Yami Vs. Gojo (11-4-3) (Grace)

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

 

[Bastolan27]

So Luck has senses that allow him to view an infinite distance? Get ******* real, honestly.

11. Argument from incredulity​

This is similar to the argument from ignorance, except it is based on the fact that the person in question cannot personally believe something.

Example: "DBZ characters are so powerful, I find it hard to believe that there are characters stronger than them."

 

[SunDaGamer]

This is meaningless, being a good sensor doesn't mean you have infinite sensing capabilities. Furthermore that scene was comedic in nature.


If you genuinely think GW is infinite in size then you believe in Tier 2 BC lmfao.

The only statement that gives GW a size is the one that says it's infinite, the fact that you can accept it being Universal but then have issues with it being Tier 2 if it's infinite is confusing.

That's meaningless.

That's literally a statement by the person who created, manipulates and owns the place affirming the idea that GW is infinite, we might as well toss out Gojo's Infinite Void dumping infinite information if a statement like that is meaningless.

 

[BadSystems]

The size of the Glamour World shouldn't be debated here, though. If it's accepted we should take it as fact and if we don't wanna we should try and overturn it in a CRT.

If the idea is manifested into reality it seizes from being idea and turns into reality for example you have a idea of house u want and so u build the house. u can’t interact with the idea but u can with house when’s it’s built this is basically the case with gojo but In a more extreme case

The space Gojo brings into reality isn't like a house u'd build. If the house you built defied architecture and was some kind of abstract plane, sure, but that's not really what Limitless is.

 

[LordGinSama]

Source Chat GPT: "Spans to infinity" typically means that something extends or reaches across an infinite distance or range. It implies a vast and boundless extent or reach.

...... Chat GPT because you can't debate yourself? Your sinking that low huh? Never thought I'd see the day where people resort to using chat GPT for debating lmfao.

No one mentioned the observable universe in the discussion

the observable universe is not infinite in size. The size of the universe is very much finite, as is stated in the tiering page.

Comedy ≠ Not true

If it's done in a comedic sense then it's often considered as flowery language.


Also this isn't argument from Incredulity. I don't see enough sufficient evidence, especially with what your providing. That's not a fallacy in the slightest so I suggest you actually learn how to debate properly.

The only statement that gives GW a size is the one that says it's infinite, the fact that you can accept it being Universal but then have issues with it being Tier 2 if it's infinite is confusing.

Except it's not infinite in size according to her range. It's universal, finite in size.


Universe2.825 QuettaexaFoe to any higher finite number6.752x1082 to any higher finite number2.825x1092 to any higher finite number.

That's literally a statement by the person who created, manipulates and owns the place affirming the idea that GW is infinite, we might as well toss out Gojo's Infinite Void dumping infinite information if a statement like that is meaningless.

Difference is that Gojo's has literal showings and plenty of backings from Databooks and such. Don't @ me with that comparison ever.

 

[BadSystems]

Unlimited Void doesn't give infinite information. It gives an infinite stream of information at the rate of about 6 months worth every fifth of a second.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Come on now, it's not that complicated

Uni range is 3-A and anything that isn't 4-D (Low 2-C). This also includes High 3-A.

Regardless of which, her abilities description mentions her infinite size, so it actually is on her profile (And no, it's not a copy past from the Black Clover Wiki, which doesn't make mention of its size)

 

[BadSystems]

It's hard to say but I'm leaning towards Yami here. I won't vote yet because I'm not sure how space-ripping and smth like Neutral Infinity interact because of what Dr. White is saying, so I'll wait for that to be resolved and stuff before voting. By the way, does Yami go for the kill with Dimensional Slash in character against any random dude?

 

[Bastolan27]

...... Chat GPT because you can't debate yourself? Your sinking that low huh? Never thought I'd see the day where people resort to using chat GPT for debating lmfao.

1. Ad Hominem​

This means "argument against the man, not the point". It is when you rebut an opponent's argument by insulting them instead of their argument.

I used ChatGPT as an unbiased, neutral source in this discussion.

the observable universe is not infinite in size. The size of the universe is very much finite, as is stated in the tiering page.

Universal: 46.6 billion LY and up

• The radius of our observable universe is 46.6 billion LY.
• From here, the distance spans to infinity at that point, as there is no exact end to how far the actual universe spans.

Universal range in this wiki spans from 46.6 billion light-years to any infinite 3D distance, acknowledging that universes in fiction can be infinite.
Again

High 3-A: High Universe level​

Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3-D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those who can affect an infinite 3-D space. This extends to an infinite number of finite or infinite-sized 3-D universes or pocket dimensions when not accounting for when not accounting for any higher dimensions or time. Large numbers of infinite 3-D universes, unless causally closed from one another by a separate spacetime or existence, only count for a higher level of this tier. Being “infinitely” stronger than this level, unless uncountably so, does not qualify for any higher tier.

If it's done in a comedic sense then it's often considered as flowery language.

Often, but not always. This scene is included to explain her powers to the readers.

Except it's not infinite in size according to her range. It's universal, finite in size.

In Range Uni and High Uni are considered the same tier in this wiki.

 

[LordGinSama]

Uni range is 3-A and anything that isn't 4-D (Low 2-C). This also includes High 3-A.

As I pointed out, Universal range does not grant infinite range. The Universe only expands indefinitely over the course of time and there's nothing to imply DW is literal 1:1 with the observable universe.


but fortunately that's all irrelevant as Yami doesnt have Universal range.

Uni range is 3-A and anything that isn't 4-D (Low 2-C). This also includes High 3-A

In some cases, not all cases. Also no, universal range does not cover High 3-A range.


If you want I'll even have calc members to explain that part further.

 

[Epsilon_R]

It's hard to say but I'm leaning towards Yami here. I won't vote yet because I'm not sure how space-ripping and smth like Neutral Infinity interact because of what Dr. White is saying, so I'll wait for that to be resolved and stuff before voting. By the way, does Yami go for the kill with Dimensional Slash in character against any random dude?

He was about to do it against fodder Sekke, just because he disrupted his time on the toilet, now you got an idea

 

[BadSystems]

He was about to do it against fodder Sekke, just because he disrupted his time on the toilet, now you got an idea

Gojo is probably finished unless Yami cuts his arm off or smth with it, in that case he can RCT then Domain or Purple.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Tbf Yami's Slash could get null easily with Lapse Blue since even generic gravity pull from Dante could counter it

 

[BadSystems]

Tbf Yami's Slash could get null easily with Lapse Blue since even generic gravity pull from Dante could counter it

How does a dimension cutting slash get countered by gravity?

 

[Epsilon_R]

As I pointed out, Universal range does not grant infinite range. The Universe only expands indefinitely over the course of time and there's nothing to imply DW is literal 1:1 with the observable universe.


but fortunately that's all irrelevant as Yami doesnt have Universal range.

In some cases, not all cases. Also no, universal range does not cover High 3-A range.


If you want I'll even have calc members to explain that part further.

It obviously does, as there's no range tier given for anything between 3-A and 4-D/Low 2-C, you can still call anyone you want tho

 

[LordGinSama]

I used ChatGPT as an unbiased, neutral source in this discussion.

Yeah sure.

Universal range in this wiki spans from 46.6 billion light-years to any infinite 3D distance, acknowledging that universes in fiction can be infinite.
Again

Universal range is not infinite range. The Universe isn't infinite in size, it just expands indefinitely over time.

Often, but not always. This scene is included to explain her powers to the readers.

and the explanation is not legitimate.

 

[Bastolan27]

Yeah sure.

Universal range is not infinite range. The Universe isn't infinite in size, it just expands indefinitely over time.

and the explanation is not legitimate.

universes in fiction can be infinite.

 

[BadSystems]

Guys we aren't supposed to debate the size of the Glamour World here. If the profile says it's infinite it is infinite for the sake of this discussion. If that should be overturned it should be done on a CRT pls

 

[LordGinSama]

It obviously does, as there's no range tier given for anything between 3-A and 4-D/Low 2-C, you can still call anyone you want tho

It obviously doesn't, you aren't reading it correctly. The Universe can have an infinite radius if the universe is given time to indefinitely expand, the universe does not start off with an infinite size. It's finite that increases indefinitely over time.


@Armorchompy and @DontTalkDT can explain this much better.

 

[LordGinSama]

Guys we aren't supposed to debate the size of the Glamour World here. If the profile says it's infinite it is infinite for the sake of this discussion. If that should be overturned it should be done on a CRT pls

It's not infinite since her range contradicts it.

 

[Epsilon_R]

It obviously doesn't, you aren't reading it correctly. The Universe can have an infinite radius if the universe is given time to indefinitely expand, the universe does not start off with an infinite size. It's finite that increases indefinitely over time.


@Armorchompy and @DontTalkDT can explain this much better.

Omg, you know what go ahead and ask them because I'm getting fed up

 

[Joshyyy_64]

It's not infinite since her range contradicts it.

Do a CRT then. But with all do respect, this is Gojo Vs Yami, not how large is glamour world. No reaching and coping here please.

Ppl, cast your votes and explain why if you want. Thanks

 

[BadSystems]

It's not infinite since her range contradicts it.

I don't think something like this counts for range, and if it does, the rating may just be a mistake on the part of the supporters considering infinite-sized is on the page as well as universal range. From what's being said here, I guess they thought Uni range includes infinite distance?
I checked the wiki page they sent and the size isn't mentioned there so it's definitely an addition here. I think it's just fair to use it.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Voting Yami, if not an utter stomp in the first place

 

[SuperStar]

Counted

 

[Bastolan27]

I asked three staff members about the universal and infinite range.

 

[BadSystems]

Voting Yami, if not an utter stomp in the first place

Only if Dimension Slash instantly kills Gojo. Remember he can still TP away from it once it gets past where infinity typically stops stuff, considering it is speed equalized. Not to mention that once Gojo realizes that his regular hits can't reach Yami, he'd opt for either Purple (void manip) or DE (info manip), both of which are wincons.

 

[LordGinSama]

Okay let me explain something to you.


By default, the universe has a set size and does not start off infinite in size. It's finite but expands indefinitely over time, the default is not the universe being infinite in size. It starts off with a set number and then continues to expand indefinitely over time.


No typical universe is infinite in size, they're all finite that expand over the course of eon's indefinitely.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Only if Dimension Slash instantly kills Gojo. Remember he can still TP away from it once it gets past where infinity typically stops stuff, considering it is speed equalized. Not to mention that once Gojo realizes that his regular hits can't reach Yami, he'd opt for either Purple (void manip) or DE (info manip), both of which are wincons.

Dark magic: Black hole
Dark magic: black moon

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Okay let me explain something to you.


By default, the universe has a set size and does not start off infinite in size. It's finite but expands indefinitely over time, the default is not the universe being infinite in size. It starts off with a set number and then continues to expand indefinitely over time.


No typical universe is infinite in size, they're all finite that expand over the course of eon's indefinitely.

Make a CRT after this

 

[BadSystems]

Dark magic: Black hole
Dark magic: black moon

How do those help? They just extend the range / absorb attacks, which won't really work on Domain Expansion.

 

[LordGinSama]

Make a CRT after this

I'll let Clover handle that. I don't need to make a CRT since she only have Universal range which is not infinite.


If anything you guys should be the ones to make a CRT. Because right now she has Universal range based on an infinite range statement whereas the two do not share the same set range by default.


Literally the main supporter of the Verse Clover is also confused on her Universal range whenever from how it explained to me it should be infinite. So yeah, that's not on me to fix.

 

[Bastolan27]

Confirmed, her range is indeed infinite.
https://vsbattles.com/members/armorchompy.4554/#profile-post-comment-103903

 

[LordGinSama]

Confirmed, her range is indeed infinite.
https://vsbattles.com/members/armorchompy.4554/#profile-post-comment-103903

Yeah no, you didn't ask that question properly.

 

[Dr._whiteee]

Confirmed, her range is indeed infinite.
https://vsbattles.com/members/armorchompy.4554/#profile-post-comment-103903

You did not, you just confirmed the scale of the universal tier.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Clover isn't WoG nor he is the only main of the Verse, Arnold is there too

 

[Bastolan27]

Yeah no, you didn't ask that question properly.

How so? Your argument is that universal range cannot be infinite. And that was Debunked

 

[LordGinSama]

Clover isn't WoG nor he is the only main of the Verse, Arnold is there too

With all due respect he's a much better scaler for the verse than you are. I've already said that Arnold is a good debater for the verse as well, keep crying.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

3-A or universal range on wiki merely describes range that can reach the observable universe inherently. Aka unless a character is specified to have infinite range, we do not assume that “universal range” equates to infinite range. Also, expanding in perpetuity is not the same as possessing an infinite size. I can have a 3 m ball that is expanding in perpetuity at a rate of 1 nm per trillion years, and that does not all of a sudden make that 3 m ball infinite.

 

[LordGinSama]

How so? Your argument is that universal range cannot be infinite. And that was Debunked

He literally said no.