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Scaling Lifting Strength to Catching Punches

Sir_Ovens

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It has recently come to my attention that we allow the calculation of lifting strength gathered through catching the force of a punch. This thread will mostly be to clear the air and confirm if the former is true, as to my knowledge, a punch is a single strike, and catching it would be durability, not lifting strength.
 
It has recently come to my attention that we allow the calculation of lifting strength gathered through catching the force of a punch. This thread will mostly be to clear the air and confirm if the former is true, as to my knowledge, a punch is a single strike, and catching it would be durability, not lifting strength.
Where did you read that it was allowed?
 
The way I see measuring lifting strength based off a punch is if it’s a punch from let’s say a large size character or a formation of a certain substance in the form of a punch. Depending on the punch, if it’s contextually meant to be a feat of lifting strength noted as such in the series, then it should definitely be calced and accepted. Like we wouldn’t give Naruto lifting strength based on if he stopped Raikages punch or if he stopped Sasukes right? Those characters would likely be packing much more force from the energy they use rather than the force of the punch itself. Idk if that’s confusing lol
 
The way I see measuring lifting strength based off a punch is if it’s a punch from let’s say a large size character or a formation of a certain substance in the form of a punch. Depending on the punch, if it’s contextually meant to be a feat of lifting strength noted as such in the series, then it should definitely be calced and accepted. Like we wouldn’t give Naruto lifting strength based on if he stopped Raikages punch or if he stopped Sasukes right? Those characters would likely be packing much more force from the energy they use rather than the force of the punch itself. Idk if that’s confusing lol
The feat in question is from RWBY, specifically Yang Xiao Long stopping the punch of the Atlesian Paladin, which has a calculated punch force of Class M tons, with her bare hands by pushing back against the force of the punch
 
I feel weird about taking a Tier 9 feat and getting a Class M LS from it. Usually energy and force aren't treated as a 1:1 ratio in most stories.

If they have feats within that ballpark its fine to use, but if everything else is worse by a notable amount then I think we should look over that.
 
I've felt something was very, very wrong with that calculation for a while now, but I couldn't find what it was. But after that comment and looking over this calc, I think I see the problem.

You're using an AP method to find LS via stopping that AP.

This isn't a calc about the weight or speed of the Paladin. It's solely a destruction calc, but instead of using the destruction to find AP, you're stopping a step early and just running with that as fully applicable for lifting feats, such as stopping.

That RWBY calc, specifically what it is trying to accomplish, implies that you can find the newton force of any attack on the wiki, which is true. The requirement to get LS is newton (force), and energy is just force over a distance, so by dividing out the distance, you can find the actual newton value behind any attack that we rate with Tons of TNT. The issue arises, however, when you realize how non accurate this method is.

Let's take a feat like Invincible (TV show) and stopping a meteor. He is rated as class M for stopping the meteor, which has a calculated weight based on its size. Taking that size, the KE of the rock was also found at 8-A. Now lets use Weekly's method. By the logic that any newton force can be found from any energy equation, you can find that, via the KE of that meteor, the newton force Invincible experienced was around 100x what he is rated as, though still Class M.

Heck, lets take a My Hero Academia feat for instance. Aoyama Yuuga can shoot out and withstand, without moving, 6.76 tons of tnt. The Newton force being exerted on his body is high-end Class M, yet he can blast his laser off without budging an inch. Is Aoyama all of a sudden Class M due to withstanding the Newton force on his body?

Essentially, using this method will demonstrably give vastly higher results than what any other currently used LS method would likely give. Even Weekly's calc does this, he just stopped before getting the AP. Doing so gives nearly, but not quite, 9-A energy (precisely, 0.0046 tons of tnt), but the newton force itself is Class M.

This is just another example like using KE to find speed. Using AP to find LS via stopping AP shouldn't be allowed.

By agreeing to this method of scaling, we agree that ANY AP calculation is viable to be a lifting feat.
 
I've felt something was very, very wrong with that calculation for a while now, but I couldn't find what it was. But after that comment and looking over this calc, I think I see the problem.

You're using an AP method to find LS via stopping that AP.

This isn't a calc about the weight or speed of the Paladin. It's solely a destruction calc, but instead of using the destruction to find AP, you're stopping a step early and just running with that as fully applicable for lifting feats, such as stopping.

That RWBY calc, specifically what it is trying to accomplish, implies that you can find the newton force of any attack on the wiki, which is true. The requirement to get LS is newton (force), and energy is just force over a distance, so by dividing out the distance, you can find the actual newton value behind any attack that we rate with Tons of TNT. The issue arises, however, when you realize how non accurate this method is.

Let's take a feat like Invincible (TV show) and stopping a meteor. He is rated as class M for stopping the meteor, which has a calculated weight based on its size. Taking that size, the KE of the rock was also found at 8-A. Now lets use Weekly's method. By the logic that any newton force can be found from any energy equation, you can find that, via the KE of that meteor, the newton force Invincible experienced was around 100x what he is rated as, though still Class M.

Heck, lets take a My Hero Academia feat for instance. Aoyama Yuuga can shoot out and withstand, without moving, 6.76 tons of tnt. The Newton force being exerted on his body is high-end Class M, yet he can blast his laser off without budging an inch. Is Aoyama all of a sudden Class M due to withstanding the Newton force on his body?

Essentially, using this method will demonstrably give vastly higher results than what any other currently used LS method would likely give. Even Weekly's calc does this, he just stopped before getting the AP. Doing so gives nearly, but not quite, 9-A energy (precisely, 0.0046 tons of tnt), but the newton force itself is Class M.

This is just another example like using KE to find speed. Using AP to find LS via stopping AP shouldn't be allowed.

By agreeing to this method of scaling, we agree that ANY AP calculation is viable to be a lifting feat.
That is how force is calculated yes

Not sure why you're arguing that KE is involved though when theres no ke in that calc
 
I feel weird about taking a Tier 9 feat and getting a Class M LS from it. Usually energy and force aren't treated as a 1:1 ratio in most stories.

If they have feats within that ballpark its fine to use, but if everything else is worse by a notable amount then I think we should look over that.
That's the point yes, it's not using energy, only force, and it's one of over a dozen feats in that ballpark range
 
That is how force is calculated yes

Not sure why you're arguing that KE is involved though when theres no ke in that calc
Yeah, and I'm saying that using it to scale LS isn't something you should do. Did you not see my examples? The sudden inflation in LS upgrades that can occur due to this logic of any AP calc being a potential feat for Lifting Strength?

I'm saying that using the mass of the Mech itself would be a better way to find Lifting Strength. Not using an AP method to scale the force you calculated it punched at in that instant to Yang stopping it. Most if not all LS calcs I've seen take into account the weight of objects themselves, not what an object can destroy.

Also, I see that a bunch of debating about this happened in the Discord. BRB, gonna go read and see if anyone agreed or disagreed with your method before you claim they did with no context.
 
Yeah, and I'm saying that using it to scale LS isn't something you should do. Did you not see my examples? The sudden inflation in LS upgrades that can occur due to this logic of any AP calc being a potential feat for Lifting Strength?

I'm saying that using the mass of the Mech itself would be a better way to find Lifting Strength. Not using an AP method to scale the force you calculated it punched at in that instant to Yang stopping it. Most if not all LS calcs I've seen take into account the weight of objects themselves, not what an object can destroy.

Also, I see that a bunch of debating about this happened in the Discord. BRB, gonna go read and see if anyone agreed or disagreed with your method before you claim they did with no context.
I saw the examples but dont see how theyre accurate comparisons to the feat in question. If a character was able to push back a hydraulic prss that can crush concrte they'd scale to is, why would the same not apply here?

And a lot of people agreed with my side actually, even when given context
 
Normally catching a super strong punch would be durability and lifting strength realistically, but I do not think there is a way to calculate lifting strength without getting into calc stacking territory. So it's best to just consider it durability, but it could scale to striking strength in some circumstances.
 
It should handled cass by case but, example time!:
Let's say character A has stellar lifting strength, he is facing character B.
If A punches B, and B pushed away. Good, nothing happens [it could scale his dura and etc etc]
But
If A punches B, and B catches A's punch, and got pushed backwards but he managed enough force to push A's punch, then he would scale to A's lifting strength
 
Ok but what if we delve into the realm of tier 2 and above. Would someone who catches a Low 2-C's punch have immeasurable Lifting Strength?
 
images
 
That man has the ability to make everyone get attracted to him
No matter what
He is tier 0
Ban him-
Sorry for the drail
 
lol i dont even know who he is or where the meme originated from but you right im actually derailing now
 
Normally catching a super strong punch would be durability and lifting strength realistically, but I do not think there is a way to calculate lifting strength without getting into calc stacking territory. So it's best to just consider it durability, but it could scale to striking strength in some circumstances.
Sorta agree, but in cases where Character A's AP (For different feat) and lifting strength (Via lifting some car or building or stuff) have different values for different things and Character B can catch Character A's punch (Or counter it with his own) then they engage in a wrestling match with their fists like in some anime and games (Where they push each other's fists to assert dominance, like here), then I'd say both AP, striking strength and LS scale in full.

Alternatively, if a character blocks a punch from a massive building-sized fist and both the AP of the building and mass are calculated separately from each other by catching it and resisting its pushing power like in typical wrestling, I'd say the character's AP scales to the building-sized fist's AP and the LS scales to the building-sized fist's mass. Like in the case of stopping a speeding car/train dead in its tracks.

EDIT: Orange ******* ninja'd me. ****.
 
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Normally catching a super strong punch would be durability and lifting strength realistically, but I do not think there is a way to calculate lifting strength without getting into calc stacking territory. So it's best to just consider it durability, but it could scale to striking strength in some circumstances.
ATM the feat in question is a calc of a punch crushing a block of stone, which was calced to have Class M forc
 
It should handled cass by case but, example time!:
Let's say character A has stellar lifting strength, he is facing character B.
If A punches B, and B pushed away. Good, nothing happens [it could scale his dura and etc etc]
But
If A punches B, and B catches A's punch, and got pushed backwards but he managed enough force to push A's punch, then he would scale to A's lifting strength
Ah **** you beat me to it.
 
If they were able to resist it's force, and got slightly pushed by it, then pushed back? Yes
Eh, Tier 3 and 2 can get a little fucky here. Or rather, Tier 6 and beyond.

But it should be fine to scale to Character A's calculated lifting strength if they have any at the very least.
 
Ok but what if we delve into the realm of tier 2 and above. Would someone who catches a Low 2-C's punch have immeasurable Lifting Strength?
Assuming the Low 2-C himself has shown proper Immeasurable lifting strength feats, yes.

If not, then no.

Again, the characters need to have some solid LS feat to them that was separate from their AP feats or was calculated as such.
 
Eh, Tier 3 and 2 can get a little fucky here. Or rather, Tier 6 and beyond.

But it should be fine to scale to Character A's calculated lifting strength if they have any at the very least.
I mean, it gets really lucky when you reach immeasurable stuff, and then people with infinite speed and immeasurable strength is another fuckotary on it's own
But the premise stays the same, if both of you engage in any physical conflict that requires pushing, stopping [even redirecting]them your lifting strength would be greatly involved
 
Assuming the Low 2-C himself has shown proper Immeasurable lifting strength feats, yes.

If not, then no.

Again, the characters need to have some solid LS feat to them that was separate from their AP feats or was calculated as such.
Stop making sense
but yes
Actually there is some other scenario
Let's
Say
A has lifting strength [doesn't matter the value in most cases]and pushed B, but B didn't budge or move, normally this would just be your average ranking attacks but
If B got slightly pushed by the Puinch, then stopped getting pushed by applying more strength, he would in a way scale to A lifting strength
 
Tho tbh
Fiction usually treats you blocking a punch and not getting your punched moved
Let's say A punched B, B catches A punch [doesn't matter if he catches it with his eye lashes or buttcrack], A punch got stoped, a d A pushed with all of his force against B, and B didn't move or slightly moved and stoped, it would scale to his lifting strength too
Shouldn't this also be in lifting strength page? There are many examples and yet people don't get lifting strength from it which is strange tbh
 
Tho tbh
Fiction usually treats you blocking a punch and not getting your punched moved
Let's say A punched B, B catches A punch [doesn't matter if he catches it with his eye lashes or buttcrack], A punch got stoped, a d A pushed with all of his force against B, and B didn't move or slightly moved and stoped, it would scale to his lifting strength too
Shouldn't this also be in lifting strength page? There are many examples and yet people don't get lifting strength from it which is strange tbh
That's cause this is the first time this sort of thing is being addressed in a CRT to most of our knowledge, so nobody bothered to think about that lol
 
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