𝓦𝓸𝓻𝓵𝓭 𝓸𝓯 𝓜𝓪𝓰𝓲𝓬 𝓕𝓲𝓷𝓪𝓵𝓮; 𝓣𝓱𝓮 𝓢𝓣𝓡𝓞𝓝𝓖𝓔𝓢𝓣 𝟨-𝐵 𝓜𝓪𝓰𝓮: 𝓜𝓪𝓼𝓱 𝓑𝓾𝓻𝓷𝓮𝓭𝓮𝓪𝓭 𝓥𝓢 𝓛𝓮𝓢𝓱𝓪𝔂 (1-4-0)

[AnAverageUsername]

Fair, ig, but you certainly seem to imply he lacks layers to work with.

Ah yes, layers. Yeah that's a thing that wasn't really elaborated on... Oh, I just remembered something interesting. While not exactly similar to charm gaze from Leshay, there's this character named Abyss in Mashle who was put under a dark curse deep in the story. This dark curse basically hijacked his mind, turning into a killing machine, yet was able to overcome it somewhat through mental fortitude, who Mash should scale over in this regard due to being explicitly stated to excel in that area through training. Somethings that's neat.

Meeting their gaze. If he's blind, he's probably fine.

I'd say Mash could fight with his eyes closed actually. I mean he can instinctively react to threats when his brain his disconnected from his body, he'd probably do it better if his brain wasn't. He was also able to dodge a series of sword slashes from this character named Kaldo Gehena without being allowed to look up, left, or right if he didn't want to lose the game of "you look you lose" he was challenged to, but the art is a bit inconsistent and makes it look like Mash does look in those directions so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Ah yes, layers. Yeah that's a thing that wasn't really elaborated on... Oh, I just remembered something interesting. While not exactly similar to charm gaze from Leshay, there's this character named Abyss in Mashle who was put under a dark curse deep in the story. This dark curse basically hijacked his mind, turning into a killing machine, yet was able to overcome it somewhat through mental fortitude, who Mash should scale over in this regard due to being explicitly stated to excel in that area through training. Somethings that's neat.

resistance to mind and curse manipulation but no layers.

I'd say Mash could fight with his eyes closed actually. I mean he can instinctively react to threats when his brain his disconnected from his body, he'd probably do it better if his brain wasn't. He was also able to dodge a series of sword slashes from this character named Kaldo Gehena without being allowed to look up, left, or right if he didn't want to lose the game of "you look you lose" he was challenged to, but the art is a bit inconsistent and makes it look like Mash does look in those directions so take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah this could work.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

resistance to mind and curse manipulation but no layers.

And this is supposed to be a Shonen magic series!

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

And this is supposed to be a Shonen magic series!

Do you have something?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Do you have something?

Not looking

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Couldn't Mash fight instinctively under a spell?

Again, I pointed out above, if he's fully willing to slaughter his allies despite holding them as friendly, then that's fine and not much can be done. Otherwise, the second he sees the LeShay's eyes, his ass is charmed and the fight is functionally over. Even if the LeShay then wanted to kill him, since he has no significant resistance, the LeShay could simply continue to meet his gaze, incapacitating him every time. Not that I believe the average LeShay would do that, they aren't bloodlusted by default or anything, but I don't see how Mash is escaping this. Instinctual fighting relies on his instincts, which in this case are friendly towards the LeShay.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Ah yes, layers. Yeah that's a thing that wasn't really elaborated on... Oh, I just remembered something interesting. While not exactly similar to charm gaze from Leshay, there's this character named Abyss in Mashle who was put under a dark curse deep in the story. This dark curse basically hijacked his mind, turning into a killing machine, yet was able to overcome it somewhat through mental fortitude, who Mash should scale over in this regard due to being explicitly stated to excel in that area through training. Somethings that's neat.

I'd say Mash could fight with his eyes closed actually. I mean he can instinctively react to threats when his brain his disconnected from his body, he'd probably do it better if his brain wasn't. He was also able to dodge a series of sword slashes from this character named Kaldo Gehena without being allowed to look up, left, or right if he didn't want to lose the game of "you look you lose" he was challenged to, but the art is a bit inconsistent and makes it look like Mash does look in those directions so take it with a grain of salt.

"could" or "typically does", is the thing. The OP doesn't provide foreknowledge of the mechanics of the ability, so there's no reason why he'd do that unless he defaults to fighting with his eyes closed which, based on how the conversation has continued thus far, I doubt is the case. Furthermore, eyes closed then comes to further problems- the LeShay has the advantage on being able to use all of their senses, and is skilled enough to capitalize on that and overcome such a significant AP difference when given such a great advantage.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Does the charm affect the conscious or subconscious level?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Does the charm affect the conscious or subconscious level?

Subconscious.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

"could" or "typically does", is the thing. The OP doesn't provide foreknowledge of the mechanics of the ability,

I mean unless its considered mid to high hax

so there's no reason why he'd do that unless he defaults to fighting with his eyes closed which, based on how the conversation has continued thus far, I doubt is the case.

He doesn't, though it has been stated up above that Mash's muscles will warn him of threats or dangers. If this is the case, would it be so far fetched for Mash to rely on his instincts?

Furthermore, eyes closed then comes to further problems- the LeShay has the advantage on being able to use all of their senses, and is skilled enough to capitalize on that and overcome such a significant AP difference when given such a great advantage.

Yeah, maybe, but again, Mash's senses are great enough that even if his eyes are closed or if he can't see where his attacks are coming from, he can still react and counter

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So the question here is will Mash close his eyes before being affectedby the charm?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He doesn't, though it has been stated up above that Mash's muscles will warn him of threats or dangers. If this is the case, would it be so far fetched for Mash to rely on his instincts?

The charm itself isn't really a threat- as has already been said, LeShay aren't traditionally out to kill, the charm helps them avoid that. I don't know the exact mechanics of his abilities, but if its specifically like, things that intend to harm him, then I'd say no.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

The charm itself isn't really a threat- as has already been said, LeShay aren't traditionally out to kill, the charm helps them avoid that.

Mmm, yeah, I can understand this. Yet, as pointed out below, could this be the case here?

I don't know the exact mechanics of his abilities, but if its specifically like, things that intend to harm him, then I'd say no.

Basically, his muscles warn him of what power his opponent could possess even if said opponent isn't out to fight at that moment. Wacky muscles.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"could" possess? Is it not exact?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

"could" possess? Is it not exact?

I like saying could

 

[AnAverageUsername]

But for a more thourough answer, It is indeed exact. The moment I'm talking about is when Margarette is walking away and is exclaiming that she's looking forward to the next test, and then one of Mash's muscles warn him of Margarette and that she's dangerous.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

But for a more thourough answer, It is indeed exact. The moment I'm talking about is when Margarette is walking away and is exclaiming that she's looking forward to the next test, and then one of Mash's muscles warn him of Margarette and that she's dangerous.

This isn't really evaluate-able info, man- this ability would need to work the instant he was aware of the enemy (not just in their presence), it would need to give actionable intel that tells him the specifics of the danger (in this case, that he needs to fight blind the entire time), and it would need to work even on foes that don't intend to hurt him if it can be helped.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This isn't really evaluate-able info, man-

Hey, I'm just giving stuff out and the explanations. That's just how it's told unless you wanna happily read the series yohohoho

this ability would need to work the instant he was aware of the enemy (not just in their presence), it would need to give actionable intel that tells him the specifics of the danger (in this case, that he needs to fight blind the entire time), and it would need to work even on foes that don't intend to hurt him if it can be helped.

Well I'm assuming both parties are aware of each other here. Cause the rules in the OP say that each fighter know of each others appearance and any potential mid to high hax. And reading over that OP, the fight starts 10KM apart and out of line of sight, though I am guessing Leshay kinda closes that gap.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well I'm assuming both parties are aware of each other here. Cause the rules in the OP say that each fighter know of each others appearance and any potential mid to high hax. And reading over that OP, the fight starts 10KM apart and out of line of sight, though I am guessing Leshay kinda closes that gap.

Yeah, which is why I clarified "not just their presence"- dude needs to know how they operate before they're in the vicinity of the LeShay, otherwise the charm is going to work and the fight is over. LeShay's teleportation stuff can cover anything in the Prime Material Plane (that is, the universe).

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah, which is why I clarified "not just their presence"- dude needs to know how they operate before they're in the vicinity of the LeShay, otherwise the charm is going to work and the fight is over.

Quick question, do you know how I can find the hax page that sorts stuff from low to high?

LeShay's teleportation stuff can cover anything in the Prime Material Plane (that is, the universe).

DnD is wacky, lol

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Quick question, do you know how I can find the hax page that sorts stuff from low to high?

I don't know what you mean

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I don't know what you mean

There's a page that goes over the level of hax, whether it's "low" up to something like "very high"

 

[Mr. Bambu]

There's a page that goes over the level of hax, whether it's "low" up to something like "very high"

Yeah I have no idea what you're referring to

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Yeah I have no idea what you're referring to

Had to get an Imgur link from another thread because I can't remember the page name. It's this stuff.


So what would you consider the charm gaze to fall under?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Had to get an Imgur link from another thread because I can't remember the page name. It's this stuff.


So what would you consider the charm gaze to fall under?

I don't think that's any official thing? I've never seen that, at least.

Per those definitions, probably Mid, depending on the context? Maybe High.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

I don't think that's any official thing? I've never seen that, at least.

Per those definitions, probably Mid, depending on the context? Maybe High.

Yeah see that's why I'm confused a bit. I've seen it spread around as official and it has the look of an official page, but I don't know where it comes from. But if we go by what you think of the chart, the charm gaze would be known about beforehand. Yet, I'm very hesitant to use it due to the aforementioned uncertainty.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Are you talking about this?

General Hax Tier List Discussion

Based on this! So with the vast amount of Hax that exist on this wiki, not all of them are equal Rules Here, we will be ranking the haxes on a tier list ranging from Low to Godly, with each tier having their own Low, Mid and High categories Types and Aspects of Haxes will be ranked separately...

vsbattles.com

 

[Robo432343]

Bruh dnd has 50 layers

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Bruh dnd has 50 layers

D&D has variable layers. DC 10 is considered baseline, and any number over 10 is x - 10 layers higher, since something that would resist the layer below, wouldn't resist that.

The LeShay's gaze has a whopping DC 53, meaning it has 43 layers.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The win will depend on Mash closing his eyes before being affected, otherwise he lose.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The win will depend on Mash closing his eyes before being affected, otherwise he lose.

The OP doesn't really afford this (unless this can be considered dangerous) and the abilities of Mash also don't seem to give immediate, actionable knowledge like that. And then again, even if he does, that just leads to a new, secondary discussion: it's not really a guaranteed thing that Mash wins if he begins fighting with his eyes closed.

From what I can tell of his page, he's primarily a melee fighter, which is not so for the LeShay, who are traditionally portrayed with mainly ranged weapons (although technically they can flip between ranged and melee on a whim). His profile mentions "projectiles" but it seems to be like... just throwing shit, which is harder to aim, when he isn't actually looking. Even with enhanced senses, that's a disadvantage and a half against someone with the LeShay's stealth.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

To compare their fighting skill
can you give some CQC feats of LeShay?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Trained military officers fall within CR 1/8. The best mortal warriors in an infinite multiverse fall within CR 12. The default LeShay is CR 28. Stat gains like this tend to be linear.

Another metric you might judge by is the +hit modifier, which can be a useful metric. A guard statblock (containing that aforementioned officer) has a +3. Those mortal champions have a +9. The default LeShay has a +53.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Trained military officers fall within CR 1/8. The best mortal warriors in an infinite multiverse fall within CR 12. The default LeShay is CR 28. Stat gains like this tend to be linear.

Another metric you might judge by is the +hit modifier, which can be a useful metric. A guard statblock (containing that aforementioned officer) has a +3. Those mortal champions have a +9. The default LeShay has a +53.

I should get into D&D.

can you give some actual feats like dodging multiple projectiles while cooking...

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I should get into D&D.

can you give some actual feats like dodging multiple projectiles while cooking...

the **** kinda feat is that lmao

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

the **** kinda feat is that lmao

A very skilled chef who is also a martial artist.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

the **** kinda feat is that lmao

If you think that is crazy
Arifureta:

An human, who in verse is just decently skilled, is able to act perfectly normal while having his senses sealed (btw this character is unable to use magic or any supernatural power, so this is completely a pure skill feat). Acting without a sense or various senses is somehing consistent through the verse, with characters like Chris (who thanks to his battle honed instincts can dodge invisible spatial attacks), Vanessa (who had her eyesight robbed by a flashbang and even so could move in a room full of armed men), Gahard (who can not only defend against the ranged attacks of 120 Haulia from all directions with just the sound of the attacks alone while in complete darkness, but he can also do the same while having both his sight and hearing impaired due to the effects of flashbangs) or Detref (who could fight without any problem inside a fog with magical effects that affect the senses of the enemies inside), it's also said how just third-rate warriors relied just in their sight in a fight, and there are several more examples of situations of people fighting without be able to rely on their senses, some of which will appear in following scans.

Normal humans, humans unable to use any unique energy or supernatural power, can also do some extreme martial and acrobatics feats with high level of precision. Like for example the ones displayed in the fight between Kimberley and Allen (btw, the Berserkers mentioned are mutants created with a virus which transform people in strong monsters that can't die unless their brain is destroyed and who have potent regeneration), the fight of Vanessa vs Berserker Monkeys, the Allen vs Weiss, when Allen helped Taeko against demons and possessed fanatics (the demons were creatures invisible, that Allen couldn't sense nor perceive or even interact in any way and he only knew they were there, while the possessed fanatics were people with higher specs due to be possessed), when Sabas fought against the soldiers of the futuristic empire, in the whole Fukube vs onmyoujis fight (the onmyoujis were humans able to use special powers, that additionally summoned fantasy creatures called shikis which are basically monsters with some special trait), or the casual Ulfrick vs Altina fight (elfs in the verse don't have magic or any special power, so besides their longer lives and beauty they are just normal humans) there is also how Liliana (a princess that never in her life had physical combat training) mastered Aikido from internet videos which is a decent martial feat. While not actually a martial or acrobatic feat, there are some good precision feats from childs, like the first time Myu used a weapon (Myu had 6 years and this was like two weeks after meet Hajime and become his foster daugther) or Par who sniped apostles from 5km below (Par is a 10 years old child).

The verse also have show groups with high skill regarding warfare, as show with the Haulia clan when they annihilated the demon forces that invaded the Haltina forest (the same demon forces that almost killed a completely serious Ulfrick if the Haulia didn't saved him, the same Haulia that Gahard single handedly fought for several minutes before fall from strong poison). Canonically the Yaegashi clan (a group of completely normal humans) is comparable with the Haulia clan and each have show to share and learn from the other clan, the Yaegashi clan is considered the leader of the ninja clans and each member have deathly daily training regardless of their age or occupation, are a group that can casually try to kill Hajime, and who have defeated the elite forces of multiple countries who attacked the Returnees families (which should had had the level of characters like Allen, Fukube and even Sabas).

(some links don't work)

 

[Mr. Bambu]

If you think that is crazy

I didn't say crazy, I implied stupid, shit don't impress me smh

mechanically, yeah, the LeShay would be fine blocking any attack while surprised (such as whilst cooking) while continuing to cook, from that aforementioned Champion (CR 12 guy). It would be essentially impossible for him to hit the LeShay.

the issue is that you're looking for anime presentation in a game that expects you to make the fight scenes- there's lore about fights, but mostly everything with explicit representation comes from secondary sources- books, video games, movies, etc. The LeShay is a minor ass character in the verse, even though they possess important lore implications- you surely will see essentially nothing about them from these secondary lore sources, with the exception that the Moonshae Isles of the Forgotten Realms possesses them as major members of government.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

while continuing to cook, from that aforementioned Champion (CR 12 guy). It would be essentially impossible for him to hit the LeShay

I'm talking about projectiles from characters that can ricochet bullet +10 times and shoot something through a needle from 10Km.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

the issue is that you're looking for anime presentation in a game that expects you to make the fight scenes- there's lore about fights, but mostly everything with explicit representation comes from secondary sources- books, video games, movies, etc. The LeShay is a minor ass character in the verse, even though they possess important lore implications- you surely will see essentially nothing about them from these secondary lore sources, with the exception that the Moonshae Isles of the Forgotten Realms possesses them as major members of government.

Can we at least scale CR 1/8 to real life soldier, any real life superhuman skill feats between CR 9 and 12 and any feat impossible in real life as higher