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Yhwach The Almighty vs Son Goku (Xeno)
- Thread starter Hellscream
- Start date
- Status
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #202
Because he has them?
why does he have yamamoto's bankai, while he never used it?
It doesn't matter that he didn't use it, the fact remains that he has it.
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Simple
We all fine it interesting to debate how he would use them and some of us actually like debating against a hypothetical Yhwach that would have casual utilize the sternritter powers
Its all to keep the debate lively and the action interesting
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Up to this point.... He has none
He can refuel himself with Reishi as Deceived pointed out but that barely does anything because DD will just continue setting his Stamina back to 1 point below zero over and over again the moment Yhwach stamina reaches at least 2 points below zero. And with dozens of passive stamina hax that all take between 10% to 90% of a targets stamina and all these passive stamina hax acting on Yhwach all at once, he's gonna be SEI and power locked in no time flat and Yhwach still has no 4-D resistance to powernull so DD is negging him
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Yeah but like, there is no point in giving him access to it if he's never ever gonna use it in a battle??
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #206
I don't see how "seal the card actions abilities of the enemy team for one round" is in any way considered as actual powernull, and not just sealing.
From where do the layers even come from btw?
Does it come from a demonic being "sealing the action abilities of the enemy team for one round" of another demonic being?
From where do the layers even come from btw?
Does it come from a demonic being "sealing the action abilities of the enemy team for one round" of another demonic being?
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I don't think that's how it works bro. Pretty sure we don't get to change how they start out with their moves, at all.Simple
We all fine it interesting to debate how he would use them and some of us actually like debating against a hypothetical Yhwach that would have casual utilize the sternritter powers
Its all to keep the debate lively and the action interesting
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #208
If he has it, why couldn't he use it? what kind of argument is that
It's very obvious that he didn't use any of his extra abilities due to bleach being on a time crunch, despite being stated 935983498 times that he has them, just like yamamoto's bankai.
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Yhwach might actually have resistance towards 4-D Power Nullification but i need to ask about a few things before giving a solid answer, but it's currently assumed 3-D, which means DD would bypass that level of resistance.
Also the argument "he didn't use them in the story, which means he'll never use them in a hypothetical battle which isn't written by Kubo" isn't a good argument, it just means he doesn't start off with them, that isn't evidence he'll never use them when you provide further context.
Also the argument "he didn't use them in the story, which means he'll never use them in a hypothetical battle which isn't written by Kubo" isn't a good argument, it just means he doesn't start off with them, that isn't evidence he'll never use them when you provide further context.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #210
unless if people think yamamoto's bankai wouldn't be a good offensive tool to use with the almighty, be my guest.
you can say that he doesn't have his bankai either.
you can say that he doesn't have his bankai either.
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The Main thing Yhwach has going for him is Fate Hax which can ultimately be countered by DD or goku just using Time Travel since its instant and Precog plus Fate Hax aint gonna let you see or manipulate the past. Goku can just visit a point in time Yhwach is vulnerable and beat his ass there or seal him away
And Yhwach has no Acausal 1
And Yhwach has no Acausal 1
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #212
Yhwach was able to see tsukishima, who manipulated the past so that ichigo's bankai could be healed btw, and literally stated that he allowed him to do it.
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If he can't do anything against the dimensional domain, then he can't fight, defend, move, or use ability, since that is the effect of DD. Up to this point, I don't see how Yhwach can win.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #214
Yhwach does have 4-d powernull, as it's tied to his fate hax which i stated multiple times before.
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??? You don't get to change in-character of a character my dude. Literally not how it works. Bring Kubo here to write out a canon-scene of Yhwach EVER using any of these abilities and then we can talk about it. Otherwise, there is no way. And Bleach being on a time-crunch or rush or whatever doesn't mean anything in regards to him using it in-character. So nope.
You'd need to prove their situation is the same, otherwise that'd count as false equivalency. Apples ≠ Oranges. So prove that he can use it in-character or stop it. You LITERALLY cannot argue that something that a character has NEVER ever DONE before in story, can now suddenly start out with these moves as he wishes when he has never ever done so. That's a bit of a ratty argument brodie.
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#1 Yhwach never physically alters the Past
#2 Tsukishima can alter the past but he is still present in the present hence why he can be affected
In this case, Goku is no longer in the present completely and and is in the distant past before Yhwach got the almighty
Does Almighty have implications of working in the distant past before Yhwach ever even gains the almighty?
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I already addressed that handwaving the problem with him not having ever used these abilities doesn't work. Provide evidence that he has used it in the story/in-character or concede.
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funny how this version of Goku would actually resort to something like this
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4-D powernull he does have but Goku resists layered 4-D powernull so moot
And Goku has 4-D layer powernull with keysword while yhwach's powernull resistance is only 3-D going by resistance feats
Stop using powernull as a wincon it wont work till some CTR happens that upgardes Yhwach current feats
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That isn't hand waving, google the actual definition of hand waving before using words you don't understand.
I'm providing context on why he doesn't use them in the story, prove why he would be bounded by that context in a hypothetical match, if you can't evidently prove he would then you'd concede the claim via Burden of Rejoinder.
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Even decieved admits that with Yhwach's current resistance to powernull, even thou conceptual its still 3-D and 4-D powernull's like DD and Keysword Glass Cannon through and Null Yhwach
He says their may be evidence for a 4-D powernull resistance but that's pending confirmation before it can be validly used
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That is handwaving the issue my dude. You're not directly addressing how important the very concept of him not having ever used these abilities, makes it so that him ever using it in a hypothetical match is impossible. We don't get to change his In-character thinking or fighting style, and NEITHER do you. Stop being disingenuous.
Not how it works. Again, prove he can do this in character or concede. No other option buddy. "Prove why he would be bounded" Not my burden? You're the one supposed to prove he would use it in a match. As far as I am concerned, this match isn't a OOC version of Yhwach, so nice try. And shifting burden of proof doesn't work like that either mate. Again drop it. Arguing that he can is just a ratty behavior brodie.
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Bruh.
Him never using them in canon doesn't indicate or imply he'd never use them in a hypothetical battle inherently. You aren't proving why your interpretation of the evidence has more truth-value behind it compared to my interpretation, you're just asserting it is, and that's it. Actually prove why your interpretation has more evidence, is less assumptive etc.
I never said we should/did change his 'in-character thinking or fighting style", i specifically said it isn't in-character for him to use those abilities, i'm just saying it isn't evidence of him NEVER using those abilities while in a hypothetical battle, also don't talk about disingenuous when you're strawmanning my argument right now.
You actually didn't read my post dude, i never made that claim, in actuality, i even said it isn't in character for him to use those abilities, actually read what i'm typing before getting all big chested on shit you aren't knowledgeable on. You're making the positive claim right now, i'm just proving a counter interpretation, you haven't provided evidence for your burden yet.
Also stop questioning my character when you aren't even reading what i'm saying.
Him never using them in canon doesn't indicate or imply he'd never use them in a hypothetical battle inherently. You aren't proving why your interpretation of the evidence has more truth-value behind it compared to my interpretation, you're just asserting it is, and that's it. Actually prove why your interpretation has more evidence, is less assumptive etc.
I never said we should/did change his 'in-character thinking or fighting style", i specifically said it isn't in-character for him to use those abilities, i'm just saying it isn't evidence of him NEVER using those abilities while in a hypothetical battle, also don't talk about disingenuous when you're strawmanning my argument right now.
You actually didn't read my post dude, i never made that claim, in actuality, i even said it isn't in character for him to use those abilities, actually read what i'm typing before getting all big chested on shit you aren't knowledgeable on. You're making the positive claim right now, i'm just proving a counter interpretation, you haven't provided evidence for your burden yet.
Also stop questioning my character when you aren't even reading what i'm saying.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,249
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Just....close this thread
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I'm fine with closing the thread because Yhwach most likely gets stomped from everything I've seen, he doesn't really have a valid wincon that is in-character for him to use while Goku has multiple.
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Im sending this over to All Purpose to be closed then if no one else here has any issues with that
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Wait a minute…is this gonna be Yhwach’s first official loss on his profile?
And it’s given by Xeno Goku of all people?
That’s rough buddy
And it’s given by Xeno Goku of all people?
That’s rough buddy
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I dont think it would be added since its being considered a Stomp since Yhwach has no true wincon as all of them get countered in some way
In other words Goku has many wincons he can take to win and Yhwach does not
In other words..... Stomp Match
Wont get added
Yhwach has lost to other people before lol
Meh...That’s rough buddy
Deceived has upgrades in mind so thats something to look forward to
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #230
Only wincon goku has here is sealing though
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Y'know. I want to put Yhwach against a lesser god from Instant Death.
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https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Standard_Battle_Assumptions This practically shuts down your argument. SBA means they're in-character. Not "hypothetically he would do this" type of shit.
Stop coping. Stop, to put it blunt (no offense) arguing out of your ass like you are doing rn.
And literally knock off with this "positive claim" and "truth value" words you're trying to use with this smart-ass attitude that you're tryna pull off rn. Debate like a normal dude would do. Not in the mood to deal with that shit you're tryna pull off.
"Him never using them in canon doesn't indicate or imply he'd never use them in a hypothetical battle inherently. You aren't proving why your interpretation of the evidence has more truth-value behind it compared to my interpretation, you're just asserting it is, and that's it. Actually prove why your interpretation has more evidence, is less assumptive etc."
A hypothetical battle literally doesn't mean THEY can ******* pull of a move they have never done before dude? It's not a case where Yhwach has used the ability before, but rather: He has never ever used it. A hypothetical battle literally doesn't mean in SBA that their In-character state is now twisted to do shit like using a move they have never used before.
"You aren't proving your interpretation has more truth-value behind it compared to my interpretation" Just use basic deduction skills? Which means: In canon he has never used it, and this match is SBA so it's in character. And hypothetical match-ups doesn't change their In-characrer either so your argument is pretty much null. "You're just asserting it is, and that's it" Talk about somebody that never bothered fully reading what I said. That's crazy. "Actually prove why your interpretation has more evidence" Literally did. Read it above carefully. Use your critical thinking skills that you have along with deduction skills. Don't make a half-assed interpretation of my argument now mate.
"I never said we should/did change his 'in-character thinking or fighting style", i specifically said it isn't in-character for him to use those abilities, i'm just saying it isn't evidence of him NEVER using those abilities while in a hypothetical battle, also don't talk about disingenuous when you're strawmanning my argument right now."
""I never said we should/did change his 'in-character thinking or fighting style",
You might not have directly said it, but you sure as hell are arguing IT. Why else would you act as if it being a hypothetical match suddenly makes the In-character state different now? That's really weird my dude. Don't backtrack buddy.
"i specifically said it isn't in-character for him to use those abilities, i'm just saying it isn't evidence of him NEVER using those abilities while in a hypothetical battle, also don't talk about disingenuous when you're strawmanning my argument right now."
Stop separating these two. And yes, you literally DID argue that it is in character for him. Lemme quote below.
"Also the argument "he didn't use them in the story, which means he'll never use them in a hypothetical battle which isn't written by Kubo" isn't a good argument, it just means he doesn't start off with them, that isn't evidence he'll never use them when you provide further context."
That is as good as saying it is in character for him
Again, stop acting as if this being a hypothetical battle changes anything as to how they'd act in SBA, which means, again, In-Character. " also don't talk about disingenuous when you're strawmanning my argument right now"
Like where? Me quoting what you literally said, along with gathering as to what you have been trying to say? Me literally taking what you blatantly said? Uh huh, If that's strawmanning to you, then I hope you can MAKE it more clear in what you're trying to prove and argue then brodie, because I'm interpreting what you basically said, that seems quite clear in what you're trying to convey.
"You actually didn't read my post dude, i never made that claim, in actuality, i even said it isn't in character for him to use those abilities, actually read what i'm typing before getting all big chested on shit you aren't knowledgeable on. You're making the positive claim right now, i'm just proving a counter interpretation, you haven't provided evidence for your burden yet."
?? If I didn't i wouldn't be quoting you word for word and directly addressing it, would I? That's weird, but go on.
"I never made that claim"
actually you did. crazy... "getting big chested on shit you aren't knowledgeable on"
that's crazy.. "You're making the positive claim right now, i'm just proving a counter interpretation, you haven't provided evidence for your burden yet."
"You haven't provided evidence for your burden yet" You already agree to me saying he has never used them in the story, so no need for it, unless you've never read the story, which i'd then suggest you re-reading it. If this isn't the evidence you're talking about, then you're talking about the "provide evidence he won't use it in a hypothetical battle despite being in-character" aren't you? If so, then it's simple. Like I said above in the beginning of this post: Read what I said, use basic deduction skills and critical thinking skills, along with non-cognitive bias. (Which means to be open-minded and to not half-ass interpret my argument)
If I wasn't reading then I wouldn't be doing a deep analysis like I am doing rn and before. Literally quoting you as well. And, questioning your behavior? I mean, you're doing what you're doing rn. Imagine arguing that hypothetical battle's now somehow changes the In-character state of a character.
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^
I’ve just read an actual scripture about how Yhwach can’t used his accepted abilities in a hypothetical vs battle matchup.
Just take a vacuum and suck the point of putting those abilities on his profile why don’t ya
I’ve just read an actual scripture about how Yhwach can’t used his accepted abilities in a hypothetical vs battle matchup.
Just take a vacuum and suck the point of putting those abilities on his profile why don’t ya
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And Time Travel as Yhwach has no Acausal 1 and Precog and Fate Hax can’t affect the past.
Just kill/seal Yhwach at any point in time before he gets Almighty
And before you bring up the Tsukishima point again….
Almighty HAS NEVER shown capabilities of affect the past (especially a distant part of the past before Yhwach gets almighty to begin with)
And Tsukishima was still PHYSICALLY in the present hence why Yhwach can affect him. Tsukishima can insert himself in the past but he doesn’t actually leave the present and goes back to the past
Goku physically leaves the present in its entirety and goes to the past. Precog and Fate Hax does nothing as neither let’s you see into the past
So time travel is also a valid wincon
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hi^
I’ve just read an actual scripture about how Yhwach can’t used his accepted abilities in a hypothetical vs battle matchup.
Just take a vacuum and suck the point of putting those abilities on his profile why don’t ya
also do you mean you disagree or agree or smth. i didn't really get you.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #236
Im just saying, but giving letting yhwach use the sternritter abilities is automatically OOC
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just curious. are you being sarcastic or you being fr?
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It's a stomp match eh? Oofie.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,784
- 878
- Thread starter
- #239
Please quote the part where i didn't agree with it being out of character.
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If Yhwach has like, no way of winning then ig it really is a stomp.. Well. I don't have any issue with that if it's a stomp.
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