lynieryz]

Humor Contrast (無様な背比べ, Yūmoa Kontorasuto): Be stronger than the enemy skill.
Ajimu solo...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Round 1 obvious stomp, cus nobody in medaka can do anything about RC.

Round 2, idk though, i don't really keep up with Yhwach's weekly CRTs and don't intend to.

 

[Arcker123]

Humor Contrast (無様な背比べ, Yūmoa Kontorasuto): Be stronger than the enemy skill.
Ajimu solo...

Can you give further elaboration here. This is really vague

 

[LordGinSama]

Round 1 obvious stomp, cus nobody in medaka can do anything about RC.

Round 2, idk though, i don't really keep up with Yhwach's weekly CRTs and don't intend to.

Yhwach now has infinite 4-D hax, that's basically it.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Then everyone gets stomped by virtue of, Medaka is hard capped at 3-D for us.

 

[LordGinSama]

Then everyone gets stomped by virtue of, Medaka is hard capped at 3-D for us.

Wasn't it 4-D for All Fiction awhile ago? Or did that get removed?

 

[Purgy]

Can you give further elaboration here. This is really vague

There is no further elaboration lol, the name and description is all that's given, it comes from this

Spoiler

Almost the entire page is just pure NLF, pretty much all of them are never seen, explained or given any form of limitation which is exactly why this rule exists on her profile

Note: Due to the uncertainty regarding Ajimu's tiering, the nature of her abilities, and her portrayal within canon, she should not be used in versus threads.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Wasn't it 4-D for All Fiction awhile ago? Or did that get removed?

It's 4-D, in style of erasure, basically it erases things from the timeline, not because it has 4D potency.

 

[Arkenis]

Would Almighty not just neg? Aijumu has precog but it isn't like she can stop the future from happening or see 2-A like Yhwach and she has time travel but again Yhwach can just pick from countless timelines.

 

[TauanVictor]

Yhwach before the updates already stomped Misogi. I did this match a while ago.

Yhwach stomps on both rounds.

 

[Agnaa]

Sure. They’ve all left the wiki tho…

DT and I still exist.

Can the verse interact with NEP?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Kumagawa can bring back things he himself erased with All Fiction, but he can't just arbitrarily affect any nonexistent thing.

Humor Contrast (無様な背比べ, Yūmoa Kontorasuto): Be stronger than the enemy skill.

Those walls of text aren't used due to contradictions with later actual descriptions of the skills, and contradictions if we take the skills' names at face value.

Can you give further elaboration here. This is really vague

Medaka Box has about ~8 panels which each list 100 skills with short names and brief descriptions. Only 4 of them are ever properly elaborated on later, and those 4 are all nigh-useless.

idk anything about Yhwach but I wouldn't be surprised if he got stomped.

Maybe you could say that Fukurou Tsurubami, Kakegae Yuzuriha, and Doppelgangers copy and overwhelm by virtue of having 3 to 1602 Yhwachs, but I wouldn't be surprised if he had some way around that.

 

[Nanashi]

If Yhwah doesn't get dicked by the guys that @Agnaa listed, then he will be stopping on Ajimu, that has 700 million coppies of herself all over the world and Hanten who can create any skill he wants.

Would Almighty not just neg? Aijumu has precog but it isn't like she can stop the future from happening or see 2-A like Yhwach and she has time travel but again Yhwach can just pick from countless timelines.

Her omniscience probably would bug Allmighty.

 

[Arkenis]

If Yhwah doesn't get dicked by the guys that @Agnaa listed, then he will be stopping on Ajimu, that has 700 million coppies of herself all over the world and Hanten who can create any skill he wants.

Her omniscience probably would bug Allmighty.

is she omniscient at a 2-A level

 

[Nanashi]

What...

 

[Arkenis]

What...

Yhwach's almighty is multi+ which is 2-A. Is her Omniscience on that level or is she only omniscient of one universe?

 

[Nanashi]

I understood the thing, but for me it's quite strange omniscience having this kind of restriction. Well, having in mind what you said, she is omniscient of one universe. Although I don't doubt her omniscience scaling to this level tho, but, anyways, she can't be used in versus threads so we must not take her into consideration here.

 

[Arkenis]

I understood the thing, but for me it's quite strange omniscience having this kind of restriction. Well, having in mind what you said, she is omniscient of one universe. Although I don't doubt her omniscience scaling to this level tho, but, anyways, she can't be used in versus threads so we must not take her into consideration here.

Then they don't get past almighty, Unless they have some other ability

 

[Agnaa]

then he will be stopping on Ajimu, that has 700 million coppies of herself all over the world

Those "copies" aren't actually as powerful as her, and don't have her abilities. She just kind of inhabits them, they're pretty loyal to her and she can talk to them.

and Hanten who can create any skill he wants.

He's way too vague to be useful here. If we just go by what he's known to be able to do canonically, it's just time stop.

is she omniscient at a 2-A level

From the information we have right now, it's just on the scale of one universe.

 

[Nanashi]

Still I don't see how A would manage to deal with All Fiction, this is probably going to be a big incon

 

[ImmortalDread]

Eh, I heard Yhwach got upgrades but which one?

Also link the profiles in OP smh

 

[Purgy]

Still I don't see how A would manage to deal with All Fiction, this is probably going to be a big incon

Pre 4-D Almighty Yhwach already stomped Misogi due to both resisting Causality Manipulation and being able to destroy things in such a way that Causality Manipulation can't reverse it

Resistance to Causality Manipulation (Orihime couldn't bring back the Soul King even through her power to reject past events and causality) -Yhwach has all the resistance of Weakened Soul King on his profile, so this applies to him as well

Causality Manipulation Negation (Yhwach can rewrite the future so that everything he destroys will remain broken in all possible futures, even with Orihime's ability to reject past events and causality she was unable to repair Tensa Zangetsu after it was broken by Yhwach [47])

So All Fiction is pretty irrelevant here

 

[Agnaa]

Only wincon I see left for MB, then, would be bullshit luck. Does Yhwach have any way of dealing with that?

 

[Purgy]

Only wincon I see left for MB, then, would be bullshit luck. Does Yhwach have any way of dealing with that?

It depends on if Yhwach has the Schrifts here as the OP didn't specify, he has a couple forms of probability manipulation of his own in that tab, some of which can make even impossible events as possible though I doubt it's as strong as Medakaverse's

Of course he has broken fate manipulation, not sure how that interacts with luck tbh

 

[Nanashi]

Pre 4-D Almighty Yhwach already stomped Misogi due to both resisting Causality Manipulation and being able to destroy things in such a way that Causality Manipulation can't reverse it

So All Fiction is pretty irrelevant here

I see, I thought he wouldn't manage to deal with AF due to it's conceptual manipulation.
Btw, I still thinking that he can't do shit about All Fiction's conceptual manip. But indeed he would **** up with it's causality manipulation.

 

[Agnaa]

It depends on if Yhwach has the Schrifts here as the OP didn't specify, he has a couple forms of probability manipulation of his own in that tab, some of which can make even impossible events as possible though I doubt it's as strong as Medakaverse's

Of course he has broken fate manipulation, not sure how that interacts with luck tbh

MB's got a few things:

1. Medaka Kurokami (and Iihiko Shishime due to scaling) have:
   • A statement of being able to make a 1 in a million event happen a million times in a row.
   • Their luck is described as being able to make enemy's attacks miss vital areas, cause enemies to spare them on a whim, and to come up with winning strategies in a pinch.
   • Najimi Ajimu believes that she can't win against Medaka. This isn't because of Medaka's skills; Ajimu can trivially nullify all of Medaka's skills, she's just the sort of person who would never lose (the mention of people coming around every 1000 years is an allusion to Iihiko; the first of this group who came up 5000 years ago, and defeated every other person like this since). For emphasis, an 8-B could defeat a 3-A even with zero abilities other than this luck.
   • Their luck is vastly superior to common Abnormals.
     • A common Abnormal, when being dealt a hand of cards by someone who makes nothing stray from their ordinary chances, drew a nigh- perfect hand of 7 cards; the only difference being that one of their cards was a diamond instead of a heart. So ordinary probability nullification wouldn't do much.
2. Zenkichi Hitoyoshi (and Hanten Shiranui due to making the skill, although he'd need to add it to himself first) have the ability to nullify Medaka/Iihiko's luck through Devil Style. It nullifies any coincidence, preventing the whims of fate from interfering with a battle. When Zenkichi used this, Medaka only got 2% of the votes in an election. Earlier in the series, when this ability wasn't up, she got 98% of the votes.
3. Namanie Nienami, Fukurou Tsurubami (and Kakegae Yuzuriha due to being able to transform into anyone, including Nienami) have the ability Contradictory Conjunction.
   • It makes the impossible possible, letting characters defeat opponents stronger than them, and destroying objects too resilient for them to harm, materialising the least probable outcome.
   • Contradictory Conjunction appears to work through Devil Style and Medaka/Iihiko's luck, although the reason for this is unclear.
   • It's more effective the greater the difference in power between the two.
   • We saw it used a few times:
     1. Nienami used it to cut a giant battleship in half. While she did lose that battle, we're later told that if she used the ability to its full extent she would have won, she just decided to use it in moderation.
     2. Fukurou used it to instantly stomp Kamome Tsurubami.
     3. Kakegae, copying Nienami, used it to fight on par with Iihiko, putting them on par speed and strength wise, with each able to dodge/land/tank attacks from each other.
     4. Zenkichi, having borrowed it from Nienami, used it to fight on par with Iihiko, with each able to dodge attacks from each other. While Iihiko was still able to blow off Zenkichi's arm with one attack, Zenkichi was also able to one-shot Iihiko (bottom-right panel).

I see, I thought he wouldn't manage to deal with AF due to it's conceptual manipulation.
Btw, I still thinking that he can't do shit about All Fiction's conceptual manip. But indeed he would **** up with it's causality manipulation.

It achieves concept manip through causality manip, so resisting causality manip is sufficient to negate it.

 

[Arcker123]

I see, I thought he wouldn't manage to deal with AF due to it's conceptual manipulation.
Btw, I still thinking that he can't do shit about All Fiction's conceptual manip. But indeed he would **** up with it's causality manipulation.

How potent is it? Yhwach already has resistance to type 2 concept manip.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I personally think it is incon somehow.

 

[Nanashi]

How potent is it? Yhwach already has resistance to type 2 concept manip.

All Fiction can erase the concept of time, for example. And his resistance to type 2 conceptual manipulation is limited, but I think he may be able to resist most of the effects, since All Fiction didn't provide much feats regarding conceptual manipulation (iirc). By the by, it's not even listed in their profiles what type it actually is, so for me it's quite hard to say, but I guess Type 1 Concept manip. is our best choice here.